liberation from full time seeking

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:24 am

Could it be that the silence is the "right" answer? :)
Yes, not such a far fetched idea ☺
Would you say the pull to seek is getting weaker? Although you're still trying to make life easier for yourself?
It is not entirely clear to me. Maybe it’s gotten a bit weaker when I think about seeking in general. I'm not as excited anymore about a Rupert Spira retreat I've booked for August. When it comes to the LU process, there is still a lot of curiosity and drive to continue.
Do you still believe effort is necessary to see what is here now? Do you trust what you see or does it seem this can't be it?
Seeing what is here now without a specific question that I need to focus on does not require effort. I trust the sensations, feelings and thoughts to be real. Conclusions about whether I am the doer, the witness, or whether I don’t exist at all feel a lot less certain.

Is in your experience the idea that there is no self, and no doer and no witness as real or true as the fact that there are sensations, feelings and thoughts?

Even before I started the process the notions of free will and the existence of a self seemed suspect of philosophical and neuroscientific grounds. Now I’ve had some experiences that support the idea that there is no self and no control on a more embodied level. But overall it doesn’t feel like the belief in “no self” is a whole lot different from other beliefs I have. It feels more like that given what I’ve seen and thought “no self” seems to be more likely than “self”. It doesn’t feel like 100% certainty and doesn’t feel that different from other beliefs I have. It also doesn’t feel like some non-conceptual understanding of a deep truth that is beyond thought. Maybe the only part that feels a little bit like beyond thought is that thought itself isn’t taken as serious than before. When thoughts that start with “I” come up in my mind, I question the “I” and see whether feelings and thoughts have to be taken personal and usually they don’t and not many “I” thoughts have been coming up recently. It feels like I’ve acquired a few new habits in the last two weeks.

I can’t with certainty deny that this isn’t it. It could be it.

It doesn’t feel like such a big deal yet and there is the hope that there’s more to it. I can’t quite get away from over 20 dialogues I read in Ilona’s book where people seemed to have strong reactions. One guy said – “no big deal - I wouldn’t recommend it.” Maybe I’m that guy. Or I haven’t seen it yet. Even though I’d still recommend what I’ve seen so far.
Do you expect *this* to become a different kind of *THIS*? More than it is now? Better, more spiritual, lighter, more enlightened, blissful?
“Life is just happening. There is nobody doing anything. There is no separation with life and others” doesn’t seem to be a description of how I experience most of my days.

Generally it feels like I am doing things and like I’m the author of my life and like there are other people that are separate from me.

In a looking session I might have periods where it feels like my body is doing things by itself or where it feels clear that thoughts arise by themselves or where it feels like perceiving something is just perceiving without perceiver or perceived object. I guess I expect these points of view to be more readily available in daily life or quickly accessible when I look for them.

If I had to describe my hopes at the moment it would be an end of seeking and a sense that life is happening and that it is ok to “choose” one path or another as ultimately there is no choice and life will happen as it has to happen. That there is no “I” that needs to achieve great things, or find the one perfect path – there are many enjoyable games in life to be played.

I believe something has already happened here. There is some lightness writing it down. The hope is that this can be seen more fully.

To have the hope list complete there is some hope to feel more of the lightness or joy that sometimes arose in the looking process over the last two weeks. This may not happen and is not the benchmark I use at the moment when I’m thinking: “I’m not there yet”.

Writing these hopes down they seem bigger than I expected them to be - good to have them in front of me. I know they may not come true.

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Canfora
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Canfora » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:39 pm

I'm not as excited anymore about a Rupert Spira retreat I've booked for August.
I've bought his books after crossing the gate. They're so detailed! I couldn't finish them. Haven't felt the pull to see his talks for a long time.
When it comes to the LU process, there is still a lot of curiosity and drive to continue.
Good to know!
Is in your experience the idea that there is no self, and no doer and no witness as real or true as the fact that there are sensations, feelings and thoughts?
Well, to be honest I don't think about these subjects anymore. Let me try to answer your question. You're talking about experiencing the idea that there is no self as being real or true. To me the question implies a previous experience where the idea was real or true. Yes, I never questioned if a separate self was real before finding LU, so I can say before LU I experienced thinking that I was a self. But nowadays I don't go about everyday life experiencing a improved, new, enlightened "there is no me" way of thinking. Although I'm 100% certain that I am not a separate self the thinking is very very similar to how it was before seeing. And that's ok. I don't know if I answered your question or not. Let me know if I didn't.
Even before I started the process the notions of free will and the existence of a self seemed suspect of philosophical and neuroscientific grounds. Now I’ve had some experiences that support the idea that there is no self and no control on a more embodied level. But overall it doesn’t feel like the belief in “no self” is a whole lot different from other beliefs I have. It feels more like that given what I’ve seen and thought “no self” seems to be more likely than “self”. It doesn’t feel like 100% certainty and doesn’t feel that different from other beliefs I have. It also doesn’t feel like some non-conceptual understanding of a deep truth that is beyond thought. Maybe the only part that feels a little bit like beyond thought is that thought itself isn’t taken as serious than before. When thoughts that start with “I” come up in my mind, I question the “I” and see whether feelings and thoughts have to be taken personal and usually they don’t and not many “I” thoughts have been coming up recently. It feels like I’ve acquired a few new habits in the last two weeks.
Can you please describe HOW you question the "I"? What do you do exactly?
It doesn’t feel like such a big deal yet and there is the hope that there’s more to it. I can’t quite get away from over 20 dialogues I read in Ilona’s book where people seemed to have strong reactions. One guy said – “no big deal - I wouldn’t recommend it.” Maybe I’m that guy. Or I haven’t seen it yet. Even though I’d still recommend what I’ve seen so far.
It is very likely that every time you look you see basically the same. You would see it in Africa and you would see it in Alaska too. You are seeing - for lack of a better definition - life. And you are also it. Do you expect to see something else?
“Life is just happening. There is nobody doing anything. There is no separation with life and others” doesn’t seem to be a description of how I experience most of my days.

Generally it feels like I am doing things and like I’m the author of my life and like there are other people that are separate from me.
Sure. Same here.
In a looking session I might have periods where it feels like my body is doing things by itself or where it feels clear that thoughts arise by themselves or where it feels like perceiving something is just perceiving without perceiver or perceived object. I guess I expect these points of view to be more readily available in daily life or quickly accessible when I look for them.
Ah, this isn't about stabilize and stay in and prove to be true ONE point of view. It's about putting all points of view to the side and look. Looking is readily available in daily life or quickly accessible when you look. Points of view shift all the time. The point of view you had as a small kind is long gone and the one you have now is going to change also.
Writing these hopes down they seem bigger than I expected them to be - good to have them in front of me. I know they may not come true.
At the time being they are adding fuel to the illusion fire. Who knows what will happen? Maybe you will find that you don't care as much as you did before about having good experiences. Maybe you will start to appreciate a larger broad of feelings and sensations. Unpleasantness also has it's place in life, even if we have other preferences.

Take care,
C

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:14 am

Hi Canfora,

Thank you.
Well, to be honest I don't think about these subjects anymore. Let me try to answer your question. You're talking about experiencing the idea that there is no self as being real or true. To me the question implies a previous experience where the idea was real or true. Yes, I never questioned if a separate self was real before finding LU, so I can say before LU I experienced thinking that I was a self. But nowadays I don't go about everyday life experiencing a improved, new, enlightened "there is no me" way of thinking. Although I'm 100% certain that I am not a separate self the thinking is very very similar to how it was before seeing. And that's ok. I don't know if I answered your question or not. Let me know if I didn't.
That answered my question. Thanks.
Can you please describe HOW you question the "I"? What do you do exactly?
When some thought like "I have to do ..." "I want ..." comes up, I either ask "what is "I'?" "Can "I" be found anywhere?" usually the answer is silence. Or I just focus attention on the "I" for a while, usually it dissolves after a while into nothingness. If the "I" thought was emotionally charged then often the emotion feels lighter or disappears when the "I" is gone. The frequency of "I" thoughts showing up has been decreasing.
Ah, this isn't about stabilize and stay in and prove to be true ONE point of view. It's about putting all points of view to the side and look. Looking is readily available in daily life or quickly accessible when you look. Points of view shift all the time. The point of view you had as a small kind is long gone and the one you have now is going to change also.
I've heard the idea that this is not about a particular belief or point of view before. Ilona's book even contains the statement "all beliefs are wrong". I don't really know what this means. In conventional logic and use of language it would seem to be an absurd claim. Maybe it points towards something beyond logic. Practically, guides seem to point towards specific insights (or "beliefs") like "nobody is in control", "life is happening", "there is no self" through their questions.

I think I do understand what looking is and looking is what I'm trying to do.

Best,
Sebastian

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:32 am

It is very likely that every time you look you see basically the same. You would see it in Africa and you would see it in Alaska too. You are seeing - for lack of a better definition - life. And you are also it. Do you expect to see something else?
I don't expect x-ray vision or anything like that :)
Yes, I expect that there will be sensations, feelings and thoughts wherever I go.
I interpreted the claim that there will be a "perception shift" as meaning that sensations, feelings and thoughts might be seen differently. Maybe this has already happened.

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Canfora
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Canfora » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:46 pm

Hi Sebastian,
When some thought like "I have to do ..." "I want ..." comes up, I either ask "what is "I'?" "Can "I" be found anywhere?" usually the answer is silence.
It seems to me you're mainly thinking instead of looking. Questions are all about thinking!
Do you also look for an I? Using the eyes, using the senses? Do you see what is here? Do you see what isn't here?
Or I just focus attention on the "I" for a while, usually it dissolves after a while into nothingness.
What is this I you focus attention on? Can you describe it for me?
If the "I" thought was emotionally charged then often the emotion feels lighter or disappears when the "I" is gone.
How do you know the I is gone?
Is the I something that comes and goes?
The frequency of "I" thoughts showing up has been decreasing.
Do you think that when the thinking about the I is very frequent that means the I is real?
I've heard the idea that this is not about a particular belief or point of view before. Ilona's book even contains the statement "all beliefs are wrong". I don't really know what this means.
It probably means believes are just beliefs until they become facts. And since facts can also become beliefs we can say they may be wrong. I suppose it's just an invitation to not trust mind too much and keep looking with fresh eyes.
In conventional logic and use of language it would seem to be an absurd claim. Maybe it points towards something beyond logic. Practically, guides seem to point towards specific insights (or "beliefs") like "nobody is in control", "life is happening", "there is no self" through their questions.
Guides have to say something :)
I wouldn't say guides point to specific insights. We point to THIS sight. The one that is here now, in front of your nose, surrounding you. That is the only sight you have to see to check if a real self can be found or not.
I think I do understand what looking is and looking is what I'm trying to do.
I'm not sure you understand. It's very likely that you are dismissing what looking is because... well... you've been doing it all your life and it's a very simple, plain thing to do. Looking is looking. It's seeing. If you look for a pen you know when you find it. There it is, in plain sight and you can even touch it and use it. Simple. If a self is real you have to be capable to see it, just as you can see everything else that is here.
I interpreted the claim that there will be a "perception shift" as meaning that sensations, feelings and thoughts might be seen differently. Maybe this has already happened.
Would you say sensations, feelings and thoughts are what makes you you? It may feel like that, but what is this you then?

Take care,
C

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:19 am

Hi Canfora,

Last night I did the exercises imagining spoons, kitchens, unicorns and then looking and seeing that they were never real. When I then looked for the self something shifted. Since last night I don't feel seperation anymore, there is a feeling of oneness with whatever I look at. There is a sense of awareness being boundless. It seems very likely to me now that this is it. Thank you so much for your guiding!

I'm not sure if it's helpful to answer the questions you asked yesterday about what I used to do when looking. Last night I checked whether the self can be seen, heard, tasted, touched or smelled and it wasn't there when I looked and I actually felt convulsions going through my body for 30 seconds. After that I looked through the room and checked whether there is any seperation with the objects in the room and there was none.

But just to keep things orderly:
It seems to me you're mainly thinking instead of looking. Questions are all about thinking!
Do you also look for an I? Using the eyes, using the senses? Do you see what is here? Do you see what isn't here?
Yes, from todays perspective it seems clear that questions didn't do the trick.
Last night I used my senses
What is this I you focus attention on? Can you describe it for me?
I focused attention on the "I" in the thought that was coming up. The "I" that the voice in my head had said.
When I do this today I have to smile when I bring my attention to the "I" that the voice uses. It feels very light, like it's just floating away in the sky.
How do you know the I is gone?
Is the I something that comes and goes?
The voice wasn't always talking about "me", "I" or "my". I meant that when I focused attention on the "I" that had just been said that it would dissolve into silence.
Do you think that when the thinking about the I is very frequent that means the I is real?
No, the "I" is not real. I still don't dare to call it certainty since it has only happened yesterday and the process so far has been very nonlinear, but today it feels clear (or highly likely) that there is no self.
It probably means believes are just beliefs until they become facts. And since facts can also become beliefs we can say they may be wrong. I suppose it's just an invitation to not trust mind too much and keep looking with fresh eyes.
Ok, thank you. That makes more sense to me now!
I'm not sure you understand. It's very likely that you are dismissing what looking is because... well... you've been doing it all your life and it's a very simple, plain thing to do. Looking is looking. It's seeing. If you look for a pen you know when you find it. There it is, in plain sight and you can even touch it and use it. Simple. If a self is real you have to be capable to see it, just as you can see everything else that is here.
Yes, now it seems clear how looking for a pen (or spoon) works.
I had been spending a lot of time listening to thoughts, questions and the silence after them.
Would you say sensations, feelings and thoughts are what makes you you? It may feel like that, but what is this you then?
No, there's no "me" here right now.

Best,
Sebastian

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Canfora
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Canfora » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:49 pm

Hi Sebastian,
Last night I did the exercises imagining spoons, kitchens, unicorns and then looking and seeing that they were never real. When I then looked for the self something shifted. Since last night I don't feel seperation anymore, there is a feeling of oneness with whatever I look at. There is a sense of awareness being boundless. It seems very likely to me now that this is it. Thank you so much for your guiding!
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh................. I'm divided between feeling happy for you and thinking that you still think this is about experiencing oneness!
I'm not sure if it's helpful to answer the questions you asked yesterday about what I used to do when looking. Last night I checked whether the self can be seen, heard, tasted, touched or smelled and it wasn't there when I looked and I actually felt convulsions going through my body for 30 seconds. After that I looked through the room and checked whether there is any seperation with the objects in the room and there was none.
Yes! Wonderful!
Yes, from todays perspective it seems clear that questions didn't do the trick.
Last night I used my senses
Yay!
I focused attention on the "I" in the thought that was coming up. The "I" that the voice in my head had said.
When I do this today I have to smile when I bring my attention to the "I" that the voice uses. It feels very light, like it's just floating away in the sky.
Lovely.
Yes, now it seems clear how looking for a pen (or spoon) works.
I had been spending a lot of time listening to thoughts, questions and the silence after them.
Yes! Wonderful that you notice that.

Dear Sebastian I'm not going to have time to write here until next Friday. I suggest you keep looking, if possible outside your house, in the street, among nature.

If you want to, keep writing a post every day, letting us know how things are going for you. I'll read them all Friday.

If the present clarity seems to go away, if doubts start to pop up, if the thinking goes into "this can't be it" mode, that would be what we call shifting. Shifting between your usual way to relate to existence and a new way of seeing things. Shifting is normal and very common, so don't worry. It can take a while to get the hang of looking. New tools require patience and practice.

Some questions to keep you going if and when you feel the pull to answer them. There is no need to answer them all in a day, take your time with them:

  • How does it feel to see this?

    Has anything changed on the outside? are any changes in ordinary every day activities?
    Does it feel different inside?

    How would you explain this to someone that never heard of this?

    Is seeking still here?
Until Friday,
C

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:32 am

Hi Canfora,

ok thank you. I'll just post here once a day until you return.

Maybe the answer to the questions will be refined in the course of the week.
How does it feel to see this?
I feel light, relaxed and there is a feeling of aliveness or joy. Looking at what is feels effortless. If I've been engaged in a thought intensive activtiy for a a while and am not sure whether I still clearly see, it only takes a moment to go through the senses and check and it is clear that there is no self that can be experienced through any of them. The feeling of aliveness used to come up in the past (before starting LU) when I focused attention on the sentence "I am" or asked "Am I aware?", now it comes up when I look at a flower or my water bottle.
Has anything changed on the outside? are any changes in ordinary every day activities?
Does it feel different inside?
Not much has chagned on the outside. Things do feel different on the inside.
Talking to friends and having discussions it feels like there is not much emotional investment in a particular position in the argument, no defensiveness, more relaxation.
When desires come there is less pressure to take actions to satisfy them. It's something like "Yes, that would be nice now, but it would also nice to keep sitting here and watch the trees". Nature has become more interesting. There's no seperation.
Is seeking still here?
The feeling of "I need to get this" is gone. It feels like I don't urgently need more spiritual retreats/books/practices. I've spent some time with the Bahiya Sutta that I found in Ilona's book. It feels incredibly clear and beautiful. This raises some curiosity to look at more descriptions of this. I've also seen the power of looking and there are probably other unfounded beliefs that can be looked at. But it doesn't feel like this has to be done now - it just feels like it might be fun to explore more.

Today I wanted to do some more looking and since I've done pretty much all questions and experiments I found in Ilona's books and dialouges I went to the recommended books list and read the first few chapters of Greg Goode's - "The Direct Path" because it was meant to contain a lot of experiments. It started with a lot of "you are awareness" "you are the witness" claims and theorising. I didn't feel any desire to engage with that. Maybe there will be a time for that, but I felt the clear desire to go out and look for myself, and some aversion towards being told what "I" am. Tomorrow I'll go on a hiking trip and see what looking at nature will be like.

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:33 pm

Today I went hiking. Overlooking the scenery and feeling no seperation felt intense and nature seemed vivid. Otherwise most of the day everything felt pretty normal. In the evening I had some heat exhaustion and there was a headache and nausea but no story about it. There were a few moments where I was wondering whether " there is no 'I' " or "I am everything" is a better description of the experience - what is clearest about it is that there is no separation.

Inquiring about the self I had sometimes a little bit of doubt. The clearest part of the experience is that there is no separation. But then this is a sensation or a feeling in a way - so I wondered whether I'm still missing something when I'm partially depending on taking a sensation or feeling at face value. When I look I can also not find anything between me and what is seen, so maybe it's more than just a feeling.

When the question "Is there a self?" comes up I don't feel like there's much to say about it. I go and look, go through the senses, see that there's only seeing, hearing, feeling, touching, tasting and no self in any of them, then I usually feel oneness / no seperation, and the question looks like just a question.

Having read through dialogues in which people scream out "of course, there's no self! how could there ever been one!" I wonder whether there's still some clarity missing. I don't feel like I have much to say about the self.

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:09 am

Hi,

Today I did some of Greg Goode's exercises around seeing and hearing that deepned the experience of not being seperate from what is seen and heard. I had some more intellectual discussions with friends and there again was little emotional investment in opinions and no strong desire to convince others. Seeking is still gone.

Best,
Sebastian

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Canfora
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Canfora » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:54 pm

Hi Sebastian,

Thank you for your posts. It seems to me there is lots of clarity in them! Hope you're feeling better. You've been busy but you've also been looking, well done. I love Greg Goode's - "The Direct Path", I've also read it after crossing the gate. Presently I don't feel the pull to do those kind of experiences anymore. I guess that could be because I've been guiding for a long time.
Inquiring about the self I had sometimes a little bit of doubt. The clearest part of the experience is that there is no separation. But then this is a sensation or a feeling in a way - so I wondered whether I'm still missing something when I'm partially depending on taking a sensation or feeling at face value. When I look I can also not find anything between me and what is seen, so maybe it's more than just a feeling.
What do you think is still missing?
And what is missing that something?
Can the thinking mind miss something that is real? (this is a strange question, but I'll keep it).

Let's say a strong emotional reaction would appear when discussing with someone. Do you think that could happen because you're probably still an I or because you're probably missing something? Or are strong sensations and feelings also part of the "no separation" that encompasses all that can happen?

Take care,
C

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:09 pm

Hi Canfora,

Good to have you back :)
What do you think is still missing?
When I look now there's seeing, hearing, sensing and thinking.
"what is missing right now?" nothing is missing right now. It's not a feeling of lack or of longing.
If I rephrase it as "what has not been fully understood yet? what has been overlooked?"
There is seeing and I can't see what I haven't noticed yet. There's hearing and I can't hear what I haven't noticed yet. Sensing and I can't sense what I haven't noticed yet. And the question "what has been overlooked?" appears in thought.

There is a fairly strong conviction that there is no separation and that a perceiver can't be found in looking, hearing, sensing, thinking. There isn't the impulse or the same conviction to say something about the self. It's reading the descriptions of others that walked through the gate and inferring that they seem to have had a high conviction when asked about the self, that is making me wonder whether there is seomething that I have overlooked.
And what is missing that something?
"Missing" was meant to indicate that something has not been understood. Understanding happens or doesn't happen. Something falls into place or doesn't. I haven't done a direct experiment about understanding today, but memory is filled with examples where insights struck at unexpeted moments and clarity replaced confusion. Understanding seems to be a process that is particularly suitable for the image of things happening by themselves in ways that are hard to predict. Nobody is understanding and nobody is not understanding this ("missing this"). I am a bit surprised that I feel fairly comfortable with this statement (not much doubting in this moment).
Can the thinking mind miss something that is real? (this is a strange question, but I'll keep it).
Thoughts could tell different stories about what is seen, what is heard, what is sensed and what is felt.
Thoughts that don't accurately describe what is real can arise. The content of thoughts might misrepresent what is real.
It seems that the "thinking mind' can miss something that is real.
Let's say a strong emotional reaction would appear when discussing with someone. Do you think that could happen because you're probably still an I or because you're probably missing something? Or are strong sensations and feelings also part of the "no separation" that encompasses all that can happen?
Strong sensations and feeings are also part of the "no separation" that encompasses all that can happen.

The standard explanation that I would have given strong emotions that may come up in the discussion of a seemingly impersonal topic is that there is attachment or identification with some belief to an extent that a criticism of the belief triggers emotions as if "I" was under attack making the impersonal personal again. In the long run I would expect that if the self is no longer believed in that these reactions fall away. In the short run I don't expect wonders. But i was positively suprised that it seems like there is already less reacting now.

Best,
Sebastian

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Canfora
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Canfora » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:57 pm

Hi Sebastian,

Thank you for your answers! Are you 100% sure the separate self is an illusion? Do you have any doubts?

Take care,
C

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Saibo
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Saibo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:39 pm

Hi Canfora,

I'll post something I've written this morning even though it already looks a bit different now, but maybe it can illustrate some of the shifting that is going on:
Thank you for your answers! Are you 100% sure the separate self is an illusion? Do you have any doubts?
There are still regular moments of doubt. I find it hard to say that I am 100% sure of this. In this moment I am very confident - in other moments less so.

There is also the thought that the investigations that I have been doing in the last few weeks have asked me to suspend long held beliefs and look at fundamental assumptions about the self and the existence of an external reality of separate objects. Maybe this makes me weary of claiming that I am 100% sure of anything.

I’ve re-read something Ilona wrote about looking: “The only thing to understand is that looking is not about understanding. It’s about recognition.”

I still seem to have the expectation that being 100% sure involves the content of thoughts to change. That words and thoughts like “Of course there has never been a self, it’s obvious” will come and be expressed.

When an “I”-thought with emotional content comes up and I go and look for the “I” in seeing, hearing, sensing, then something shifts towards lightness and relaxation. That happens fairly consistently. The Bahia sutta works pretty much every time I read it.

When I think of the existence of Santa then thoughts of the form “of course there has never been a Santa” arise and I’m perfectly confident to express them. It is understood by the thinking mind that the story of Santa does not correspond to reality. It seems like the thinking mind hasn’t fully aligned itself with the recognition of looking when it comes to the question whether there is a separate self.

Best,
Sebastian

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Canfora
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Re: liberation from full time seeking

Postby Canfora » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:36 pm

Hi Sebastian,

Thank you for your post and honesty!
It seems like the thinking mind hasn’t fully aligned itself with the recognition of looking when it comes to the question whether there is a separate self.
How would this ^ look like in terms of experience?
Would it be similar to this?:
That words and thoughts like “Of course there has never been a self, it’s obvious” will come and be expressed.
Does that mean that when you look you can't already see there isn't a self in sight?
Isn't it obvious that you can't find a self right now?

Regarding thoughts... why should they shift into something different? If a self is an illusion, doesn't that mean the thinking was, is and will be impersonal - even if it doesn't feel like that?

Notice the thinking process. How do thoughts come, in bundles or one after another, one at a time?

Notice that thoughts come and go by themselves. They are just thoughts, like clouds in the sky. And there is nothing that controls them, they roll one after another and there is no way to stop or get rid of them. Like a river that is running freely.

Look at thoughts:

Where do they come from?
Can you control them?
What influences thoughts?
Do you know what your next though is going to be?
Can a thought be stopped in the middle?
What do you know for sure?

Take care,
C


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