Answer

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Ratchet
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Answer

Postby Ratchet » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that to mean there is no conductor, no I or me running the show

What are you looking for at LU?
To see through the illusion of a seperate self . To see there is no seperate self making life happen. I’m hoping someone can show me that and release me from the pain of believing there is a me who is conducting life

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I’m hoping that someone can help me through this blockage I feel. I seem to know there really isn’t a seperate self making decisions and feeling, thinking ect, but for some reason I cannot for the life of me see this as true. Even though my gut feeling is there isn’t anyone. I’m hoping a guide can help me see that

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Many years of meditating. Read many books and have read liberation unleashed. I’ve spent way to much time on this not to have seen the truth. So I’m very confused

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Canfora
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Re: Answer

Postby Canfora » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:10 pm

Hi Ratchet,

Welcome to the LU forum! I'm Canfora and I'm going to be your guide if that's okay with you.
I seem to know there really isn’t a seperate self making decisions and feeling, thinking ect, but for some reason I cannot for the life of me see this as true.
What is your idea of what seeing is?

What do you do to see something?

Let's say it is true there isn't a self at all. And you realize this fact. What are you expecting to see?

Please answer all the above questions as best as you can - don't worry with giving the right answer, just write what comes up.

Looking forward to our conversation,
C

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:14 pm

Hi C,
Thank you very much for replying, really appreciate it.
My idea of seeing is seeing that there is no me making all these decisions, there is no me thinking or feeling or doing anything. It’s just happening.
To see something, I assume you look. I’m always looking but I come up with nothing.

I have no idea what I’m expecting to see. I don’t think anything will change the only difference will be there won’t be a me seeing. If that makes sense.

i will do anything to wake up from this illusion.

R.

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Hi C,
Have I not answered correctly?

R

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Canfora
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Re: Answer

Postby Canfora » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:56 am

Hello! I'm so sorry for keeping you waiting! I didn't had access to a computer yesterday. It's very unlikely that I spend a day without answering but it may happen. My weekends have the tendency to be more busy and unpredictable than weekdays.
My idea of seeing is seeing that there is no me making all these decisions, there is no me thinking or feeling or doing anything. It’s just happening.
To see something, I assume you look.
Yes, and how do you look? Try to describe what you do.
I’m always looking but I come up with nothing.
I assume that you are looking right now. What do you see? Give me just a simple description of what surrounds you.
I have no idea what I’m expecting to see.
Okay.
I don’t think anything will change the only difference will be there won’t be a me seeing. If that makes sense.
It seems to me you are saying that the difference will be there won't be a me seeing?
Your sentence implies there is a me seeing right now.

Can you find this me that is suppose to be seeing? Do you see a me right now? Have a look.
i will do anything to wake up from this illusion.
Why? What are your motivations?

Take care,
C

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:10 am

Hi C,
I’m typing this from phone, so it’s not easy. Hoping to have a new laptop in a couple of weeks.
At the moment I have quit my career and headed bush. Things didn’t turn out how planned and I’ve ended up a bit stuck. But have job interview today.
So I’m very serious about seeing this as I have been searching for nearly 20 years and I’ve had enough of coming up with nothing.
Looking involves just sitting and listening to the birds and watching the river flow. I watch my thoughts and just sit really. I seem to be able to appreciate the present moment until the mind starts worrying about tmrw or the past.
Yes there still seems to be a me looking and listening. There seems to be times when it’s all quiet and peaceful but nothing special. I don’t understand why I cannot see through this illusion. But that’s what I do all day sit and listen and watch.
Hopefully I answered your question correctly.
R

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:11 am

Sorry I missed part of your question.
Yes there is a me seeing now.

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Canfora
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Re: Answer

Postby Canfora » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:22 am

Hi Ratchet,
I’m typing this from phone, so it’s not easy. Hoping to have a new laptop in a couple of weeks.
Okay, thank you for letting me know. I'll try to keep it focused and simple.
At the moment I have quit my career and headed bush. Things didn’t turn out how planned and I’ve ended up a bit stuck. But have job interview today.
So I’m very serious about seeing this as I have been searching for nearly 20 years and I’ve had enough of coming up with nothing.
Good luck with the job interview!
Looking involves just sitting and listening to the birds and watching the river flow. I watch my thoughts and just sit really.
Okay.
I seem to be able to appreciate the present moment until the mind starts worrying about tmrw or the past.
Maybe you think this exploration will make you more able to stay focused in the moment? Practice and focus could probably achieve that goal on the long term but that as nothing to do with what we are doing here.

Getting lost in thoughts and feeling unpleasant emotions is in the scope of what we call human experience. It happens. Just like the self illusion.
Yes there still seems to be a me looking and listening.
Sure. Same here. That's the illusion.
There seems to be times when it’s all quiet and peaceful but nothing special.
You are hoping something special will happen? it may happen or it may not happen. The goal isn't to reach a specific experience, a special experience. It's seeing what is here just as it is. Thinking what's going on is something special or something pretty ordinary will seem to override what can be seen. And that's okay. Because what is here now is always available to be seem, regardless of what we think about it.

Have you notice how our perception of life is ever changing? While life itself has the tendency to keep coherent and mostly stable?
Hopefully I answered your question correctly.
Don't worry! You are doing fine.
Yes there is a me seeing now.

Good! Can you describe that me please?

Take care,
C

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:39 am

I’ve past the drug and alcohol test, just reference check and I should get job. Fingers crossed.

You know you wouldnt believe how hard it is to answer the question you asked. Trying to describe the me seeing now is not easy. It seems there’s only a me when I think about it. At first I was going to reply well it feel like it’s behind my eyes, but that’s not completely true. Sometimes I wonder if I even have s head. It’s quite interesting when you get into it. Need to spend more time on this.

I agree life seems stable, it’s us who are changing.
I’ll spend tomorrow on your question of the me seeing now. It’s a very good question.
Thanks C
R

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Canfora
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Re: Answer

Postby Canfora » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:02 pm

You know you wouldnt believe how hard it is to answer the question you asked. Trying to describe the me seeing now is not easy.
Eheh... is it like trying to describe an unicorn? ;^)
Maybe it can´t be describe because... it simply isn't here now?
Have a look. Do you see a you?
I agree life seems stable, it’s us who are changing.
Consider the possibility that you are as much *life* (whatever that may be) as anything else.
I’ll spend tomorrow on your question of the me seeing now. It’s a very good question.
Wonderful! Try not to think to much about the answer. Seriously. Thinking is not the right tool to do this. The goal is to SEE (with the eyes, with the senses) if a self is something real or if the I is as imaginary as Santa Claus.
I’ll spend tomorrow on your question of the me seeing now.
Okay!

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:01 am

Hi C,
It’s quute strange, when I look and see if there is a me seeing I come up blank. There doesn’t seem to be an answer. Or at least I carnt find one.
Trying to describe what me is seeing is like trying to describe what awareness is. I cannot describe. The only thing I can say is it feels like a me is seeing. It seems to be a feeling.
Hope I’m on the right track and haven’t gone off into my own interpretation of your question.
I feel like I’ve been brainwashed into believing there is a me.
Kind regards
R

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Canfora
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Re: Answer

Postby Canfora » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:54 pm

Hi R,

Think about an unicorn or Santa Claus or Harry Potter or a pink elephant.

When you think about what you chose to think about, does it seem to be real?

Does the feeling that it is real make it real?


Now think about you - the separate self, R.

Does it seem to be real?

Does the feeling that it is real make it real? Or is the feeling only a feeling?


Now look around you. Don't think, look. Try to find a real *what you chose to think about*. Can you find it?


Then try to find a real you - the separate self, R. Look around you. Don't think, look. Can you find it?

Yes, it feels that you are a separate you. Does that mean a you is real? Can you see it, hear it, touch it, taste it, smell it? Do you find any evidence of its existence? Don't think, look. Can you find it?

Is there any difference between feeling a pink elephant is real and feeling R is real?

Have fun exploring!

Take care,
C

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:48 pm

C,
Spent all day yesterday moving. Will get back to you later today.

R

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Canfora
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Re: Answer

Postby Canfora » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:37 am

Okay

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Ratchet
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Re: Answer

Postby Ratchet » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:00 am

Hi C,
I haven’t been slack, no reception here and hasd wait for wi fi passcode. All good.
Yes when I think about what choose to think about it does seem I chose to think it.
Dors the feeling that it seems real make it real . I’m not sure on this question.

Yes the seperate self does seem real.
But I’ll be honest it does just feel like a feeling as you suggested. It could also just be an assumption as I’ve believed this for many many years. I sometimes feel it an assumption.
To be honest trying to find a real what I choose to think about is sus as whatever I look at thought comes up, I don’t seem to have say in what I think about. Whatever I look at is named, no choice in the matter, under investigation.
No I carnt touch, smell or see a me and I’ll be honest especially recently there have been a few times there hasn’t been a me at all when I sit and just listen and watch and it peaceful but then I start thinking again. And me comes back. I seem to have more and more of what I’ll call just nothing the more I enquire.

Hope I’m on track, but under investigation theme seems to be just a feeling or an assumption.

R


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