Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

Ah wonderful. Yes. There are following thoughts a d that's OK

Also there's noticing that any words used are labels at some point so it's impossible to describe any sensation without labeling it. So what to do? Hahaha. It is what it is!

The game is playing and what I really am is enjoying the ride!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:21 am

And by the way. I tried really hard to 'resolve is' and just gave up because I realised I couldn't


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:22 pm

Also there's noticing that any words used are labels at some point so it's impossible to describe any sensation without labeling it.
So what to do? Hahaha. It is what it is!
Exactly! Just noticing that sensations appear and thoughts appear, dropping all the labels about the sensations.
And by the way. I tried really hard to 'resolve is' and just gave up because I realised I couldn't
Yes, good that you notice, it cannot be resolved with thoughts, so only looking! :)

So going back to previous question, answer these:

Can an "I" be found in the body?

At this moment, is there an "I" somewhere to be found?
Have a look around!

What does "I" point to?
Is there something corresponding in reality?
Or just more thoughts?

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:13 pm

There's no I in reality

It's odd
I (um) can't find it yet it appears to be there.
Who or what is having these thoughts that there's no I!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:51 am

Who or what is having these thoughts that there's no I!
Ok, please answer each question below separately and describe a bit more what is seen:

Can an "I" be found in the body?

Is there an "I" somewhere to be found?

What does "I" point to?

Is there something corresponding in reality?

Or just more thoughts?

Look closely and let me know what is seen.

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:43 am

Who or what is having these thoughts that there's no I!
Ok, please answer each question below separately and describe a bit more what is seen:

Can an "I" be found in the body?

Is there an "I" somewhere to be found?

What does "I" point to?

Is there something corresponding in reality?

Or just more thoughts?

Look closely and let me know what is seen.
I can't find a I in the body. I only have a sense that I exist because there are sensations that are being noticed. I know that sounds contradictory, the I that notices sounds like an I in the body but it's more like everywhere .

An I somewhere to be found. Yes and no as per my last answer.

I points to wants and needs which seem unbelievable once put into context. Still they are there.

There's a sense of being which is a kind of I.

There are thoughts that insist there is an I even though one can't be found. Quite odd. I notice thoughts arising to give a label to this sense of witnessing but they are not the same thing.

My thoughts expect a breakthrough from this revelation, however, that is not so, that is not happening. They continue regardless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:36 pm

I can't find a I in the body. I only have a sense that I exist because there are sensations that are being noticed. I know that sounds contradictory, the I that notices sounds like an I in the body but it's more like everywhere
The sense of being/excistance is felt for sure. Excistance is happening.

Is "I" however keeping excistance excisting?
There are thoughts that insist there is an I even though one can't be found. Quite odd. I notice thoughts arising to give a label to this sense of witnessing but they are not the same thing.
Thoughts will continue happening, they will not stop explaining experience. That´s what thoughts do.
We are not trying to get rid of thoughts, rather notice that the "I" is only a label for a thought. A story.

If you drop the thoughts is there "I" left anywhere?

Has "I" ever been more than a thought?

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:59 pm

Yes I see it. If thought is dropped there is no I.

By inference, I is the label to a story, or a link to the thoughts that reference themselves.

I've had this direct experience many times, however I'm surprised it is not permanent!

Looking more closely I can see that that too is part of the same story Ha...

Thoughts about escaping thoughts. Very funny

Any question I ask is just thought wanting to explain the unexplainable. It's a house of cards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:34 pm

Yes I see it. If thought is dropped there is no I.

By inference, I is the label to a story, or a link to the thoughts that reference themselves.
Is "I" an actual link to thoughts?

If so, what does this link look like?
I've had this direct experience many times, however I'm surprised it is not permanent!
Seeing through the beliefs will keep unfolding deeper and deeper, this is only a beginning.
There may be a lot of beliefs to be unfolded, its not all necessarily dropped at once.
Any question I ask is just thought wanting to explain the unexplainable. It's a house of cards.
Yes, a house of cards indeed!

Are you asking the questions or is the thoughts only appearing?

At this moment, is there "I" anywhere to be found?

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:50 am

Still with you. Taking more than I thought. Hahaha.

Getting more and more fear come up and laying awake at night unable to find my way through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 pm

Great to hear from you! There is no hurry to anywhere so take all the time is needed :)

It's normal to experience fear at this point. These are the fears, that come up during this process and that need to be transcended.

We can also have a look at the fear.

How?

First of all don't push them away. Don't look away.
Look directly at them.
Go through them. This takes a great amount of courage but you'll be alright!

And then see them for what they are.

What are they?
With the illusion of a separate self, there also emerged the illusion, that this separate self needs protection.
A natural mechanism, that has worn out. A mechanism, that spits out thoughts about "fear" when it gets hot.
That's it.

What is being protected?
That's the joke of it all!
What is being protected is the fact, that the separate self is illusory to begin with.
Once this is seen, there is no need for resistance and fear anymore and it will subside.

When while looking, if there is a moment of:
"If I go one step further, I will disappear"
or
"If I go one step further, I will go crazy"
or
"If I go one step further, I will die"

then DO the step. This is what is needed to get through this once and for all.

Let me know if there specific sensations and thoughts coming up and we can look more in to those.
It is going to be alright, nothing real can disappear.

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:43 am

Yes it's the disappear one...

I'm seeing my thought constructs more and more. It's disconcerting how much of my life is illusory.

Had a moment of anger and everything became clear and obvious and powerful, however my little self re-established itself quite quickly afterwards. Was amazing to watch this process.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:39 pm

I'm seeing my thought constructs more and more. It's disconcerting how much of my life is illusory.
Yes it´s pretty astonishing to see how everything is based on illusion, this will keep deepening too.
Yes it´s the disappear one...
Nothing real can disappear, it is only a belief that is dropped.
If you look at a tree is the life happening to a tree or as tree?
And if you drop the label tree, does the tree disappear?

And how about human form? Is life happening to a human or as a human?

Here is an excerise for you. Go out into nature and spend some time watching movement of the whole.
See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds colours, sensations come and go

Notice that everything is part of the movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself.
If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there and inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from distance?

Is witnessing part of the movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Let me know what is seen :)

User avatar
JamesH
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby JamesH » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:08 am

If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there and inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from distance?

Is witnessing part of the movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Let me know what is seen :)
When I drop into sensation only, everything disappears except the noticing of the sensations. I know the sensation is happening however there is a boundary between my body and the thing creating the stimulus. Like if I bang my toe on a chair then the chair isn't inside my body, so there's a boudary.

From this there appears to be an inside and an outside. I know I'm not the tree for example. There is no sensation of tree inside me. I mean if I stop looking at or feeling the tree it does not exist in my perception.

So it appears that there is a witness observing what's occurring. I have had an experience in the past when I saw everything that is is inside me, however, that did not sustain itself.

Witnessing is part of the whole for sure. At some level I know it's the same thing but I don't experience that from the perspective of sensation.

Recently I've seen my entire structure of self image (thoughts) as inside me and it's moved aside for pure experience. This comes back center stage if I stop focusing on sensation alone.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Norinke
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Still stuck in fear of authority and what others think of me!

Postby Norinke » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 pm

When I drop into sensation only, everything disappears except the noticing of the sensations. I know the sensation is happening however there is a boundary between my body and the thing creating the stimulus. Like if I bang my toe on a chair then the chair isn't inside my body, so there's a boudary. From this there appears to be an inside and an outside. I know I'm not the tree for example. There is no sensation of tree inside me. I mean if I stop looking at or feeling the tree it does not exist in my perception.
Banging a toe to a chair, isn't this also a sensation? Or touching a tree? What is chair and toe in actual experience?
So it appears that there is a witness observing what's occurring. I have had an experience in the past when I saw everything that is is inside me, however, that did not sustain itself. Witnessing is part of the whole for sure. At some level I know it's the same thing but I don't experience that from the perspective of sensation.
Yes, witnessing is there. But can anything be inside or outside of life?

Where is this inside of YOU that holds everything?
Is it in the body somewhere?
Can you locate it?


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests