no next

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:10 pm

Yes, I suggest you rename it as awareness and see what happens. Awareness is not me. It's just Consciousness. I think there was a recent Rupert Spira video about that.

Keep looking!
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:46 pm

Found it.

This was posted a week ago.

https://youtu.be/kCc2LiymHi8
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Steven257
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:14 am

Stacy,

Thanks for the link to Rupert’s video. I watched it. I see that the witness is awareness. In his approach, as you know, we are all Awareness. In the approach of Liberation Unleashed, it has been helpful to me to try not to identify with Awareness or anything at all. I realized recently that the “I” concept that I have been carrying around is trying to move to a seemingly "Higher Realm". Just another trap. I am continuing to search for an actual “witness” and there is indeed just Awareness which is not me, but paradoxically probably is me as it is All. It is also helpful that I see that these are just thoughts but when I look for a self behind all of the theory, there is still nothing found! Looking for self directly is something that I never seriously did in many years of spiritual learning.

Anyway, that is where I am at now. I am tired of years of theory. Still feeling some anger and sadness for some reason. Probably part of the grieving process, as you stated. So much wasted time and energy! Still, the tendency is to analyze like in the first paragraph. Tired of doing that.

Still working on watching the gap in between thoughts as DE. So obvious now that the thoughts just come from some unknown place and it seems ridiculous that I could be controlling these thoughts. No "I" to do that. That is very clear now.

Now, need to work on the belief that there is still some tiny little soul that every so often can have some minimal effect on something... some minimal control. Granted, cannot find it, but still not 100 percent convinced that there is nothing at all deep, deep inside the mind-body that is slightly distinct from everything else and may have a tiny bit of local control over this small piece of real estate.

More precisely, something is holding on to the concept that there is just Awareness and "I" am going along for the ride. With this concept, there is still an "I".

Will continue to do the exercise of looking for the gap in between thoughts and looking for "self". More focused now despite this wordy post...but could be more focused. Still wasting some time with the content of thoughts. Hard to break the habit, but trying again and again.

Thanks again. I really appreciate you.

With love,

Steven

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:47 pm

Good morning,

You are welcome, Steven.

This is the kind of untrue thinking you want to look at directly:
something is holding on to the concept that there is just Awareness and "I" am going along for the ride. With this concept, there is still an "I".
LOOK for this mythical "something."

Keep looking, keep reporting daily, maybe every other day.

Relax into it. No struggling!

Much love,
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Steven257
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:28 pm

Stacy,

Sometimes, I open this post to write and have no idea what will come up, like this moment. Just waiting. Watching thoughts arise, sensation of calmness, but a bit fatigued too. Breathing happening of course, typing. Noticed that thought that whatever is watching and waiting is labeled as "me" which I would call "Awareness". Noticing that I am labeling "Awareness" but really have no idea what it is. Not an object but looking for it as I would look for another object or the "I", which is also not possible. Well, the looking is happening not will never find these things as discrete, separate objects, as they are not objects. Self does not exist and Awareness is just Awareness.

Just took a 10 minute break to prepare for work tomorrow, but noticed increasing tendency to escape to videos, news articles, anything to distract me from this. Started a couple of days ago after there were some additional insights. Just noticing it and thinking that there is no one in particular that is getting distracted, it is just happening.

This mythical "something" seems to be Awareness. Isn't that what I am? I know it is just Awareness, but if I am anything, am I not that? Not findable but that seems to be what is witnessing. Not an object, but a process.

Steven

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:39 pm

Hi Steven,

You've got it. Stop confusing yourself. If you say "I," you are indicating a discreet separate self of some kind with a will. Awareness, on the other hand does not have that definition. Awareness is what you're describing, not "I."

Why do you persist in calling it "I?"

You're only delaying.

There is more to see that cannot as easily be shown with this Santa Claus concept if "I" hanging around or believing in the content of thought.

Are you finished with these 3 understandings now?

Is there a self, an I, and was there ever?

Is there a controller with a will who can make things happen, make yourself think things, etc? Has there ever been?

Is there any reality to the content of thought or is it simply thought arising?

Let me know!

Much love,
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Steven257
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:03 am

Stacy-
Are you finished with these 3 understandings now?
Not exactly sure what is intellectually understood vs. completely understood at all levels mostly for the "self" question...
Is there a self, an I, and was there ever?
Right now, the self seems like a little ripple of consciousness but not separate. Just got a glimpse of something new now. Image of a hologram. There is just the Now which includes everything with incredibly intimate inter-relatedness...Intimacy...Love. The image is difficult to put into words. Will try again later if there is more insight.
Is there a controller with a will who can make things happen, make yourself think things, etc? Has there ever been?
This is very clear. No controller.
Is there any reality to the content of thought or is it simply thought arising?
Very, very clear that thought just arises. No control over it. The content refers to DE but never actually real but the content is necessary to function and communicate. However, still spending so much of the day, especially for the past 2 days, with imagining the past or future, day-dreaming, less aware of physical space around me. Not sure why. Each time, there is a realization that this is not real, but this day-dreaming keeps happening.

Love,

Steven

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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:47 pm

Good morning, Steven.

I don't know what to do or what to suggest next. I'm out of suggestions. So I asked a long time guide what she would do next and she gave this exercise. She suggests that maybe you have not learned how to actually LOOK.

I hesitate, because you seem to do better with shorter exercises, but here we go:

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?
Can an "I" be found in the "I" thought?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?

It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.

I hope this helps.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:51 pm

Hi again, just a response to your previous post.
Right now, the self seems like a little ripple of consciousness but not separate. Just got a glimpse of something new now. Image of a hologram. There is just the Now which includes everything with incredibly intimate inter-relatedness...Intimacy...Love. The image is difficult to put into words. Will try again later if there is more insight.
Do you realize that this is all content of thought and not Direct Experience?

We are not looking for more insight. We are looking for what is there and what is not.

Love,
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Steven257
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:52 am

Hi Stacy-

Your last post asked:
Do you realize that this is all content of thought and not Direct Experience?
I think you nailed it. I am looking for some magical insight, still, but realize that now.

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?
Can an "I" be found in the "I" thought?
Definitely no thinker of thought. No "I" in thought including the "I" thought. (This latter statement is giving "me" more problems by far than any other in the exercise. The others are pretty easy after doing this twice today.)
Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?
No hearer of sound can be found. No "I" in sound.
Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?
No see-er of colour and no "I" in colour.
Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?
No feeler of sensation. No "I" found in sensation itself.
Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?
No smeller of smell. No "I' in smell itself.
Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?
No taster of taste found. No "I' in taste.
Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
No experiencer of experience found.

Spending more time on the "I" thought now. Will post again tomorrow. There is no "self" for sure. It is simply not possible to find it because it is not anything discreet that can be found. That is understood. I just feel that there would be less suffering. I need to continue to look obviously because I am not feeling any shift. Seems like an intellectual understanding that is based on experience but not feeling it, I guess?

No need to respond yet. Going to give this more time.

Steven

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Steven257
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:38 am

Hi Stacy,

Just checking in. Reviewing all of the posts from day 1.

Steven

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:59 am

Excellent!

You practically read my mind. I was thinking of asking you to do exactly that. Stop and do any exercise given that you feel attracted to doing.

Good idea!
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Anastacia42
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Re: no next

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:38 am

From another guide's page:

"I” is not a place where thoughts appear.
“I” is a thought.
It arises and subsides by itself.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"In the Japanese monasteries they warn you not to come in."

Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightning"

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Steven257
Posts: 99
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:36 pm

Stacy,

For the past 4 or 5 days, there is been a feeling of chest heaviness. Mostly a feeling that there is more of a resistance when I breathe in and out. However, I am not short of breath and I am fine unless I think about this. No health problems and I am in the medical profession and I know that there there is probably nothing physically wrong. However, I have become obsessed with this feeling and worry that when I travel next week, it will get worse and somehow I will die. Feels almost like a panic attack only very frequent and not quite as intense as a true panic attack. In an older post you said that you have some information about panic attacks and perhaps it will help. Would you please send? I picture this spiraling out of control. I know somehow that this is related to what we are doing but I hesitate to theorize about why this is happening.

Thanks!

Steven

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Steven257
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Re: no next

Postby Steven257 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:36 pm

Forgot to mention when I read your last post, there was a feeling of sadness and fear as well.


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