Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:03 pm

Perhaps these cycles you have of working out / vegging out are just the natural cylcles of your biology and you should relax and enjoy them.
I have times where I try to just let go of control, and accept what happens. But when I do this I have a tendance to just lie down, watching movies and eat unhealthy for weeks. In these periods, I feel I'm in lower levels of consciousness, just operating on auto pilot and being less happy. One of my teachers once told me to be like water running downhill, following the path of least resistance. Not trying to do anything. But when I follow this advice I often become so lazy as described over. So it is difficult to make the balance between totally let go vs forcing my self to do constructive activities.

My whole life has been about being as constructive and long term effect as possible. So maybe these lazy periods is a sign that I need to slow down, and not taking life so seriously. After these lazy periods I'm often inspired, like I'm now.
I'm not sure this framing of positive or negative attidudes is helpful. What do you think?
I don't know. I have a deep calling to know truth, but some weeks ago there was no motivation there. I have a hard time not judging this as negative/judging my self for not being effective enough. Im not sure if this framing is helpful or not. It certainly doesn't feel good. Do you have any thoughts about this?
This inquiry is about pointing to the direct experience of the five senses: seeing, hearing, feeling, taste, smell and looking for any sense of self within experience.
What about emotions and thoughts?
There is experience but no *experiencer* of experience. Can you dig that?
Contemplating on this question brought me back to a state I haven't been in for a while. I cant really find this observer. There is only what is observed. These glimpses lasts just some seconds, but I can sometimes access them on when I want.

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:27 pm

Hey Hans,

When you say,
I have times where I try to just let go of control, and accept what happens. But when I do this I have a tendance to just lie down, watching movies and eat unhealthy for weeks. In these periods, I feel I'm in lower levels of consciousness, just operating on auto pilot and being less happy.
Is there a self that's in control? Are you attached to a notion of a positive self that motivates you to exercise and eat well? Is there a corresponding negative self that lies down and watches films and eats unhealthy food? What happens to these *selves* when you go on autopilot and become less happy?

And this is great looking Hans,
There is experience but no *experiencer* of experience. Can you dig that?

Contemplating on this question brought me back to a state I haven't been in for a while. I cant really find this observer. There is only what is observed. These glimpses lasts just some seconds, but I can sometimes access them on when I want.

The key to looking is to pay full, open, non-judgemental, kindly awareness to the primary experience of the senses, what is seen, felt, heard, etc. Can you say a bit more about the ability to access these glimpses of non-duality?

Lots of love to you

Amrita

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:11 pm

Is there a self that's in control? Are you attached to a notion of a positive self that motivates you to exercise and eat well? Is there a corresponding negative self that lies down and watches films and eats unhealthy food? What happens to these *selves* when you go on autopilot and become less happy?
I have experienced many times that there is no self in control, but yes, I am by default still attached to "me" being in a motivated or demotivated mood.
The motivated/inspired self is gone, while the demotivated self is present when I'm on autopilot. What differentiates these "Selves" is the emotions that comes up together with thoughts. For instance when the motivated self is present there is nice emotions when thinking about doing meditation, while when in the demotivated self negative emotions appear.
The key to looking is to pay full, open, non-judgemental, kindly awareness to the primary experience of the senses, what is seen, felt, heard, etc. Can you say a bit more about the ability to access these glimpses of non-duality?
I cant access these glimpses as I could yesterday. Right now, I feel I'm a person again. But these glimpses happens if I first go into a state of just being pure observation, and after that looking for the observer, which I then cannot find, so I become what is observed. But these glimpses are so short, that it is difficult to talk about. They are maybe even much shorter than a second.

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:15 pm

Hey Hans,

I'm tired but wanted to post something in response to you,

It sounds like there is a lot of beating yourself up in your thinking. Is it possible to relax and accepting what is present within experience rather than attempting to control it? Is it possible to be more loving and forgiving towards yourself?

When you say
What differentiates these "Selves" is the emotions that comes up together with thoughts.
Can you tell me what the difference between an emotion and a thought in direct experience? Can you find an emotion in your direct experience of paying attention to these words? If so, can you describe it to me? Is an emotion a type of thought or a particular set of sensations in your body?

Love

Amrita

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:22 pm

I'm tired but wanted to post something in response to you,
Thanks for doing that, I'm very thankful for talking to you!
It sounds like there is a lot of beating yourself up in your thinking. Is it possible to relax and accepting what is present within experience rather than attempting to control it? Is it possible to be more loving and forgiving towards yourself?
I think you are right. I'll do this more from now on. Accept what is present, and just observe it with love.
Can you tell me what the difference between an emotion and a thought in direct experience?
Thought is sounds, words or images in my awareness. Emotions is sensations in my belly/stomack, chest or throat.
Can you find an emotion in your direct experience of paying attention to these words? If so, can you describe it to me? Is an emotion a type of thought or a particular set of sensations in your body?
No, I can't find an emotion of paying attention to these words. Emotion is not a type of thought, it is a set of sensations in my body.

The relationship between thoughts and emotions as far as I can see is that an emotion often comes after a thought. This can be "negative" or "positive" emotions.

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:11 am

Hi,

This is great looking,
Thought is sounds, words or images in my awareness. Emotions is sensations in my belly/stomack, chest or throat.
and I want to encourage you to keep looking into experience. What else is there apart from images, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts (sounds, words or images)? An emotion as you say is made up from sensations and thoughts (sounds, words, images). What is it that labels these sensations "positive" and "negative"?

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:17 pm

What else is there apart from images, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts (sounds, words or images)?
As far as I can tell, there is nothing more in direct experience than this.
An emotion as you say is made up from sensations and thoughts (sounds, words, images). What is it that labels these sensations "positive" and "negative"?
The labeling "positive" or "negative" is just words/thoughts describing how an emotion/sensation feels. I'm not sure what determines the pleasantness of a sensation. For example chocolate feels pleasant, and rotten milk does not. The same way with emotions. They just feel pleasant or unpleasant, but I'm not sure if thoughts has a say in determine this.

I also have to mention that I'm often able to look at "unpleasant" emotion as no value, it is just a sensations without being unpleasant or pleasant.

Hans

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:55 am

Hi,

This is great Hans,
What else is there apart from images, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts (sounds, words or images)?
As far as I can tell, there is nothing more in direct experience than this.
Which means we have to explore, examine *look" into direct experience for any sign of a self or I. We can work through each sense modality such as seeing, touching, hearing etc and look for any signs of a self. I hope thats clear.

Lets start with the visual sense of looking. Look at any object in the room you are in. Relax and take your time with this. As you look at your object can you sense a self or I that is looking out at the object? Or is there simply the experience of seeing (images and colours)? Is a self necessary to see objects or does seeing simply happen?

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:55 pm

Hey Amrita,
Lets start with the visual sense of looking. Look at any object in the room you are in. Relax and take your time with this. As you look at your object can you sense a self or I that is looking out at the object? Or is there simply the experience of seeing (images and colours)? Is a self necessary to see objects or does seeing simply happen?
Ive tried for a while now, and I find it quite difficult with the visual sense. Maybe some glimpses, but It feels like something is looking. What this something is, is not a person but some hidden thing just looking.

I also tried to do it with physical feelings, which I find easier. I have longer glimpses of the physical sensation just existing, where a separate self is out of the picture.

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:46 pm

This is great Hans,
Ive tried for a while now, and I find it quite difficult with the visual sense. Maybe some glimpses, but It feels like something is looking. What this something is, is not a person but some hidden thing just looking.
Can you describe how this this thing that looks is experienced in direct experience? Is is it a subtle physical sensation behind the eyes for example? Is it a type of thought? Is it a combination of sensation/thought? When reading these words can you find a self that is reading the actual words or is reading simply happening?

Lots of love to you

Amrita

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:58 pm

Can you describe how this this thing that looks is experienced in direct experience?
Hi! I saw that this thing was just an image(a thought) of a shadow, looking. When I saw this, I saw that there was nothing that was looking. It was just the visual seeing in it self. And since there was no observer, it was only what was observed in it self without an observer! In direct experience the things observed, and the thoughts related to the things was therefore the only things I could be. This was still very vague. Not a very clear experience, and it lasted only a few minutes. But probably the deepest experience of my true self so far.

Hans

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:27 am

Lets try a similar thing with hearing and sounds.

Close your eyes and listen to any sound around you. Can you find a self that is actually listening to the sound or is the sound simply arising? Can you find a line or boundary between you and the sound? Isn't it the case that sounds simply arise and pass and there is no self necessary for them to be experienced?

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:48 pm

Can you find a self that is actually listening to the sound or is the sound simply arising?
Sound is simply arising, without finding a listener.
Can you find a line or boundary between you and the sound?
Not really, but I still dont see the sound as me/made of me. But I can't find the boundary either...

Hans

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amrita
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby amrita » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:35 pm

So can you say a self is necessary to either see the mental image of objects or to listen to sounds?

Do you make yourself see or does seeing just happen?

Do you make yourself listen or does hearing just happen?

Please take some time and look at your actual experience of what is happening as you go about your life. Is there a self that is causing the images or sounds to arise? If these senses stopped or disappeared would you lose anything of this subtle sense of self?

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Hansrogn
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Re: Hi! Ended my job to focus 100% on non-duality. Looking for a guide.

Postby Hansrogn » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:50 am

Hey.

I need some more time. Ill update you tomorrow.

Hans


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