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todorico
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unroll

Postby todorico » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:42 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I would like to get more awareness about the resources I have within myself to appreciate life. I have interest on learning about my real likes. I feel as if I have spend most of my lifetime surviving and I feel as I haven't lived up to my own skills and gifts, instead I sense I have spend most of the time trying to fix myself.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I would like to see whatever is here for me. I am grateful a friend of mine put me in touch with this and so I believe there is something nice for me on this exercise. I am expecting to get lighter on my thoughts and flow a bit more; allow myself more surprises so to be able to engage more with whoever I am.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I am catholic, not an orthodox. I don't have any anything against it, but It hasn't either given me the freedom I need. I have done Vipassana mediation but not in regular basis.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?:
9

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:36 am

Hello all
I am bit confused, could anyone here guide me on where do i need to click to start the process? It seems to me that i am a bit confused, as i can see anywhere to starting point for liberation...
Cheers

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Olenko
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:46 pm

Hi todorico,

Hope you don't mind having had to wait a couple of days. There are a lot of people wanting to be guided and not enough guides. I can be your guide if that's ok for you?

You wrote that you would like to get more awareness about the resources within you to appreciate life. I can say that this inquiry will definitely bring more awareness into many aspects, though in itself it isn't the point of this, but a by-product of the process.

Your expectations are reasonable. Even so, there is no guarantee that anything will happen. Maybe you get lighter on your thoughts and there's a bit more flow. Maybe things will stay as they are. It's better not to have any expectations.
We are not in the business of improving life. This is simply about seeing how things actually are.

How the process here goes, is that we exchange messages with each other frequently (daily if possible). My part is to help you with the inquiry, but this is a work you will have to do yourself. I cannot give you anything. Insights can only happen through your own looking. I hope you understand this.

Have you read any related material? Like other dialogues on this forum or the "Gateless Gatecrashers" e-book?

Best regards,
Olenko

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:29 pm

Olenko Hi
Thanks for your email...Never late,huge thanks
I havent read anything yet, i browsed the web before joinin in but nothng that i have explored in a thourogh manner; I odidnt want to build any expectations about what i should or shouldnt get from here,so in a way I am totally naivy to The Gate, where shall I start?
best

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Olenko
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Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:18 pm

Ok. We can start this from a totally blank slate. It might be more interesting that way. But I just want you to know that if you want, it's ok to read any material offered on this website during the inquiry. Many people for example tend to read the free e-book called "Gateless Gatecrashers", which can be found on the "Books" -section above. It contains several dialogues that have lead to awakenings.

But to start off here:

In your own words, considering your "self", what exactly is this "self"? The "me" or "I", you refer to?

And happy new year! :)

Regards,
Olenko

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:11 pm

Happy new year to you too...
Thanks, I will check the book...
Rightly, the self ...i assume the self to be what i have made of myself , my likes, dislikes, tendencies, traits, strenghts,..I think it is those many things together. It seems to me suh an obvious answer that i cant think any further.What causes my strugle is that is that some how i feel as if me wasnt me,...not that in crazy or have a bipolar disorder, nooo,i dont mean it that way...let me give it to you this way, I feel as if i have the enginering of a BMW but going with the speed of the Renault4. I liek this methaphor because it help me to picture how I experience de conversation with myself

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Olenko
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Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:01 am

Rightly, the self ...i assume the self to be what i have made of myself , my likes, dislikes, tendencies, traits, strenghts,..I think it is those many things together.
Ok, so you say those many attributes make up yourself. What is that self exactly? Is it tangible? Can it be sensed?

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:55 pm

Dear Olenko
Thanks for your reply...but i dont quite seems to follow the logic of Liberation Unleshed :(
You have recommended me to read the book, but the book is all about other people experiences....I just get the feeling that i ahvent quite figured out how this work,...sorry
Your question...ok The self, what is the self, obviously I can not touch myself, it is just my ideas, values, ways of feelings, believing...
I hope we can work together and i can benefit from this as my two friends have done so....they both said this was really enlighting to them, however i didnt want them to tell what it was about...
very much looking forward hearing from you...
p.s. Have you got any video, the online book is not easy to read for me,
Best

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Olenko
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Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:47 pm

Hello there,

I mentioned the book because some have come to awakening by something they read on the book. Awakening is simply coming to realize that there is no self. The way this happens, differs for everyone. But it rarely happens without self-inquiry.

About videos, I do occasionally link to certain videos which explain a specific subject well. I can do so in the future, but right now, as the actual looking for the self is what's important, let's continue with that:
The self, what is the self, obviously I can not touch myself, it is just my ideas, values, ways of feelings, believing...
When referring to "my ideas, values", who or what is this me/I, who supposedly is the owner of these ideas and values, ways of feeling, believing? If it isn't something physical, what is it?

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Olenko
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Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:25 pm

Hello,

Do you still want to continue?

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:16 pm

thanks...yes I do want to continue, i do indeed but I just dont know what to say to you.
"When referring to "my ideas, values", who or what is this me/I, who supposedly is the owner of these ideas and values, ways of feeling, believing? If it isn't something physical, what is it?"
well i do own them, in ac ertain way, i use them i live up to them...
the self is not physical...it is and it is not. My arm is myself, my head is myself, my nose, my mouth...my ideas, memories etc..all of that together makes who I am
I dont see any problem with this...probably that is the probvlem that i dont see any problem with considering the self this way.
I am lost...;( I want to unroll so yes I am here

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Olenko
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Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:28 pm

Ok. Then let's start unrolling..

First I would like to point out if you can see how inconsistent the view of yourself you currently have is.

First you wrote that:
obviously I can not touch myself, it is just my ideas, values, ways of feelings, believing...
Then you wrote:
My arm is myself, my head is myself, my nose, my mouth...
And considering the above, how can [Your] [arm] be the same as Yourself? Since if the arm is yours, then the arm is something 'you' own/have (so it cannot be the same as you). We're trying to pinpoint what/where that 'you' is, or if it actually exists.

But I get that there's an identification as being the body/mind which has a certain name; You may say: "I am todorico". But who/what exactly is this "I" who is todorico? Keep repeating to yourself: "I am this body, I am this body, I am this body..", and look carefully at that I in the sentence (which supposedly points to yourself). What exactly is it? Does it actually point to anything that exists? The word "body" points to the physical body. The word "I" ?

You can also repeat just the word "I...". Look carefully and spend good time doing this.

Then tell me what you find.

Best regards,
Olenko

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:00 pm

I will and come back to you..;)

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todorico
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Re: unroll

Postby todorico » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:30 am

Hello...( Thnsk for being there)
I am not quite sure if the body is actually mine, or myself, for it for itself doesnt tell who I am. others can see myself through my body, I need it to express myself, to an extent.
As i was doing this exercise i noticed that probaly what best define me are my dreams, what i hope... I dont like very much what i have done with my life so far, and i find myself most of the time coming to terms, and saying " oh yes, thsi was good, or this was the best you coudl have done at that moment on time" but trully honest I am not that satisfied. I havent had bad lifein a drmatic way, but I am sure I havent realized not even a third of my potential.It may sound a bit pretentious, but trully honest I feel as if have been "surviving" all the way long up to here. I have done good yes I have done, but I havent been satisfied.
It is not that going around pretending this or the other, people actually sees me as "real person", it is not that i try to show something i am not as be pretentious; in fact i may be doing this, but in the other direction: i am living a sort of live which doesnt uses /relyes on all the resources I think i have.
Sadly i not talking about material resources, which again sadly haven never been a priority on my life, although I wish they were; it is somthing like saying " I wish i could experience hanger or thirst..I know. Waht i am talking is about my motivations my dreams..
I have lived a life celebrating other's people achitvments and sucess, being part of this celebrations, and me myself I havent even celbrate a birthday, dont recall havent had a birthday celebration that i treasure on my memories, in fact not even one that i dont treasure. Sound silly but it is like this, i have had birthday cakes, yes, but me myself being part of it I dont rember.
This whole question about who I am? I am mixture between past and future, that is all what i can say, what i am now i think will pass, only that i wish i could enjoy more what i am living and treasure more pleasent experiences. My experiences have or not meaning depending on the love, I can experience, towards me, and this have been a huge issue on my life. I had diffculties believeing that people love me, I have developed a life of self indpendence which I have never intented or conciously wanted to do, but it has became the rule; i havent risk that much because i fear that I will have to take the pain and joy by myelsef. . The fact that at my age I havent fullfiled the love dream, is not a matter of this time's situation,it is a long history on me. I have worked constantly trying to re-conciliate with my mum and her absence, her rejection towards me...it may be untrue that she doesnt love me, however i shoudlnt care any more, should I ? why to bother about that when I have been living all these years without her support,not even without her being there to receive my time -to -time love's expression, I fear her sadly. I woudl like to get free from this strong desire/dream i have that one day I woudl feel loved by her...instead I woudl like to need this any more.
What i look for in live is intimacy, having the opportunity to offer my love and to know someone counts on me. This has been my realization in the last few days.
I dont have issues with philosphy, in fact i love it. However I need to let you know that for the above cicusntances i.e. job and not for a real interest I have been "learning" psychology a lot, so this question about he self are not strange to me. I just woudl like "this knowledge " getting on the way of my liberation unleashed
Until soon,

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Olenko
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: unroll

Postby Olenko » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:10 pm

Hello there,

We can talk a bit about the personal matters you described. But I would like to point out that it isn't the goal here, none of that have anything to do with awakening. And I'm happy to read that you've been learning psychology. :) It helps with unraveling those issues you described, and you can also help others to unravel theirs.
I have worked constantly trying to re-conciliate with my mum and her absence, her rejection towards me...it may be untrue that she doesnt love me, however i shoudlnt care any more, should I ? why to bother about that when I have been living all these years without her support,not even without her being there to receive my time -to -time love's expression, I fear her sadly.
For what it's worth, my relationship with my mother is also distant. But I do love her, and she knows that. And I know she loves me. So our situation if perfectly fine with me (and I think with her too), even though we are in contact maybe two or three times a year.
what best define me are my dreams, what i hope... I dont like very much what i have done with my life so far, and i find myself most of the time coming to terms, and saying " oh yes, thsi was good, or this was the best you coudl have done at that moment on time" but trully honest I am not that satisfied. I havent had bad lifein a drmatic way, but I am sure I havent realized not even a third of my potential.It may sound a bit pretentious, but trully honest I feel as if have been "surviving" all the way long up to here. I have done good yes I have done, but I havent been satisfied.
Just like psychology deals with personality, what you described as defining 'you', is really defining the personality.
Those dreams / desires, dislikes, dissatisfaction.. constitute to the behavior of todorico (and of course feelings as well). Others have a picture of what kind of person todorico is, based on these things.

At this point, let's define what we call 'direct experience'. It means what you are sensing right now; The sense input from all the senses: What is seen, what is heard, felt, smelled, tasted and also thoughts. There is awareness of thoughts as well, isn't there?

Now, above you wrote: "my dreams", "what I hope".
Look in direct experience: Where is that one who dreams? Who hopes? Really look. Can you find one? Or is there just experiencing?


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