Could someone please guide me?

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Calbert
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Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:56 pm

Hi There!

I'm very excited to have found this site! I'm looking for someone to guide me. I hope there is someone who would like to help...

My background: 46 year old male. I found spirituality through a 12 step program 2 years ago. Until then I was an ardent skeptic (for just about anything). Once I actually started working the program instead of doing things 'my way' I saw that my problem was my self-centeredness and my large ego. At some point I had what is called a 'spiritual awakening' (which this program calls 'inevitable' if you do what's suggested).

Here's what happened to me: I started to realize that we are all connected. My insecurities seemed to melt away, I didn't have nearly as much fear about things. I started living life with a 'flow' and an ease. I stopped taking things personally, realized that all the ego trappings and material things don't matter. I got into this state of love and compassion and just felt 'connected' to life for the first time in my life. I felt at one with the world and the universe.

I started to investigate what the hell all these feelings were (I had no idea) and what it seemed to line up with was descriptions of enlightenment, non-duality, universal consciousness, etc. So for the last year or so I've been trying to understand spiritual things. Things like Eckhart Tolle and the Untethered Soul resonate greatly with me. I meditate about 3 times a week.

What brings me here is that slowly those "connected" feelings started to fade. It feels like as I build my life back up my ego comes out (specifically with dating and the job). After stumbling into this direct pointing stuff, it all seems to make perfect sense that there is no "I" and when I try to prop myself up surrounding my ego I feel phony, inauthentic and separate. I believe the "no self" intellectually and in theory, but I just can't seem to be able to "feel" it. I've read 'Gateless Gatecrashers' and a number of threads on this site. I get the sense that I'm close. That maybe I just need to interact with someone who can push me. At the same time I totally 'get it' that "I" have been chasing something, and that my speech and thought patterns contain an awful lot of "I's". I think I'm ready to 'let go' now.

So, there's my egoic bio. If you'd like to help me I'd greatly appreciate it!

Calbert

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DirkPetz
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby DirkPetz » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:37 pm

Hello Calbert,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Dirk and I would be happy to guide you here.

Before we get started could you be so kind and read this disclaimer (and confirm that you have done so)

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Looking forward to working with you

Dirk

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:34 pm

Hi Dirk! Thanks so much!

I am absolutely ready to face my fears and to see the truth! I've read the disclaimer.

:)

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DirkPetz
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby DirkPetz » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:57 pm

Great. Nice to have you here, and thank you for sharing some of your story in your initial post. Sounds like you are in the right space to do this :-)

You mentioned that you read the Gatecrashers book and followed a couple of threads on the forum, so you might already have an idea about the logistics here...
Before we start proper, I would like us to agree on a couple of points:

I am inviting you to a direct investigation into the nature of reality and self - so I am principally interested in your direct moment-to-moment experience and observations, rather than philosophical considerations or intellectualizing.
In general, I ask the questions and you respond. All that is needed is for you to stay focused and open-minded, to look at what is pointed to, and to be honest in your replies.
Please leave aside all other teachings / books / satsangs / and so on, while engaging in this investigation with me. You can continue your meditation practice, if you like.
Post regularly, even if it is only to inform that you need more time to reflect or formulate your reply.
Please use the quote function (http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660”) for greater ease of communication.
Please answer all my questions marked in red.

Are you o.k. with these?

I am absolutely ready to face my fears and to see the truth!
Since you mention it... What are your fears regarding this investigation?

Please also tell me about what you expect from this process. What do you expect to be different when you clearly see 'no self'?

Looking forward to hear your reflections.

Best wishes

Dirk

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:50 am

Thank you! Very excited to begin!

What are your fears regarding this investigation?


Actually, I took the word 'fears' from the disclaimer. I was using it as a figure of speech. I don't know that I have any real fears about this process, at least not that I'm aware of. Maybe what I can say is that when I think of enlightenment in general I get a feeling that I might lose my desire to have a decent job and make a good salary, and therefore not provide well enough for my children. Maybe there's some ego in there that doesn't want to become like a monk or something. But not 'scared.' I will say that I tend to avoid emotions so maybe that's a fear? But if that's part of this I am ok to face those fears.

(out of curiosity, could you explain what kind of fears the disclaimer meant?)

Please also tell me about what you expect from this process. What do you expect to be different when you clearly see 'no self'?


I think I will feel more 'connected.' Like the world makes sense. I can no longer describe well how I felt when I had my 'spiritual awakening' but I recall kind of a quiet detachment and a sense of joy about life. When I spoke I felt like it came straight from the heart, not through a filter. It felt like I was filled with an energy that bubbled over. I remember writing (which I always wanted to do and never seemed to pull the trigger) and only caring about the act of writing, not about the outcome. So it was effortless and clear. Liberating. Communication with people seemed deeper. It was less about me and maybe more compassionate. I could sit and think of a loved one and feel unbelievable inspiration to say something nice or sweet or loving (which is normally not the case).

Essentially I believe (am I wrong?) that those feelings I felt were somehow related to this no-self thing. At that time it really felt like I had abandoned my ego and it just made life brighter and more defined. I think if I see no self that I won't worry so much about 'me, me, me' because there won't be a feeling of me. I believe those ego feelings really taint everything I do. Maybe what I described is simply "not being driven by ego" but I'm assuming whatever way I get rid of my ego (again) should encourage those things. As I mentioned the stuff I described came from working a 12 step program, the focus of which (I believe) is to help me become less self-centered. If there is no self and I believe it, then all of what I wrote seems reasonable to expect.

Calbert

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DirkPetz
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby DirkPetz » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:12 am

Hello Calbert,

Great start!
Maybe what I can say is that when I think of enlightenment in general I get a feeling that I might lose my desire to have a decent job and make a good salary, and therefore not provide well enough for my children
Variations of this theme are quite common: fear of 'not getting things done anymore', 'not being able to function in the world', and so forth... These are based on misconceptions of what 'this' is all about. Suffice to say here that - if anything - general 'functioning' would be likely to improve, when not spending all that time and effort in continual self-referencing loops. Even if - for some reason - you should end up earning less, you most probably would be taking 'better' care of your children (and the rest of your life) in other ways...

As to your expectations - at first glance - these might not seem particularly unrealistic; however there are a couple of points to be considered about this:

The first thing to observe, is that it is very easy to believe that certain sets of 'data' (by that I mean experiences, 'states of being', feelings, sensations, thoughts, emotions, etc.) should be present (i.e. those that we associate with enlightenment, virtue, wisdom, being 'good', and so on), while certain others, which are deemed to be 'unenlightened' (anger, anxiety, confusion, worry, etc.), are believed to no longer arise.

Expecting such a radical and once-and-for-all shift, is not a very realistic outlook. We cannot choose, nor predict our thoughts, feelings or emotions - neither before, nor after 'enlightenment'.

You might want to test this for yourself: Do you actually know what your next thought or feeling will be? Observe and reflect.

However, what commonly is perceived as changed - once 'no self' is clearly seen - is the way we relate to whatever (ever-changing) experience, thought, feeling, sensation, etc. presents itself. So what can be said to change is how data are perceived (= attitude) rather than necessarily the types of data themselves (which may or may not change).

Please reflect on this. Does that make sense to you?

The other thing is that, however life unfolds - it is hardly ever the way we expected it to be. So, good not to buy into our ideas about all of this too much, but rather observe, what IS :-)


I think I will feel more 'connected.'
Much of the time, you probably will
Like the world makes sense.
I wouldn't bank on that! But then: does it need to make sense to be what it is?
I can no longer describe well how I felt when I had my 'spiritual awakening' but I recall kind of a quiet detachment and a sense of joy about life. When I spoke I felt like it came straight from the heart, not through a filter. It felt like I was filled with an energy that bubbled over. I remember writing (which I always wanted to do and never seemed to pull the trigger) and only caring about the act of writing, not about the outcome. So it was effortless and clear. Liberating. Communication with people seemed deeper. It was less about me and maybe more compassionate. I could sit and think of a loved one and feel unbelievable inspiration to say something nice or sweet or loving (which is normally not the case).
Essentially I believe (am I wrong?) that those feelings I felt were somehow related to this no-self thing.
No, I wouldn't say that you are wrong. However, what is important to appreciate here, is that you are referring to a specific experience, which had a beginning and an end. As beautiful and freeing as this may have been - It is gone now, and nothing but a (fading) memory. Similar experiences or feelings may well arise again (or they may not). The point is that - looking back - you probably recall that at the time you weren't looking for anything at all, but simply felt awake and open to life as it presented itself in the moment. Am I right?

So that is the key here! You might find, that all it takes is to look through a few misconceptions and unexamined assumptions (about the nature of self and reality), which appear to be taking you away from a place that you never left!
At that time it really felt like I had abandoned my ego and it just made life brighter and more defined. I think if I see no self that I won't worry so much about 'me, me, me' because there won't be a feeling of me. I believe those ego feelings really taint everything I do. Maybe what I described is simply "not being driven by ego" but I'm assuming whatever way I get rid of my ego (again) should encourage those things. As I mentioned the stuff I described came from working a 12 step program, the focus of which (I believe) is to help me become less self-centered. If there is no self and I believe it, then all of what I wrote seems reasonable to expect.
This is actually a perfect starting point for our investigation. Let us zoom in on this 'ego' and 'I'.


However, before we do this, I would like to know if you are clear about the 'expectation' part'. Are there any doubts or questions about this, before we move on?

Related to this issue, here is a list about what LU is NOT (you can find this in http://liberationunleashed.com/faq/)
Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.
Anything here that doesn't 'sit' well with you?

Please answer all my questions marked in red.

Looking forward to your answers.

Regards,

Dirk

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:28 pm

Hi Dirk,

Awesome stuff! I pondered overnight and I'll let it percolate on my hour drive to work. I'll reply shortly. I think I had a dream that I was clearly seeing 'no self' or perhaps when drifting into and out of sleep I saw past the engine of my thoughts...

Thanks for helping me with this!

Calbert

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm

Variations of this theme are quite common: fear of 'not getting things done anymore', 'not being able to function in the world', and so forth... These are based on misconceptions of what 'this' is all about. Suffice to say here that - if anything - general 'functioning' would be likely to improve, when not spending all that time and effort in continual self-referencing loops. Even if - for some reason - you should end up earning less, you most probably would be taking 'better' care of your children (and the rest of your life) in other ways...
Ah! That makes perfect sense - when I was in that "non-ego" mode I felt so connected and helpful to my kids - helping them to see why arguing with each other was not helpful - rather than yelling at them to quit it based on it being annoying (to me)
Expecting such a radical and once-and-for-all shift, is not a very realistic outlook. We cannot choose, nor predict our thoughts, feelings or emotions - neither before, nor after 'enlightenment'.

You might want to test this for yourself:

Do you actually know what your next thought or feeling will be? Observe and reflect.
Hmmmm. While I can get caught up in streams of thoughts that 'take me along for the ride' (particularly the negative ones), it does also feel like I can 'steer' my thoughts in this sense: Let's say I'm anticipating going on a date. I can visualize what's likely to happen in a given situation, and then 'steer' the thoughts into a little story about 'then she'll do this, and I'll react like this, and that will lead us here, and if I play my cards right I will get the outcome I want.' In other words I can follow a whole story arc in my head and the story will unfold exactly the way I want it to and I will have a physiologic response to the story. Daydreams.
However, what commonly is perceived as changed - once 'no self' is clearly seen - is the way we relate to whatever (ever-changing) experience, thought, feeling, sensation, etc. presents itself. So what can be said to change is how data are perceived (= attitude) rather than necessarily the types of data themselves (which may or may not change).

Please reflect on this. Does that make sense to you?
Yes, this absolutely makes sense.
Like the world makes sense.
I wouldn't bank on that! But then: does it need to make sense to be what it is?
I think I meant 'my world.' Like why I had certain motivations and why things didn't work out certain ways and why I was previously frustrated when I was living in ego. Without ego, everything seemed clear to me. (ie: "oh! of course he reacted that way to me because my ego was challenging his ego," etc. "That makes sense now!")
No, I wouldn't say that you are wrong. However, what is important to appreciate here, is that you are referring to a specific experience, which had a beginning and an end. As beautiful and freeing as this may have been - It is gone now, and nothing but a (fading) memory. Similar experiences or feelings may well arise again (or they may not). The point is that - looking back - you probably recall that at the time you weren't looking for anything at all, but simply felt awake and open to life as it presented itself in the moment.

Am I right?
That is exactly right. "Awake and open to life" is how I felt and it was delicious!! After 46 years of not feeling that way it was such a freeing experience. I couldn't wait to tell everyone how wonderful I felt. People who knew me well saw the change and basically said "tell me how you got to feel this way because I want it too!"
So that is the key here! You might find, that all it takes is to look through a few misconceptions and unexamined assumptions (about the nature of self and reality), which appear to be taking you away from a place that you never left!
Excellent!
This is actually a perfect starting point for our investigation. Let us zoom in on this 'ego' and 'I'.
Please! Zoom away!
Are there any doubts or questions about this, before we move on?
No doubts. Whether seeing 'no self' is exactly what I saw or if it's somewhat different I'd like to continue. I will be open minded and accepting of wherever it goes, and will try not to focus on what has come and gone.
Related to this issue, here is a list about what LU is NOT

This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.

Anything here that doesn't 'sit' well with you?
I may be a little hung up on this one:
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
Is my confusion the difference between 'seeing' and 'getting rid of?' In other words, this will help me see it, and then I have to get rid of it on my own if I want it to be gotten rid of? Or can you not get rid of ego? Hmmmmmmmm...

Question: When I first read this site I could not grasp what "no self" meant. Of course there is a self, all I need to do is look down and there it is. After reading Gateless Gatecrashers, I am totally on-board with what 'no self' means in the sense that our mind, like a computer program, creates a notion of self-hood and then we use that to filter our direct experience. To me it's like living in that computer program rather than having the direct sensory input go straight into the brain unfiltered. My question is: If I now believe the mind creates a self, am I done? Or can I conceptually believe it, but not really have yet experienced it? In other words is what I'm after the "Aha" moment where I now 'feel' that which I've already begun to believe?

Many thanks Dirk!

Calbert

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DirkPetz
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby DirkPetz » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:07 am

Hello Calbert,
I may be a little hung up on this one:
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
Yes, I imagine.
Is my confusion the difference between 'seeing' and 'getting rid of?' In other words, this will help me see it, and then I have to get rid of it on my own if I want it to be gotten rid of? Or can you not get rid of ego?
The short answer is: There is no ego to get rid of, neither is there a 'you' that could indeed do such a thing. :-)

But let's not try to fly the airplane before we build it - let's take this one step at a time...
Question: When I first read this site I could not grasp what "no self" meant. Of course there is a self, all I need to do is look down and there it is. After reading Gateless Gatecrashers, I am totally on-board with what 'no self' means in the sense that our mind, like a computer program, creates a notion of self-hood and then we use that to filter our direct experience. To me it's like living in that computer program rather than having the direct sensory input go straight into the brain unfiltered.
My question is: If I now believe the mind creates a self, am I done? Or can I conceptually believe it, but not really have yet experienced it? In other words is what I'm after the "Aha" moment where I now 'feel' that which I've already begun to believe?
This is not about believing one thing or the other. Neither is it about understanding something in an intellectual way, or about feeling any specific feelings or sensations. It is about recognizing a simple truth that somehow did not get noticed until now. Let me put this slightly different for emphasis: This is not something to be worked out on a mental level, and I cannot give you the 'answers'. Your questions and my answers won't help you here. You need to see this for yourself, in your own direct experience. And if you follow my pointers and fully apply yourself to this investigation, this can be 'seen', and you won't need my (or anybody else's) explications!

So lets get to work!
At that time it really felt like I had abandoned my ego and it just made life brighter and more defined. I think if I see no self that I won't worry so much about 'me, me, me' because there won't be a feeling of me. I believe those ego feelings really taint everything I do. Maybe what I described is simply "not being driven by ego" but I'm assuming whatever way I get rid of my ego (again) should encourage those things.
While I can get caught up in streams of thoughts that 'take me along for the ride' (particularly the negative ones), it does also feel like I can 'steer' my thoughts in this sense: Let's say I'm anticipating going on a date. I can visualize what's likely to happen in a given situation, and then 'steer' the thoughts into a little story about 'then she'll do this, and I'll react like this, and that will lead us here, and if I play my cards right I will get the outcome I want.'
O.K. From what I have heard so far - on a base level - you seem to assume that is that there is you (who is somewhat independent and separate from the rest of reality), and this 'you' seems to have a certain amount of control - albeit only within limits - over your thoughts, your life, etc. And then there is a part of you - your ego - that seems to be 'problematic' (and somehow ruining the whole show), and needs to be eliminated or at least kept at bay. Is that about right?

Don't worry. This is what the whole world believes to be the case, and what is commonly accepted as 'consensus reality'. However this is not at all what teachers and sages of virtually all esoteric traditions have been hinting at for millennia. So let's challenge the above assumptions, one by one...

In order to do that we need a tool - direct present moment experience. By direct experience I mean anything that is perceived, but WITHOUT going into the content of thoughs (i.e. stories!).
So direct experiencing could be said to encompass the following aspects:
being (the undeniable sense of presence / aliveness / lucidity)
sensing (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling)
thinking (in the sense that thoughts are seen to come and go, but don't need to be focused upon as far as their content is concerned)


So, to get a feel for this, and with the above in mind: please do the following exercise, investigating what is actually happening in this present moment. Test this for yourself - you are the authority! Take your time with this! Afterwards, answer the questions in red.

-------------------------

Sit still and comfortably, with your eyes closed. Let thoughts simply pass by, without going into their content. Don't rely on any memories, expectations, or mental images – just go by what is given by your own present evidence. See “what is”!

Where are your boundaries?
Do you have any boundaries?
Is there any place where you stop and the rest of the world begins?
Can you find an inside or an outside?
On direct evidence - do you have any size or shape now?

Or isn't there just a clear, lucid, limitless space?


And in this infinite aware space lots of things are happening...
Sensations are coming...
Sensations are going...
warmth, cold, pressure, maybe discomfort?
the sensations change, but the clear aware space - the experiencING in itself - remains unchanged


Also in this space-like intelligence: sounds are coming and going
Sounds are born, develop... and die...
Coming out of nowhere – and going back to nowhere…

Equally with thoughts... Arising, developing and disappearing...

Is the clear intelligent space in any way affect by all these ever-changing sensations or thoughts?

Without thinking: Do you have a name now? What about your personality, age, race, profession, gender?
On direct evidence: Are any of these things given?
Can you really say:'I am this or that' right now?
Can you really say anything at all?


------------------------------

Looking forward to read your reflections.

Dirk

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:14 pm

The short answer is: There is no ego to get rid of, neither is there a 'you' that could indeed do such a thing. :-)

But let's not try to fly the airplane before we build it - let's take this one step at a time...
Lol, I get it. Funny metaphor :)
You need to see this for yourself, in your own direct experience. And if you follow my pointers and fully apply yourself to this investigation, this can be 'seen', and you won't need my (or anybody else's) explications!

So lets get to work!
Yes!
O.K. From what I have heard so far - on a base level - you seem to assume that is that there is you (who is omewhat independent and separate from the rest of reality), and this 'you' seems to have a certain amount of control - albeit only within limits - over your thoughts, your life, etc. And then there is a part of you - your ego - that seems to be 'problematic' (and somehow ruining the whole show), and needs to be eliminated or at least kept at bay. Is that about right?
Yes. Yes, that's what I think. I am glad you can see that so as to best help me.
So direct experiencing could be said to encompass the following aspects:
being (the undeniable sense of presence / aliveness / lucidity)
sensing (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling)
thinking (in the sense that thoughts are seen to come and go, but don't need to be focused upon as far as their content is concerned)

Sit still and comfortably, with your eyes closed. Let thoughts simply pass by, without going into their content. Don't rely on any memories, expectations, or mental images – just go by what is given by your own present evidence. See “what is”!

Where are your boundaries?
Boundaries seem to feel like a field around me. Mostly in my arms and legs. Like a blurry sheath over them.
Do you have any boundaries?
Nothing solid but it doesnt "feel" unlimited. Maybe it fades out a few inches from my body.
Is there any place where you stop and the rest of the world begins?
My hands and elbows are on the table. That firmness feels like something blocking "me."
Can you find an inside or an outside?
It does kind of feel like a fuzzy "outline" of me, so maybe it's all outside and no inside (?)
On direct evidence - do you have any size or shape now?
No.
Or isn't there just a clear, lucid, limitless space?
I'm not sure it feels like space. Instead I feel like my 'sense of being' (from above) is compacted into a space. Like a vibration/energy in a ball that radiates outwardly for a very short distance. A fuzzy, energetic cotton ball. (lol)
And in this infinite aware space lots of things are happening...
Sensations are coming...
Sensations are going...
warmth, cold, pressure, maybe discomfort?
the sensations change, but the clear aware space - the experiencING in itself - remains unchanged
Yes. My elbows on the table are uncomfortable and remind me that I'm me. That I should shift.
Also in this space-like intelligence: sounds are coming and going
Sounds are born, develop... and die...
Coming out of nowhere – and going back to nowhere…

Equally with thoughts... Arising, developing and disappearing...

Is the clear intelligent space in any way affect by all these ever-changing sensations or thoughts?
Sometimes a jarring noise feels like a physical ripple.
Sounds of people talking down the hall float in and keep me somewhat alert.

Maybe I should do this when I'm alone? I figured I should still be able to 'see' this regardless of environment.
Without thinking: Do you have a name now? What about your personality, age, race, profession, gender?
On direct evidence: Are any of these things given?
Can you really say:'I am this or that' right now?
Can you really say anything at all?
From direct perception, No, I don't need a name. My personality and details can't be seen. But I still feel like "me." Perhaps I have a profession because I'm sitting at my work desk during lunch. Maybe the sounds of people and the desk on my elbows is too much?

I will try do it again tonight after my children go to bed.

Any comments meanwhile?

Thanks!

Calbert

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DirkPetz
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby DirkPetz » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:54 pm

Hey Calbert,
Maybe I should do this when I'm alone? I figured I should still be able to 'see' this regardless of environment.
Any comments meanwhile?
Good point. Yes, good to do this alone, for the time being: quite and comfortable environment. Do this like a meditation exercise. Senses wide open, not looking for anything in particular, not scanning the body or any part of it for any sensation. Just letting everything come and go as it may...

Be extremely alert as to the assumptions that are sneaking in almost immediately. For example: sitting still with your eyes closed - and not using thought, memory or imagination - how do even know that you have 'hands' and 'elbows', and that these are on a 'table'?

So go further back! Zooming out. And out...
Play around with this a bit!

If there is discomfort, feel free to shift. You are not in a Zen Dojo - nobody's gonna hit you with a stick! :-)

Cheers

Dirk

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:37 pm

Gotcha! (hands) Will do!

Makes sense........

Meanwhile - are there things I can do in 'real life' to help me? Like as I drive can I ponder something or focus somehow... ask myself stuff about things?

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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby DirkPetz » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:19 am

A good one for the car, going to the gym, etc. is the LU audios (Enlightening Quotes) - you can download them at http://liberationunleashed.com/audio/

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:34 pm

Thank you! I have the phone app but even though there is no self it's probably not a good idea to be reading my phone while driving and crash into other no-selves.

I didn't get to sit in silence last night as my kids were bouncing off the walls. I was trying to explain the concept of no self to them and it was interesting to note that I feel a little more connected to the idea when I hear myself explaining it. One of my examples that I use (and have felt, but not for a while now) is this:

Stop and stare at a tree. It is this huge, magnificent life form doing all sorts of mysterious 'living' things inside of it - grabbing carbon dioxide, splitting it apart, using the components, pulling water from the ground, transporting it up to the top, pushing out these green leaves which are essentially solar panels, etc. And we, as humans, walk right past it, dismissively label it a simple four letter word "tree" and then we file that away in our brain in a little box. It's like we turn it into almost nothing, and then 'dominate' it by trapping it inside of us like we are somehow better than it or master of it. What I was telling my kids is that the truth is, we are not separate beings, but we are the same thing as this tree, just that our eyes are being used by this one entity of life as another viewpoint into the world. That a human is the only animal which thinks it is somehow separate from all the other life, and that the reason we do that is because we have been 'trained' to see things that way. That the little 'computer' in our head has latched onto the idea of "me, me, me" and now everything we look at is filtered through this programming. When I talk about it I get this energy and a sense of urgency about it. There is definitely still a sense of "me" but it feels like when I talk like this I'm setting myself up to seeing through it. At the same time I do see how my ego has latched on to knowing and explaining things to other people rather than simply staying internal with these concepts. In a sense, this is me labeling the no self concept as a "tree," and I recognize the irony.

Once at a 12 step meeting I shared that "I've figured it out! The problem is my ego, and now I'm using my ego to take pride in figuring it out!" It's like I had this one little crack in the facade, saw the other side, and instantly my ego grabbed it and I went right back to being 'that guy.'

I will try to find some alone time today or tonight and I'll go through your questions. Thank you very much for the time you are taking to help me.

Calbert

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Calbert
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Re: Could someone please guide me?

Postby Calbert » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:18 pm

Hey Dirk,

Did some meditating last night but got too tired toward the end to stay awake to write. Will try again shortly (mid-day) and keep your questions in mind.

And yes, I see that I am thinking way too much. Need to shut that down...

Calbert


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