request for a guide

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Divya
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request for a guide

Postby Divya » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:12 pm

It feels like I have an intellectual understanding of no- separated self but I am not sure if there is a deep realization on an experience level. I investigated what is this “I “that I have been referring to all my life. I was stunned when I started to see it that it may not exist at all. I would like some help with pointers and checking with me if I can see/experience what is real. I would appreciate if you can guide me . Divya

tanyawilliams86
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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:58 pm

Hi Divya,

That sounds like a good start on this investigation. I can be your guide.

“There are a few guidelines to guide this dialogue, please respond to confirm:
1. You agree to post at least once a day.
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Love Tanya

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Divya
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Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:18 pm

Hi Tanya,

Thank you so much for your response.

There are my replies to your questions:

1. Yes, I agree to post at least once a day.
2. Yes, I will respond to your questions
3. Yes, I will give the most honest answers
4. I will look at my direct experiences not philosophical understanding when giving the answer
5. I will put aside all other teaching while we have this dialogue.
6. I checked the link how to use quote function. I usually type in word document to avoid spelling mistakes.

Thank you , Divya

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Divya
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Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:21 pm

Hi Tanya,

Sorry, I sent the email using a quote function. I am re-sending it.

Thank you so much for your response.

There are my replies to your questions:

1. I agree to post at least one a day.
2. Yes, I will respond to your questions
3. Yes, I will give the most honest answers
4. I will look at my direct experiences not philosophical understanding when giving the answer
5. I will put aside all other teaching while we have this dialogue.
6. I checked the link how to use quote function.

Thank you

Divya

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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:20 pm

Hi Divya,

Great! Now the investigation may begin :)
What are your expectations for liberation?
How will this feel?

The quote function is a little tricky at first. Feel free to ask any questions about it :)

Love Tanya

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Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:58 pm

Hi Tanya,

[quote][What are your expectations for liberation? /quote]

Breaking an illusion of separateness through direct seeing and experiencing.

[quote][/How will this feel?quote]

It feels like clarity, completeness, fullness, the end of searching . Being at home.

tanyawilliams86
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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:31 am

Hi Divya,
Breaking an illusion of separateness through direct seeing and experiencing.

Cool. Sounds like you know the 'tool' that will be used to investigate the illusion of separation.
It feels like clarity, completeness, fullness, the end of searching . Being at home.
Ok, good to see these expectations as what may show up after seeing no self. Sadness,anger etc still show up after seeing but they aren't you :)
This list of expectations is important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations are about the future. But liberation cannot be found in the future.

Go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises in the body. Is there any resistance to any of it?

Here's how to use the quote function:
1.Post by pressing “Post Reply” (purple-orange button in the left corner of the bottom of the page). If you press “Quick Reply” it won’t work.
2.Under the text box all the previous posts will appear. You can also “Expand view” of the previous posts if it’s needed. The ‘Expand View’ button hasn’t got a button shape, just black latter. This is above the box of all previous conversations. At the upper left side of the box is: “Topic view + the title of the thread” with white letters, and the right upper side is: ‘Expand View’ with black letters.
3.Select/highlight the lines you’d like to quote.
4.Press the quote button, (purple-orange button at the upper-right corner) above all the previous conversations. After pressing it, the text automatically being put into the text box.
5.Go to the text box, and UNDER the quoted text, write your reply.
6.You have to repeat the process with all the quotes.
Hope that makes using the quote function easier :)

Love Tanya

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Divya
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Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:05 pm

Hi Tanya,
Go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises in the body. Is there any resistance to any of it?
In the moment of writing this email I feel a lot of sensation in my chest area. It is a sensation of sadness, and when I go deeper I feel pain. I went through my list of expectations and I found difficult at the moment to connect with the essence of these words (clarity, completeness, fullness, end of searching, being at home). They feel sweet on a surface but I feel pain right now. I am not sure what these words really mean at the moment. I had an emotional reaction to “being at home”. I started to cry. I felt longing for something ….for a rest… for losing a need to protect myself.
Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations are about the future. But liberation cannot be found in the future.
I had also reaction to these words. I felt hopelessness of being trapped in expectations. I experienced strong sensation in the center of my chest – like sharp aching. I felt a strong need to hold to the hope as the way of surviving. I felt tension in the whole body.

Love

Divya

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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:22 pm

Hi Divya,
In the moment of writing this email I feel a lot of sensation in my chest area. It is a sensation of sadness, and when I go deeper I feel pain. I went through my list of expectations and I found difficult at the moment to connect with the essence of these words (clarity, completeness, fullness, end of searching, being at home). They feel sweet on a surface but I feel pain right now. I am not sure what these words really mean at the moment. I had an emotional reaction to “being at home”. I started to cry. I felt longing for something ….for a rest… for losing a need to protect myself.
It is very natural to feel this way when investigating in this way.An expectation is nothing more than a mental concept. In order to compare it with the current experience, the current experience needs to be conceptualized. As a result, there ‘are’ two mentally fabricated constructs that can be matched up, with a ‘result’ of putting a label of either “this is liberation” or “this is not” onto the experience.
But you don’t have to do anything with these expectations. Don’t try to push them away, change them, manipulate them. Don’t do anything with them, don’t touch them, just observe them. These are nothing more than the content of arising thoughts, here and now. That’s all; nothing more, nothing serious, nothing ‘real’.
I had also reaction to these words. I felt hopelessness of being trapped in expectations. I experienced strong sensation in the center of my chest – like sharp aching. I felt a strong need to hold to the hope as the way of surviving. I felt tension in the whole body.
Just by noticing this you're unattaching from these sensations and thoughts. Bringing light to them.
Happiness or peace is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Liberation is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting whatever is arising in this moment.
Many seekers believe that liberation is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case.
Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity ‘self’ is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual.

For example, did you ever once believe that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy was real? If you did at one point, and don't now, does the experience of discovery last? Or is it that the knowledge that there is no such thing as Santa or Tooth Fairy is just another ‘fact’?

Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.

So is there an expectation (belief) that after seeing through the illusion of the self the illusion SHOULD STOP APPEARING with no more identification with the I-thought and stories?
The illusion won’t stop, it will continue to appear, but it is seen only as an illusion, not as a ‘reality’.
Let’s say you are in a desert and there is a mirage in the distance.
Does the mirage go away just because it is seen as a mirage and not believed to be an oasis?
Or the illusion of the mirage still appears, and the only difference that it is not believed to be ‘real’?
When the mirage is seen only as an illusion, does it matter whether it is there or not?


Love
Tanya <3

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Divya
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Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:00 pm

Hi Tanya,

your email clarified a few things for me.
But you don’t have to do anything with these expectations. Don’t try to push them away, change them, manipulate them. Don’t do anything with them, don’t touch them, just observe them. These are nothing more than the content of arising thoughts, here and now. That’s all; nothing more, nothing serious, nothing ‘real’
I can see this. Sometimes the attention/noticing identify with these mental concepts and sometimes does not. It is a bit of moving backwards and forwards for me at the moment.
Just by noticing this you're unattaching from these sensations and thoughts. Bringing light to them
Yes, I can see/experience that noticing keeps me in a neutral position. If I add mental concepts to this noticing it takes me into an unfolding story and I can easily lose this non-judgmental position. But I can also see that sometimes the story unfolds and there is still noticing of it. What did you mean by saying “bringing light to them”. Is it about the light energy of not attachment? I am guessing it is not about bringing the light concept to this noticing.
Happiness or peace is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change
Yes, this has been my experience and realization for sometime now. It is clear to me that all sates, feelings, thoughts, concepts, etc are continuously changing. Knowing/experiencing this actually brings easiness in experiencing it.
Liberation is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting whatever is arising in this moment.
This is still an intellectual understanding of liberation in my case. I can say that I believe what you said. However, on some very deeper level there is an intuitive resonance that this is truth.
Many seekers believe that liberation is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case.
I can humbly say that this has been my belief too.
Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity ‘self’ is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual.

Did you ever once believe that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy was real? If you did at one point, and don't now, does the experience of discovery last? Or is it that the knowledge that there is no such thing as Santa or Tooth Fairy is just another ‘fact’?
I am noticing nostalgia after reading these words. Ok, I am connecting now with the reality expressed by these words. Yes, the experience of my discovery didn’t last but the realization reminded.
So is there an expectation (belief) that after seeing through the illusion of the self the illusion SHOULD STOP APPEARING with no more identification with the I-thought and stories?
Yes, I can see the fantasy of this belief. The example with Santa Claus helped me to connect with experience of what remains when the illusion drops. I still see Santa Claus over Christmas and I love seeing him. It would just never be possible to believe that he is real, even if I want him so much to be real.
The illusion won’t stop, it will continue to appear, but it is seen only as an illusion, not as a ‘reality’.
Let’s say you are in a desert and there is a mirage in the distance.
Does the mirage go away just because it is seen as a mirage and not believed to be an oasis?
Or the illusion of the mirage still appears, and the only difference that it is not believed to be ‘real’?
When the mirage is seen only as an illusion, does it matter whether it is there or not?
yes, these words just confirms my discovery. I can see this clearly.

I really enjoyed going through your email and checking how your words are reflected in my experiences. I feel that i got some clarification here.

much love

Divya

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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:43 pm

Hi Divya,
your email clarified a few things for me.
Cool :) LOOKING at these things in actual experience clears a lot of things up. That's what I'm here to help with.
I can see this. Sometimes the attention/noticing identify with these mental concepts and sometimes does not. It is a bit of moving backwards and forwards for me at the moment.
This fluctuation of seeming to move backward and forwards can happen for a while. Can you see though that although the attention seems to come and go that YOU don't? Having a look at thoughts will help with this.

Thought is based in language and language can be very confusing as it presumes a subject at all times. Does the habit of referring back to thoughts about ‘me’ indicate an entity, or a ‘driver’ of any kind in ‘reality’? Or have you merely accepted the apparent implication that language produces that if there is an action then there must be a doer or a driver? Go to the actual experience and check it.
Yes, I can see/experience that noticing keeps me in a neutral position. If I add mental concepts to this noticing it takes me into an unfolding story and I can easily lose this non-judgmental position. But I can also see that sometimes the story unfolds and there is still noticing of it. What did you mean by saying “bringing light to them”. Is it about the light energy of not attachment? I am guessing it is not about bringing the light concept to this noticing.
Can you find a notice or is there just noticing? Is there anything separate noticing?
Maybe 'bringing light to them' wasn't what I was trying to convey :) Yes I was referring to non attachment. But attachment can happen but the thing is to be kind with yourself and not judge for attaching :)
Yes, this has been my experience and realization for sometime now. It is clear to me that all sates, feelings, thoughts, concepts, etc are continuously changing. Knowing/experiencing this actually brings easiness in experiencing it.
Excellent :) Is there any difference between knowing and experiencing?
This is still an intellectual understanding of liberation in my case. I can say that I believe what you said. However, on some very deeper level there is an intuitive resonance that this is truth
.
I understand, this one can take a while to unfold. There is an underlying peace under all emotions whether they are 'good' or 'bad'. 'Good' and 'bad' are just labels thought puts on sensations felt in the body. You could look at this over the next day or so staying with strong sensations without buying into the thoughts that accompany them.

I can humbly say that this has been my belief too.
Life or outer circumstances won’t change with seeing through the self. Life is always is as it is. Only the perception changes. So everything will be the same, although everything might look different.It is important to know that this is not about self-improvement. The result won’t be a better version of ‘me’. Expecting this is a huge obstacle.

I am noticing nostalgia after reading these words. Ok, I am connecting now with the reality expressed by these words. Yes, the experience of my discovery didn’t last but the realization reminded.
Yes experiences never last they are always changing. Clinging to any experience leads to suffering. Do you mean the realization remained?
Yes, I can see the fantasy of this belief. The example with Santa Claus helped me to connect with experience of what remains when the illusion drops. I still see Santa Claus over Christmas and I love seeing him. It would just never be possible to believe that he is real, even if I want him so much to be real.
What's seen can't be unseen and you see that :)
yes, these words just confirms my discovery. I can see this clearly.

I really enjoyed going through your email and checking how your words are reflected in my experiences. I feel that i got some clarification here.
Great! I very much enjoy inquiring into what is and being a mirror for reflection :)
We cannot say that there is no self, because in order to be able to say it we have to see the self first, in order to be able to negate it.

So we can only say that a self cannot be found, except as a thought.

So, is there an 'I' right here, right now in this moment other than a thought?

Much love,

Tanya

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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:08 pm

To Divya,
Another thing I wanted to mention is if anything I write resonates with you it is not because there is a ‘teacher’ and ‘student’ relationship, that would imply duality. It resonates because it’s recognised that you’ve known it innately all along. This inquiry is not about ‘becoming’ something at a ‘future/time’.

Love Tanya

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Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:10 pm

Hi Tanya,
Can you see though that although the attention seems to come and go that YOU don't? Having a look at thoughts will help with this.
This is still a bit tricky. I spent a bit of time looking at this. The attention is moving from one place to another place – that is clear. Sometimes focus is on thoughts, sometimes on feelings, sensations, it seems to move slower or faster. It seems to identify or not …It also seems like something sees this. I am not sure what that is , knowing now that is not “I – thought”. There is still an impression that IT is not always present, especially when the attention identifies with thoughts, feelings or sensation, experience etc. However, while doing this investigation in slow motions, I can see that my previous statement is illogical because Something sees identifications too so it is always there. It is very interesting. I would like to explore this further if have another pointers to IT.
Does the habit of referring back to thoughts about ‘me’ indicate an entity, or a ‘driver’ of any kind in ‘reality’? Or have you merely accepted the apparent implication that language produces that if there is an action then there must be a doer or a driver? Go to the actual experience and check it.
This truth expressed in your words has become factual to me. I have been investigating “this entity – I/ME for a while and I can’t find it. I investigated how “I – subject” function without “I thought” and life seems to go on with its challenges and enjoyment, giving an impression that it doesn’t need “ME thought” to unfold. Things are done or not done but it seems like they don’t depend on “ME – subject”. There is still a slight bizarreness in this experience and I won’t be able to give a confident answer of who I am because truly I don’t know. I feel aliveness so I assume I must exist in some way, ha, ha...
Can you find a notice or is there just noticing? Is there anything separate noticing?
This is also a bit tricky/unclear. There is noticing, like seeing, thinking, feeling, experiencing , etc but it feels like there is something else because that “something” can see it. Does this “something else” come only from the mind? The true answer is I don't know .
Is there any difference between knowing and experiencing?
This spots my confusion which I expressed in my previous fragment. It feels like experience is flow of life, movement with many different flavours, doesn’t have a purpose or meaning, it is unpredictable. Knowing feels like awareness of these experiences. I am not sure about my last sentences as it may came form the mind which tries to put a meaning to experiences.
There is an underlying peace under all emotions whether they are 'good' or 'bad'. 'Good' and 'bad' are just labels thought puts on sensations felt in the body. You could look at this over the next day or so staying with strong sensations without buying into the thoughts that accompany them.
Yes, I am looking at this. I want to look at this over next week or longer as I want to go through different states and see how much I am buying into the thoughts that accompany my experience. At the moment if feels like most of the time there is a story attached to experiences.
Life or outer circumstances won’t change with seeing through the self. Life is always is as it is. Only the perception changes. So everything will be the same, although everything might look different.It is important to know that this is not about self-improvement. The result won’t be a better version of ‘me’. Expecting this is a huge obstacle.
I am glad that this expectation has been challenged within me. I can see that expectation is another illusion or any projections of the future outcome is only an obstacle of true seeing. I can see that any experience is actually unknown and it is only the mind that attaches an interpretation of it.
Do you mean the realization remained?
Yes, I am not English so please ask if something is unclear or misspelled.
So we can only say that a self cannot be found, except as a thought. So, is there an 'I' right here, right now in this moment other than a thought?
So, if I experience a self as “don’t know”, it is because it can’t be found? It can appear as a thought but it seems not to be its true expression as it is true expression is unknowable and unfound? I am putting these in questions as I want to contemplate it. It feels like a movement is taking place. It basically feels deep and moving … not sure how else to express it. It is a penetrating movement.
Another thing I wanted to mention is if anything I write resonates with you it is not because there is a ‘teacher’ and ‘student’ relationship, that would imply duality. It resonates because it’s recognised that you’ve known it innately all along. This inquiry is not about ‘becoming’ something at a ‘future/time’.
Yes, that is clear. I can only say that feelings of deep appreciation are appearing right now.

thank you Tanya,

much love

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Re: request for a guide

Postby tanyawilliams86 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Hey Divya,
This is still a bit tricky. I spent a bit of time looking at this. The attention is moving from one place to another place – that is clear. Sometimes focus is on thoughts, sometimes on feelings, sensations, it seems to move slower or faster. It seems to identify or not …It also seems like something sees this. I am not sure what that is , knowing now that is not “I – thought”. There is still an impression that IT is not always present, especially when the attention identifies with thoughts, feelings or sensation, experience etc. However, while doing this investigation in slow motions, I can see that my previous statement is illogical because Something sees identifications too so it is always there. It is very interesting. I would like to explore this further if have another pointers to IT.
You can keep looking at this until this becomes clearer. Anything we look at here doesn't have a 'time limit' on it :).Yes, thoughts seem to veil IT but do they really? When thoughts aren't there you don't exist? When feelings aren't there you're not either? When there is sensations you're not present?
When sitting and looking, there will be looking happening all by itself, or the same with the additional sense/idea that "Divya is looking". Simply see that idea for what it is. Not to push it away. Just to see it clearly as an idea, an assumption, of a "Divya", for so long, seemingly at the centre of experience - and now, there's a growing seeing that life does not need an "intermediary", as "person" to do, think, act, eat, walk, breathe."

Go with the noticing aspect for now. Confusion comes when we try and work it out rather than just see it.
This truth expressed in your words has become factual to me. I have been investigating “this entity – I/ME for a while and I can’t find it. I investigated how “I – subject” function without “I thought” and life seems to go on with its challenges and enjoyment, giving an impression that it doesn’t need “ME thought” to unfold. Things are done or not done but it seems like they don’t depend on “ME – subject”. There is still a slight bizarreness in this experience and I won’t be able to give a confident answer of who I am because truly I don’t know. I feel aliveness so I assume I must exist in some way, ha, ha...
Yes life just flows as it will without the "ME thought". It's quite beautiful :) and great that this has been noticed. Maybe the bizarreness is because it feels like a different way of looking at things although this is how it has always been.
The standard view of 'I', 'me' is that of a person - A body with a mind.
The standard view is that 'I' refers to this body that appears here in awareness. I am this body. Also 'I' have control over this body.
Since 'I' am this body, 'I' see, 'I' hear, 'I' feel etc - I perform all the senses.
This body was born - It will live a number of years - And then it (I) will die.

Feel free to reject what I have suggested if they don't match what you currently believe yourself to be
Currently, would it be fair to say that you believe that currently you are a person sitting in a chair, looking at a computer screen and reading words off it right now?

What does the word 'I' point to?
What makes this body ‘yours’?
What makes this body ‘you’?

This is also a bit tricky/unclear. There is noticing, like seeing, thinking, feeling, experiencing , etc but it feels like there is something else because that “something” can see it. Does this “something else” come only from the mind? The true answer is I don't know .
Ok lets look at the senses for a start.
Seeing
Currently there are words on the screen being read. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What reads these words?
Is there anything that is reading, or reading is just happening?
Look around in the room. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What sees?
Is there a seer somewhere, or there is just seeing happening?
Hearing
Pay attention for the background sounds. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestions of thoughts.
Does a hearer arise in the actual experience?
Is there somewhere a hearer, of just hearing happening?
Smelling
Smell something, an orange, coffee or the hand.
In the fragrance that arises, is there any direct evidence that there is a smeller (or a nose) that is doing the smelling, or is there only smelling?
Touching
With eyes closed, put one of the hands onto the table. Pay attention only to the pure sensation.
Does the pure sensation itself suggest in any way that the hand is doing the touching?
Does the pure sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a hand (subject) that touching the table (object), or is there only touching?
When all mental images and thoughts are ignored is there a ‘hand’ or a ‘table’ at all, or is there only touching (pure sensation)?


Of course, thoughts and mental images suggest ‘explanations’, but when they are examined closely, are they really the case?
This spots my confusion which I expressed in my previous fragment. It feels like experience is flow of life, movement with many different flavours, doesn’t have a purpose or meaning, it is unpredictable. Knowing feels like awareness of these experiences. I am not sure about my last sentences as it may came form the mind which tries to put a meaning to experiences.
You're onto something with that first sentence :) Experience is flow of live, a movement with many flavours with no purpose or meaning, unpredictable. Could it be possible that experience and knowing are one and the same? Are you aware of this sentence?
Observe this:
Say out loud the word ‘I’ several times. At the same time try to trace back where the word ‘I’ point to. Try to localise where is the ‘I’ exactly.
You can observe that whenever the word ‘I’ is said or even thought about the focus of attention goes automatically to the bodily sensations (usually somewhere to the upper body or head or both). So there is a direct, automatic association between the word ‘I’ and the felt sensations in the body.
So the word ‘I’ and the bodily sensations are welded together, creating the SENSE of ‘me’. The ‘sense’ part is coming from the felt sensations, and ‘me’ part is coming as a thought. When this is not seen, BOOM! The illusion of ‘me’ is created. Can you see this?
So, can the ‘I’ be found in the actual experience other than a thought?
Yes, I am looking at this. I want to look at this over next week or longer as I want to go through different states and see how much I am buying into the thoughts that accompany my experience. At the moment if feels like most of the time there is a story attached to experiences.
Ok, yeah definitely keep looking :) Just remember that you're not aiming to maintain a certain state or experience :)
I am glad that this expectation has been challenged within me. I can see that expectation is another illusion or any projections of the future outcome is only an obstacle of true seeing. I can see that any experience is actually unknown and it is only the mind that attaches an interpretation of it.
Excellent that will really help LOOKING :) and I would add that all experience is known but it doesn't require any input from thoughts to BE <3
Yes, I am not English so please ask if something is unclear or misspelled.
Ok :) I understood what you were saying. I just like to ask a question to be clear what's being said


So, if I experience a self as “don’t know”, it is because it can’t be found? It can appear as a thought but it seems not to be its true expression as it is true expression is unknowable and unfound? I am putting these in questions as I want to contemplate it. It feels like a movement is taking place. It basically feels deep and moving … not sure how else to express it. It is a penetrating movement.

It can be hard to put into words, I get that, I really do :). I would love to hear the answers to those questions you've just asked to contemplate. The answer doesn't come from thoughts.
Yes, that is clear. I can only say that feelings of deep appreciation are appearing right now.

thank you Tanya,
<3 <3 <3 Thank you also for some excellent looking.

Love Tanya

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Divya
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Location: london

Re: request for a guide

Postby Divya » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:44 pm

Hi Tanya,

I keep looking at my experience on daily basis. It feels like a fun. It is like questioning everything and checking if this is truth what is really happening. I am noticing differences between pure experiencing and mental concept attached to it. There is no judgment what feels better but looking at it closely feels intriguing.
Yes, thoughts seem to veil IT but do they really? When thoughts aren't there you don't exist? When feelings aren't there you're not either? When there is sensations you're not present?
I am looking at it and … yes this seems to be true. There are no feelings for a second or longer and I am not disappearing. The same applies to sensations and thoughts. Yes, I can see this now ….
When sitting and looking, there will be looking happening all by itself, or the same with the additional sense/idea that "Divya is looking". Simply see that idea for what it is. Not to push it away. Just to see it clearly as an idea, an assumption, of a "Divya", for so long, seemingly at the centre of experience - and now, there's a growing seeing that life does not need an "intermediary", as "person" to do, think, act, eat, walk, breathe."
yes, I am noticing the experience + attached mental concept of them. I also see that a mental concept is not always present and there is only experience – looking, sitting, breathing … these experience seem to be effortless, there is also no need to name them – just experiencing. I can’t stop my heart beating , can’t stop other functions of my body. It is clear that all of this is happening by itself , working perfectly well.
Currently, would it be fair to say that you believe that currently you are a person sitting in a chair, looking at a computer screen and reading words off it right now?
No, that belief has been challenged and doesn’t have a great power anymore. I can see that I am not that person sitting in a chair. I don’t know clearly who I am but I recognize slowly what I am not.
Currently there are words on the screen being read. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What reads these words?
Is there anything that is reading, or reading is just happening?
I like this exercise. So when there are thoughts attached to experience it feel like someone reads these words. But when it is only experience, without thoughts (even if they are present but without the attention) there is only reading happening. I like seeing these differences in experiencing.
Look around in the room. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What sees?
Is there a seer somewhere, or there is just seeing happening?
No seer, just seeing. Yes, this is very clear. I can see how much thoughts influence a real experience and make them into something else. Wow, so clear but ignored for so long.
Could it be possible that experience and knowing are one and the same? Are you aware of this sentence?
After investigating I can see that there the experience and knowing are the same but have a different flavour.
So the word ‘I’ and the bodily sensations are welded together, creating the SENSE of ‘me’. The ‘sense’ part is coming from the felt sensations, and ‘me’ part is coming as a thought. When this is not seen, BOOM! The illusion of ‘me’ is created. Can you see this?
So, can the ‘I’ be found in the actual experience other than a thought?
It is clear for me that the sense of a person and a sense of individual "I" comes from the mind and it gives an impression to be a truth. I can’t see this as a truth anymore.

I really enjoy looking at these experiences. Thank you very much.

love

Divya


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