Requesting a Guide

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4connection
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Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:44 pm

Hello, my name is Jane and I am ready for an experience of being guided.

A little about me...I am a mother/grandmother who has done a lot of personal growth work including meditation for what seems like a very long time but with no lasting results. Tapes still play and I see the cycling going around and around the block. I do know this is a "get it" moment in my history and that I am wired for it. And, admittedly, there is also an impish part that feels resistive and wants to just go out and play.

I am grateful for all you are doing with this program and look forward to being assisted with my journey!!

Jane

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Hopefulness
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:02 am

Hello Jane,
It appears there is a shortage of red guides, and they are asking even blues to come and help. I went through the gate back in January but haven't done any guiding yet. I'm pretty sure how the routine goes though so in a way it would be a learning process for us both. If you'd rather wait for a more seasoned guide, I would certainly understand, and no hard feelings. If you're O.K. with it let me know and I'll start getting some background stuff from you tomorrow. If at any time during the guiding process you feel like you're not getting anywhere, then I'll find someone else for you that maybe can shake things up again. You've at least come to the right place though.

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4connection
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:14 am

Yes, Hopefulness, I would very much be willing to begin the process with you! I also look forward to finishing the process with you although, I must admit, I have a bit of a stubborn and active mind. I much appreciate this opportunity for learning on both of our parts!
Jane

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Hopefulness
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:17 pm

Great. I hope to be with you all the way through as well. I just wasn't sure how you'd feel about not working with a more seasoned guide. Here are your background questions. Write a lot on the expectations.(If you have them).

WARNING: This board will time out and automatically log you out in just a few minutes. Do NOT post your answers in the POST REPLY box below. If you do, and the board logs you out automatically, all of your information will disappear when you hit the POST REPLY button. Write your answers in a word processor of your choice, and then cut and paste into the POST REPLY box below. Now, let’s get you started.
1 Do you currently have a religion? Is so, what is it, and are you active in it?
2 A first name if you're O.K. with posting it?
3 How old you are? Ladies you don't have to be exact. :)
4 How long you've been on the so-called spiritual journey?
5a What started you on it, feeling of separation, painful event, religious upbringing?
5b what have you done along the way in terms of reading or practices, etc.? Be descriptive so don't worry about it being too long.
6 If you meditate, what kind of meditation do you do, and for how long have you been doing it?
7 What is the goal of this meditation?
8 Has meditation achieved this goal?
9 What country are you from? What state if the U.S.?
10 What are your goals in life
11 What are your expectations for liberation. What do you expect it to do for you. Write a LOT on this one.
Eg. A. Constant bliss
B. Knowledge of all answers
C. Magical powers
D. etc., etc., etc.
12 What do you expect to be after liberation, if attained?
13 How do you define your "self"?
14 Do you have any hobbies?
15 Are you left handed or right.
16 What is the most beautiful nature scene you have ever seen?
17 Is there any music you've listened to that makes you forget yourself temporarily?
18 Have you ever been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, dyslexia, or similar problems that may affect your ability to look deeply into this? You do not have to answer this, but it would affect how long the guide’s posts to you would be.(You may PM me on this if you like.)
19 What is it you most deeply feel is holding you in your cage, as it were, or whatever it is you feel is constraining you?
20 What is your profession? Do you enjoy it?
21 Have you ever had any times in your life when you experienced irrational fear such as giving a speech, musical instrument recital, school play, starting new project, etc.?
22 Have you ever had a "peak" experience? If you don't know what it is, look it up on the internet, and think about it.
23 How you most relate to the world-visually, auditorily, the sense of feeling, etc.? Answer if you can. If not, it's not that important.
24 How did you find out about LU?
25 Have you ever experienced thoughts that you thought were untrue?\
26 Do you have a park or some other type of green area near you?
27 How badly do you want “enlightenment”?

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4connection
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:57 pm

Here are my answers...it is very long!
1 Do you currently have a religion? Is so, what is it, and are you active in it?
I have been interested in religion and the bottom line of all of them and what they do for humanity since I was a child. That exploration has brought me to a place of spirituality rather than adopting an organized "religion".
2 A first name if you're O.K. with posting it? Jane
3 How old you are? Ladies you don't have to be exact. :)
Exact is fine...67
4 How long you've been on the so-called spiritual journey?
I have been on an official spiritual journey since early the 90's but the movement started really with the birth of my children when I really started questioning and delving deeper so I could not make the same mistakes that were made with me. That did not work so well so I started meditating in the mid 80's I think.
5a What started you on it, feeling of separation, painful event, religious upbringing?
As time went on, as a teacher and working mom, the pain and difficulty of holding all these roles became very difficult. Meditation helped. I was requiring chiropractic for scoliosis and was looking at diet and natural methods also to support myself. So after my children were a little older, in the early to mid 90's, I really started asking for answers.
5b what have you done along the way in terms of reading or practices, etc.? Be descriptive so don't worry about it being too long.
In the mid 90's I discovered the Abraham/Hicks materials and began avidly devouring them. Also at that time I discovered Network Chiropractic which has been a cornerstone of my physical and spiritual development. In 2001 I decided to become a Lifecoach and took training for that which led to my retirement from the Education field and also eventually, in 2005, to separation/divorce from my husband. I worked with a spiritual coach throughout this time and gained immeasurably huge understanding of my life and journey. Much of my path in recent years consists of friendship with the Lifecoach who has supported my journey as well as reading, studying, workshops (Delores Cannon Technique, Laura Alden Kamm, Oneness/Deeksha, etc), intuitive readings, etc. etc.
6 If you meditate, what kind of meditation do you do, and for how long have you been doing it?
Since sometime in the 80's. Started with a mantra and moved to just dropping in. Have in recent years been a member of a meditation group. We have done channeling, Oneness Blessings, Patricia Cota-Robles intentioning.
7 What is the goal of this meditation?
Th goal has been to feel better in the moment and to receive answers to daily challenges and raise vibration to allow for flow in my life.
8 Has meditation achieved this goal?
It mostly has achieved that goal although I see myself in recent years having a harder time letting go of my mind's chatter.
9 What country are you from? What state if the U.S.?
I am in Colorado in the U.S. I came out here from Michigan for college and never left.
10 What are your goals in life
At this point my goals are mostly for rewarding relationships and close community. Being in my children's and grand children's lives as a trusted and loving elder is very important to me. I would also like to experience a deep loving relationship with a male. I would love to travel to sacred sites in the world with those close to me.
11 What are your expectations for liberation. What do you expect it to do for you. Write a LOT on this one.
Eg. A. Constant bliss
Actually, I'm not quite clear on this except I expect it to "get rid of" the discomfort, angst and stress of feeling separation that has seemed to get bigger lately. I expect liberation to allow for closer relationships in my life and in writing that I am seeing the fallacy of no self no other so...where does that leave it?? Maybe just an easier drive on the expressway rather than a feeling of everyone, including myself, being a little whacky.
B. Knowledge of all answers
Have always had "a knowing" but there is a sense it is all in my head.
C. Magical powers
A deepening of intuition. That is always nice!
D. etc., etc., etc.
12 What do you expect to be after liberation, if attained?
Operating from a different place...clarity, detachment, observing
13 How do you define your "self"?
In two ways...there is the little self...the ra, ra, ra, this is who I am listen to me self because I'm right self. Then there is the wise knowing that appears sometimes to often as a very different state of being.
14 Do you have any hobbies?
Reading, hiking, knitting, painting
15 Are you left handed or right.
Right, although I have been told I came as left but was changed.
16 What is the most beautiful nature scene you have ever seen?
Mountain top New Zealand
17 Is there any music you've listened to that makes you forget yourself temporarily?
Deva Premal and Tom Kenyon mantras and meditations
18 Have you ever been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, dyslexia, or similar problems that may affect your ability to look deeply into this? You do not have to answer this, but it would affect how long the guide’s posts to you would be.(You may PM me on this if you like.)
No official diagnosis but as a learning specialist in the field of Special Education for many years, I would say there has been some of this present which has inspired me to seek answers.
19 What is it you most deeply feel is holding you in your cage, as it were, or whatever it is you feel is constraining you?
The mind, the chatter, the need to be right and to avoid criticism.
20 What is your profession? Do you enjoy it?
Learning Specialist and Educator retired. Have loved it and learned more from the children than I have taught them!
21 Have you ever had any times in your life when you experienced irrational fear such as giving a speech, musical instrument recital, school play, starting new project, etc.?
Yes, there has always been a fear of what others think of me. I was very shy/ withdrawn as a child.
22 Have you ever had a "peak" experience? If you don't know what it is, look it up on the internet, and think about it.
Yes, I believe I have had several times of clear, lucid awareness. The ah-ha, integration when everything just slides into place. My biggest fear though is that it doesn't seem to last.
23 How you most relate to the world-visually, auditorily, the sense of feeling, etc.? Answer if you can. If not, it's not that important.
I tend to be hyper audient but also tend to filter auditorily for protection if that makes sense. I learn best kinesthetically and multisensorily.
24 How did you find out about LU?
A friend suggested it.
25 Have you ever experienced thoughts that you thought were untrue?\
Yes...lots.
26 Do you have a park or some other type of green area near you?
Yes
27 How badly do you want “enlightenment”?
I tend to move away from pain rather than innately moving toward something like enlightenment. I really want a state of freedom from this state I am in.

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Hopefulness
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:32 pm

O.K. Jane. Great answers. I'm required to put some other stuff up here so we'll go ahead and get that out of the way, and after you've been through it all we'll talk a little bit about expectations, and I'll give you an exercise to help you start looking in the right direction.

1. You agree to try post at least every day.

2. I will post questions. Set reasoning, computing and trying to understand, aside. Instead, communicate to me the response that you “directly experience” (by “direct experience” we refer to The moment to moment felt experience, or what’s happening right now, conscious knowing.) Here is an article by Neil Jalaldeen.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html

The questions are to position you to SEE, to DISCOVER, to RECOGNISE something for yourself, without mental stories.

3. When you answer, you answer with 110% honestly,.
Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

5. Do not expect a transfer of knowledge. We are not teachers.

Do you agree to the above?
6. Please learn to use the quote function. The “how to” is given at the top of the page under announcements.

7. Please learn to use the quote function

This guiding process can be much easier if you utilize the resources of this forum, such as in the Video, Audio, Books, and Articles section.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/index.html

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4connection
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:39 pm

Yes, Hopefulness, I do agree to this process. Let it begin!!

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:13 pm

O.K. I admire your enthusiasm. I assume you read Neil's brief article. We're going to focus a lot on the senses in this inquiry. What you see, hear, feel, smell, and taste is all you can actually "know" in this moment. Paris, France is only a belief. Now if you were standing on the Eiffel tower, then you would have direct experience, and "know" it. So when you are sitting, and see something on the wall, thought "labels" the experience, "picture." But if a thought arises about something in the next room which isn't directly experienced, that is a belief. It is a thought about another thought. There is a belief that there is a mirror in the bathroom if you are actually sitting in the living room. You may think that the freeway is noisy, but if you are not hearing it at the moment, then it is only a belief that it is noisy. You may think that the flowers outside smell wonderful, but if you are inside and not smelling them, then it is only a belief that they smell wonderful. O.K. Enough about direct experience for the moment. If you have further questions as we go along we can address them as they come up.

Let's talk about expectations. Yours seem pretty realistic compared to some of the stuff I've seen, but we'll look at a couple of things. I'm actually not going to use the quote function in here because the board times me out so I'll just cut and paste here.

You said. "Actually, I'm not quite clear on this except I expect it to "get rid of" the discomfort, angst and stress of feeling separation that has seemed to get bigger lately. I expect liberation to allow for closer relationships in my life and in writing that I am seeing the fallacy of no self no other so...where does that leave it?? Maybe just an easier drive on the expressway rather than a feeling of everyone, including myself, being a little whacky."

Yes. Once separation is seen through those feelings about it will pass. They may occasionally still surface from time to time, but they seem less sticky.Of course, discomfort, occasional stress, anger, and all those emotions will still arise occasionally in what you truly are, but they won't have the same "stickiness" as now, or to put it another way, the thought stories won't seem to dwell on any of them. You mentioned the whackiness of others and yourself on the freeway. The whackiness of other drivers probably won't change, but there may be the realization that "you" are not whacky. Thoughts of whackiness just arise in what you truly are. As an example, if someone cuts you off, and the thought "jerk" arises and a flash of anger comes, there won't be so much of the "piling" on of afterthoughts, like why people are always cutting you off, and how this same thing happened just last week, etc., etc., etc. and the endless thought loops that seem to get going sometime. So, maybe your drive on the freeway might get a little easier. Each person's experience is different.

12 What do you expect to be after liberation, if attained?
"Operating from a different place...clarity, detachment, observing."
I understand what you're getting at here. There is a certain clarity to this experience. I would say though that there is no detachment, because there is no one to detach from experience. Indeed, once "this" is seen there is full engagement in life, as life. But "operating from a different place," as perhaps a change in perspective, is O.K. It does seem like that here. And sometimes it does seem that what shows up is more intuitive.
But for the moment, we'll just put all those expectations aside, as they tend to block the seeing in the moment.


Alright. Let's get you started on looking closely at experience. . Go to your green area, sit or walk, whichever you prefer, relax, bathe in the senses, the seeing of trees, the hearing and feeling the wind, the smells of outside, etc. Once relaxed, ask yourself the question, “How would this experience be different if I were "enlightened"? Notice, I am not asking how YOU would be different sitting or walking if you were enlightened. Your focus should be on the experience, not yourself. Keep focused on the target question, not the distraction question.
As your pondering the question ask also, "what could be added to this experience to make it better, and then, is anything missing from this experience?
Take your time with this. We're not in a hurry here. Put aside the thoughts of "getting this" or "figuring this out" for now, and just try to imagine that what you truly are IS the experience.

Again. Take your time on this and then write the things that came up for you. Enjoy.

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:02 pm

As I walked, I had the thought that, if I were enlightened, I would feel more connected with more life force flowing than I did. I also think that I would feel nature more deeply, see and hear more deeply. My senses would be heightened. It was a gorgeous day and I stopped to take a picture of a beautiful fall bush full of color. I usually feel a flow from being out in nature, from the trees, birds and squirrels. As I walked I thought that the feelings would be stronger than they were if I were enlightened. It would come more from a feeling of the energy flow of the things around me. I would not be looking from the "me", there would be more of a feeling of connection to all.

As the evening wore on, I continued to ask the question about various activities, television, reading, meditating. As often happens, when I pose a question and sleep on it, the answers start dropping in when I wake up. What dropped in was, "If there is no me/I/self, there would be no experiencer of nature there would only be nature, there would only be the walking. There would be no "I" feeling more of nature. What if the experience is already there to experience without the "I"??? Without the "I" the experience in its fullness already is. This seems like a new awareness!

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:37 pm

Good. Good, good, good, good, good, good, good. That's a lot for the first exercise. I like the way you look, and sleeping on things does help. This stuff takes time to sink in. Re-read your post and compare the before sleep to after sleep. Notice how the first part is still about Jane and the latter part is about experience. I want you to stay in the latter part throughout your day. Just BE experience. Or more simply, just be "what is" in all its different perfections. Don't worry about Jane. Jane will be taken care of.

When you do the exercise again today, I want you to add something to it. As you exist as experience, as life, think about what Jane actually is. Is there an actual Jane IN EXPERIENCE? Or is Jane just an ongoing dialogue, a series of thoughts coming up in a language learned long ago? Where was Jane before language was learned? What was Jane before that time? You might think about that today and write about it when you've sat with it a while. Focus on the feelings that come up, and let them be. Try to get outside as much as possible again today, especially when you're actually focusing on the exercise. It can be difficult to see the beauty of what you are simply sitting in front of a computer screen.

"Without the "I" the experience in its fullness already is." Beautiful.

And again. Take your "time" with this in the ever-present now. Enlightenment doesn't come in some imaginary future. Is there a future in direct experience? No. The future never comes. There is only the eternal now, and now is what you are. Enjoy your day.

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:07 pm

Hi Hopefulness,
Is there Jane in this experience?
As I looked for Jane in the experiences of my day, I couldn't actually ever find her. However I did notice the attachment of her identity to particular experiences. I noticed the emotion of "that is my experience" getting stronger in some instances. Particularly, my foot was hurting while walking some and I asked the question of whose foot it was that was hurting which refocused attention on the question, "if there is no self then how would this experience change?" At that point the mind got stronger with it being MY foot.

This morning I, again, was asking the question and another came..."is what I feel when meditating Jane? Is the Soul Jane? What came was the Soul is a being or beingness. There is a part of me that is wanting to get farther with this than I feel I am getting. I'm pretty sure that is also the self doing its thing. What to trust? Where is the truth? I'm experiencing confusion.
Jane

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:08 pm

Ok...just realized I missed the part of where/what was Jane before language was learned...am focusing with that now...

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby 4connection » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:26 pm

When I sit with the question where/what was Jane before language, what comes is a clear sense of "isness" or "beingness". There are memories of being very little and feeling very confused and shocked with my surroundings like "where am I?"

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Hopefulness
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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:54 pm

Let's look at thoughts today. "A belief is a thought about another thought."

You said."Is there Jane in this experience? As I looked for Jane in the experiences of my day, I couldn't actually ever find her. However I did notice the attachment of her identity to particular experiences."

Good. Notice the distance between what you truly are and the fictional belief, "Jane."



You said, "I noticed the emotion of 'that is my experience' getting stronger in some instances."

Is that an emotion, or just another thought? Can a thought "get stronger" or is that just another thought saying " 'that is my experience' that is getting stronger ..."?



You said, "Is the Soul Jane? What came was the Soul is a being or beingness."

Can you find a soul in experience? Can you see it, hear it, feel it, etc.? However, if it comforts you to think of the "beingness" of what you truly are, as a soul, then that's fine.You can put any label on experience that you like.



You said, "What to trust?"

Who needs to trust? Is there really a who? Isn't that just another thought arising in what you are? There is only experience, and it has no need or desire for trust. Yet "trusting" or "not trusting" will still seem to arise in experience from time to time, as thoughts.


You said, "Where is the truth ?"

Look in experience. Do you find truth? What is it that says there is a need for "truth" ? Another thought, perhaps?



You said. "I'm experiencing confusion."

Are you? Is there a who "experiencing confusion," or is that just another thought arising in what you are? Experience is ALWAYS complete clarity. Can the beauty of the sun, the wind, and the singing birds, ever be "confused"? Only thoughts say there is confusion. You said in your answers to my questions that some thoughts are "untrue." Why can't "I am confused" be an "untrue" thought?



You said."There is a part of me that is wanting to get farther with this than I feel I am getting."

So be it. I'll push you harder. Let's add another exercise to the one you are currently doing, and should continue doing. This one is about the nature of thought.

((((((((((((((((((((((( "Jane is a thought, and a thought can't think." ))))))))))))))))))))))))

I want you to focus on that, and ask if there is any authority "IN EXPERIENCE" that says that one thought is "true," and another thought is "false." Look at every thought that claims it has that authority to "judge" other thoughts or experience, and ask what is it that gives that thought "authority." Why is that "authority thought" more "important" than the thought, "There is a tree"?

Are you the "thinker" of thoughts, or do thoughts just arise out of nowhere? Can you control thoughts?

Enjoy your day as the day.

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Re: Requesting a Guide

Postby Hopefulness » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:07 pm

Hi again,
I forgot to put something in my original post today because the editing got fouled up and it got taken out. What I wanted to say was that your statement that you wanted to be a little farther along prompted me to kind of load you up in my last post. There is a LOT to look at in there, so I won't be giving you any additional exercises to do for at least a few days. It might also be helpful at this time to start re-reading the thread for the sake of cohesiveness.

I now see that I did not see your two follow-up posts. I logged in this morning, cut and pasted my response a little while later, then logged out without refreshing the thread. You're very close to seeing something here. Notice the "beingness" in your first Oct. 28 post, and the "beingness" in your "before language" post. Does that tell you something? Look closely. :)


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