Companion wanted

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

I can sense that my thoughts are constructing a new image of me at every moment.

Clear seeing in this Hannes

Why do you say „appeared in the dream“?

Ah yes. The meaning can be obscured in translation here. The "dream" here refers to the illusion of thought.

Okay, let's take stock as to where we are.

The reason for working together on LU is for one purpose. And that is to see that there is no such thing as a separate entity as "I / me."

As I've felt into your last few posts Hannes I get the sense that something has shifted for you since we started out in this investigation and that you see the truth that there is no "me." . However you are the only one who really knows if that is so. That being the case I'd like to check in with you by asking a few questions. This will help you and I find anything that we might need to explore further.


Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?



Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?



Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?



Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?



Is there a thinker of thought?



Is there ever a separate self doing anything?



Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?



Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?



Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration in how you relate to thoughts, to emotion?



Do you notice any other differences now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?



Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?



With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

No. I once told you about my separation from my lady after 16 years. I see my son regularly, but still feel bad because I can no longer be there for him every day and have thoughts that I will regret it for the rest of my life because I can't experience parts of his teenage years. Here I feel attacked and hurt as a self.

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?

When there is no chooser, there is noch possibility to control. It is not clearly seen in a natural and automatic way.

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

No. Because at least two choices seem to exist and I "choose" one, my thoughts say that there must be a decider. Since I base my decision on preferences that I can neither choose nor change, I am not making a free choice. It was chosen for me and I get to look at it.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

With regard to the separation from my lady and partial separation from my son, I do feel responsible for the suffering that has occurred. However, I also see in a few moments that things simply happen and had to happen that way, otherwise they would have happened differently.

Is there a thinker of thought?

No. Thoughts appear and disappear again. When they will appear and what content they will have cannot be influenced. I can only look at it.

Is there ever a separate self doing anything?

Yes, I am just sitting and answering your questions that I have been practicing in DE for the last few days.

Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?

I don't find a self in any form in the body. Because this self has been given preferences to act lovingly, it also assigns itself the character trait loving in thought. Character trait loving to.

Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?

No. I see colours and shapes with open and closed eyes. In both ways is there Interpretation by through. It is not clearly seen in a natural and automatic way.

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration in how you relate to thoughts, to emotion?

To summarize, I would say that thoughts hardly have the power to assault me anymore. They stick to me less and less and often seem like the sun: they come and go.


Much love,

Hannes

[Alless]

Hello Hannes,

To summarize, I would say that thoughts hardly have the power to assault me anymore. They stick to me less and less and often seem like the sun: they come and go.

It’s great to see this Hannes. And we also find that some thoughts to be stickier than others. The sticky ones seem to be associated with “deeper“ beliefs.

With regard to the separation from my lady and partial separation from my son, I do feel responsible for the suffering that has occurred. However, I also see in a few moments that things simply happen and had to happen that way, otherwise they would have happened differently

.
When you say “I do feel responsibility for the suffering that has occurred“
Is not the suffering that has occurred just a thought about the past?


Tell me about this responsibility.
What is this “I” that feels responsible?



Is there an ACTUAL “I” or AN ENTITY that is part of or embedded in this feeling of responsibility?



Or is this feeling that we label responsibility in reality a feeling that is felt?



Really sit with this and tell me about what comes. This is not about questioning responsibility as such, rather it is questioning the existence of the “I“ that claims it.


With love


Alan.

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

Is not the suffering that has occurred just a thought about the past?

You are right. It is an incredibly persistent and emotionally charged thought about the past.

Tell me about this responsibility.
What is this “I” that feels responsible?

This "I" is a self-constructing thought based on sensations, form and colors.

Is there an ACTUAL “I” or AN ENTITY that is part of or embedded in this feeling of responsibility?

No, I can't recognize that. Interestingly, I recognize the story behind the seemingly unperceived responsibility and also a strategy that says I can see my innocence when I place blame. Again, these are all just thoughts to get the „I“ into peace.

Or is this feeling that we label responsibility in reality a feeling that is felt?

Responsibility seems to be more of an idea in the sense of a mission statement and a guideline for action, from which various feelings arise according to the result of a target/actual comparison.


Much love

Hannes

[Hannes]

I would like to add something else:
I have always imagined the dissolution of the separate self as something mystical, where perception and the world somehow change completely and I immerse myself in a kind of super high consciousness.

In the brief moments when the idea of a separate self dissolves for me, my perception is still the same however the interpreting, meaning making and story telling ends. I then feel myself embedded in a deep peace for the moment.

[Alless]

Hannes,

I have always imagined the dissolution of the separate self as something mystical, where perception and the world somehow change completely and I immerse myself in a kind of super high consciousness

.
This is a common misunderstanding. States like mystical experiences or "super high consciousness" are such attraction for the deluded separate self. They can occur and they can come and go however they only ever an aspect of experience. They actually induce a covering up of what never changes

In the brief moments when the idea of a separate self dissolves for me, my perception is still the same however the interpreting, meaning making and story telling ends. I then feel myself embedded in a deep peace for the moment.

Oh Hannes my heart sings when I read what you have written. Peace is the signature of truth. Calm equanimity, rest, settledness, many words that can't quite describe what they are pointing to but all pointing to the same noTHING. Simply CLEARLY SEEING that "interpreting, meaning making and story telling" - as you point to here - are just thoughts and concepts in IMAGINATION is the key to bringing turmoil and suffering to an end.
Does that ring true for you Hannes?




Another trap is that once we have seen this there can be an expectation that we will never get triggered again,that we will never lose it. That expectation is just another thought. If calm seems to be absent it is only because we have got caught up in "interpreting, meaning making and story telling" again. Everyone experiences this phase in their own unique way.

Occasionally for a few they experience unbroken peace that is always apparent in stark contrast to what they experienced before this peace was uncovered. It's not that they don't have suffering "pass thorough" but that they no longer identify with it (Believe they are the suffering or that the suffering is theirs)

For some it seems to come and go, for others there is what is often refereed to as the honeymoon period. A significant period of peace and calm, And then an avalanche of thoughts can be experienced.

You mention ...

incredibly persistent and emotionally charged thought about the past

We need to come back to this but will do so in the next couple of posts

First of all please FEEL into this peace that is experienced. Let this peace show itself as it truly is

While it may seem that this peace comes and goes is that the truth or rather is the truth that this peace is ALWAYS there and gets covered up by thoughts and emotions?




If you allow that peace just to be can you see how persistent emotionally charged thought obscure it?




Is there a start or finish of this peace? Does it in and of itself have any limitations?




When you are totally open to this peace does it lessen in any way?




Is there are dividing line between this peace and the experiencing that you truly are?




What is it that disturbs this peace?




With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

Oh Hannes my heart sings when I read what you have written.

😊

Peace is the signature of truth.

I can sense that.

Simply CLEARLY SEEING that "interpreting, meaning making and story telling" - as you point to here - are just thoughts and concepts in IMAGINATION is the key to bringing turmoil and suffering to an end. Does that ring true for you Hannes?

I see the truth of it.

While it may seem that this peace comes and goes is that the truth or rather is the truth that this peace is ALWAYS there and gets covered up by thoughts and emotions?

The peace is always there and covered up by thoughts and emotions like the shining sun is covered up by clouds.

If you allow that peace just to be can you see how persistent emotionally charged thought obscure it?

Yes. What a crazy mechanism.

Is there a start or finish of this peace? Does it in and of itself have any limitations?

Peace is like a veil that covers the world and seems to be everything that is without beginning or end.

When you are totally open to this peace does it lessen in any way?

This peace can not be compromised in any way.

Is there are dividing line between this peace and the experiencing that you truly are?

No. Once the peace was so deep, there were no needs and nothing that could ever feel threatened or attacked.

What is it that disturbs this peace?

The identification with thoughts.



With love

Hannes

[Alless]

This is such beautiful clear seeing Hannes.

There can be such relief and joy in recognizing and seeing the truth of these mechanisms of thought that draw us into the illusion. The belief that there is a "me" is like a lens that we look through and colors everything we experience. Once seen that this "me" is a figment of the imagination then everything changes yet remains the same.

Oh yes we will find ourselves from time to time looking through the lens of me. However now we have a capacity to be able to spot it when it's happening. Simply recognizing what is happening breaks the spell that has unconsciously been hypnotizing us for so long. This opens the door to deeper and deeper discovery of mind mechanisms. And they are subtler and subtler the deeper we go.

And you have given us an opportunity to explore one such situation when you reported a couple of days ago when you responded to a question about suffering and you said...

Is not the suffering that has occurred just a thought about the past?

You are right. It is an incredibly persistent and emotionally charged thought about the past

.

So let's take a look at emotions as they are a very potent aspect of the illusion


Dealing with Emotion

When you said "“I do feel responsibility for the suffering that has occurred" - this is a very visceral example of the "binding" that is experienced through the interweaving of what can be considered two "elements" of an emotion, One element is the sensation that we feel and the other is the thinking / the story we build around it

While emotions can be very complex it can be very helpful to consider emotions this way.

When an emotion is triggered we are typically experiencing a past event in the current moment. The sensation in the present moment is real. The thoughts about the past event are not real, they are in imagination. These thoughts about the past event present themselves in a myriad of ways. The key here is to recognize the thoughts that are swirling around the event - both thoughts about the past, thoughts about what's happening now and thoughts about the future relating to this event. When we can see that the THOUGHTS have little or no direct relationship to the sensation we are feeling we are on the way . It is the thoughts ABOUT the event that hold the emotion in place. When we see the associated thoughts for what they are "unbinding" and resolving of the emotion is invoked

ANY THOUGHT that arises with a sensation is part of the story - or a trigger for the story. The key to unbinding emotion is to separate the story and the sensation. AND JUST STAY WITH THE SENSATION. Treat it as a visitor who you are very curious about and want to get to know. This can feel somewhat counter intuitive especially if the sensation is not one that we want to have around.

However if the sensation has a threatening quality - such as a feeling of red hot steel or deep sorrow - simply drop the thought as best you can and gently be with whatever the raw sensation is. Just let it unfurl itself as best you can. It will change. How it changes is usually a bit of a surprise. It certainly is not likely to change as the "me" WANTS it to. And the changing reveals that there is a resolving of some nature happening. And here is another aspect which can feel counter intuitive - if our attitude is one of wanting to get rid of the feeling then that in fact tends to act like a tackiness that keeps it hanging around, Gentle, genuine curiosity is the key.

So f you can, please just sit with this emotion you describe "“I do feel responsibility for the suffering that has occurred" or any other emotion that takes your attention. Let compassion for it in the moment be fully felt.

When thoughts are noticed just let them know you are otherwise occupied. Do your best to not be distracted by any thought, concept or stories about what is happening. Thoughts about what is happening will pop up. Just notice them. Just noticing is the key here. Any inclination to entertain thoughts about what is happening or anticipating any changing can pull you away from the critical attitude here which is - simply sit with the sensation as if you were watching a very timid little bird and notice every detail as best you can. If it starts to feel too challenging or overwhelming, don't push it - take a break and come back gently to it when you can. Let me know what happens




Now this emotional work - sometimes referred to as shadow work - will continue after seeing that there is no self. There can sometimes be a misconception that seeing through the illusion of no self takes us straight to a life of bliss!! While the rising of emotions doesn't prevent the realizing of no self in some situations it can act as a distraction. And there is a paradox here. Sometimes it seems to provide a key to seeing there is no self. What a mystery.

So whilst this shadow work extends well beyond the seeing of no self, getting a real feel on how to "navigate" it is more than useful.

So as all this is happening please keep LOOKING with this intent. Is there any entity called a "me" which can be found in any aspect of this exploration?




While I know there are a lot of explanation in this post. It is an attempt make things as clear as possible using the written medium. Please come back with anything you need to have clarified.

Some find doing this work alone is very rewarding. However some find that having someone professional to work with in a range of modalities can be very helpful. Also if the emotion is very intense and trauma is showing itself it is strongly suggested that help be sought to do this work


With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello dear Alan,

if our attitude is one of wanting to get rid of the feeling then that in fact tends to act like a tackiness that keeps it hanging around

We say in Germany: If you have a problem and don’t want it, than you have two problems.

When we can see that the THOUGHTS have little or no direct relationship to the sensation we are feeling we are on the way

It feels like I'm using my thoughts and stories to justify my feelings, building up my self-image and attacking it.

So f you can, please just sit with this emotion you describe "“I do feel responsibility for the suffering that has occurred" or any other emotion that takes your attention. Let compassion for it in the moment be fully felt. […] Let me know what happens

If I look at the emotion without feeding it with new thoughts, it does not intensify and even loses its intensity.

So as all this is happening please keep LOOKING with this intent. Is there any entity called a "me" which can be found in any aspect of this exploration?

No, I feel only the sensations.

Some find doing this work alone is very rewarding. However some find that having someone professional to work with in a range of modalities can be very helpful.

It took some time to face the process. I noticed that I had tended to suppress and repress negative emotions in the past. Going through the process alone worked well for me. Then I can work with the feelings whenever they arise and don't have to wait for another person.


Much love,

Hannes

[Alless]

Such a lovely report Hannes. Great work you have done here

We say in Germany: If you have a problem and don’t want it, than you have two problems.

Love it !

If I look at the emotion without feeding it with new thoughts, it does not intensify and even loses its intensity.

Yes ! Herein is the key. Uncoupling the thoughts from the sensation and then being with the sensation gives the sensation the freedom to unbind itself

No, I feel only the sensations.

Great !

It took some time to face the process. I noticed that I had tended to suppress and repress negative emotions in the past. Going through the process alone worked well for me. Then I can work with the feelings whenever they arise and don't have to wait for another person.

Wonderful ! This will serve you so well Hannes. As life unfolds and we are able to really FEEL into sensations, feel into their "core" so to speak marvelous transformations can happen.


I do sense we are at the point where I'd like to invite some other guides here at LU to have a look at the work we've done to make sure there is no stone left upturned in what you and I have covered. There will be some questions as part of this.
Are you happy for me to do that Hannes?


With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

I'd like to invite some other guides here at LU to have a look at the work we've done to make sure there is no stone left upturned in what you and I have covered. […] Are you happy for me to do that Hannes?

Everything that supports our journey is fine. 😊


With love

Hannes

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

That was a quick reply!😊

Here are the questions I referred to that are very useful as we start to wrap up our investigation. I'll share your responses with other guides and give them the opportunity to give us any suggestions or questions that they feel may help take the discovery deeper.

As you go through the questions make sure you are not tempted to go to thought for an answer but ONLY Report from your Actual Experience in this very moment when you reply to each question. Do not reply from memory or a previous experience.

No need to rush, come from the heart and not your head, take your time and have some fun !!

Here are the questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?




2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.




3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.




4) Can you remember any specific moment where there was an epiphany? ....a before and after seeing the actuality of no self? Was there a point when you ‘got it’ or was if more of a subtle unfolding of the truth which culminated in this realization?




5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

decision, & give examples from experience.




intention, & give examples from experience.




free will, & give examples from experience.




choice and control? & give examples from experience.




What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.




6) Anything to add?





With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

Please excuse the late reply. I have taken the time to go back through our chat and look at topics again.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

I see the idea of a self that is being built up in every moment. However, this "I" is nowhere to be found. It has no form.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

The illusion of the separate self:
In each moment I give meaning to shapes, colors, sounds and sensations by creating stories about the idea of self and of course others to make sure that I have a reference to separateness at all times.


Experiential examples:

1. Thoughts are less to hardly scary because I am not the thinker and originator.

2. There is no one making decisions and therefore no wrong decisions. Things happen and have less to no meaning.

3. I am more and more in peace with what is.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

A peaceful and calm veil has settled over the world and while I don't have permanent access to it yet, I can open up to it much faster and sink into it.

4) Can you remember any specific moment where there was an epiphany? ....a before and after seeing the actuality of no self? Was there a point when you ‘got it’ or was if more of a subtle unfolding of the truth which culminated in this realization?

An enlightening moment was the realization that I don't make decisions and never have. Awesome!

Otherwise, it is more of a subtle unfolding of truth that requires a lot of attention, stillness and awareness to access.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

decision, & give examples from experience.

Decision is the idea of being able to choose between 2 different options. The underlying decision criteria are based on preferences. These preferences are given. For example, I will always choose water over cola because I simply don't like cola and I can't decide that I might like it. So I am not making decisions, they have already been made for me. I use the idea of being able to make a decision because there seem to be options available to me and think to myself: "If there are 2 options and the decision is made in favor of one option, there must also be a decision-maker." But this does not exist.
I've just been out for a meal with my son and I've clearly overeaten. I have already decided whether I will eat too much at the next restaurant or whether I will only eat as much as I am hungry for. I can observe the flow of life in peace instead of building up resistance.

intention, & give examples from experience.

Intention is the idea of being able to change something in the future. They are thoughts that pull me out of the now. The only moment that really exists. I can't always experience it, for example, when I think about my work tomorrow and the tasks / intentions associated with it.

free will, & give examples from experience.

If there is no decision-maker, there can be no free will. Everything happens. It's as if life follows a script. I can only observe it. I can't think of any examples at the moment.

choice and control? & give examples from experience.

We also use the appearance of being able to control things to invent the self of a controller. This, too, is just as non-existent as control. Either the flow of life runs according to my expectations and I imagine that I have controlled it or it runs differently and I deal with my inner resistance.

In addition, control is the idea of being able to change the future. I can only surrender to the present moment, because the future is unpredictable.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Intellectually, I know that having responsibility is an idea. However, I will be at work very early tomorrow to complete tasks that fall within "my area of responsibility" by 0900. I have to do it, otherwise there could be trouble. Here I find it difficult to see beyond that.

6) Anything to add?

I would like to look with you at the fact that I am here in Germany and you are over there in Australia. The idea of different people is used by me to build the separate self and at the same time I find it hard to look beyond that.



With love.

Hannes

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

No problem with the late reply

Thank you for your clear responses. I just have one question before I invite other guides to look at our investigation.

You point out in "choice and control? & give examples from experience" .....

I can only surrender to the present moment

As you LOOK DIRECTLY at your moment to moment experience that you point to here, tell me a little more about this I and how surrender is experienced.



With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

I can only surrender to the present moment

As you look DIRECTLY at your moment-to-moment experience you reference here, tell me a little more about this I and how surrender is experienced.

Arriving consciously in the present moment, neither past nor future exist and I have no real connection to the body. Either it has actually disappeared or I am completely unconscious after all. The 'I' is perceived as a formless presence.

In this moment, the experience is no longer perceived as a “dual battle of resistance” but as a flow of life in which everything happens exactly as it should. In addition, there is a deep peace in the moment that extends across everything in perception.


Much love,

Hannes