I am here because I couldn't not have been

[warissem]

Good morning Kalyani

I took a week to see if there was seeking. Can’t say there is seeking.

Great.

But also things are kind of the same as before we started the conversation.

Are you expecting that things will change?

There were moments of seeing no me various times but then everything continues to function as always most of the time. Like as if there is a me.

Yes, there was no you, no separate self before this conversation started.
Behaving as if there is a me, is due to conditioning, old habits, tendencies :it is a program running.

The other day I noticed something, I went to put on my sweater in the morning and a thought appeared that there isn’t a me putting on a sweater. And then a great fear came over me. Maybe there is a fear in the way of seeing.

"There is no me to put on the sweater" is a thought : do you see that?
Seeing through the illusion of a separate self is not constructing a "no me belief", it is SEEING that there is no you, no separate self reading these words. The fear means that there is a great attachment to you, to this me. A fear of loosing something of great value. LOOK AT this attachment, what is this ME? Look at what is arising as thoughts, as mental images when you say I, ME and let me know about.

I felt great fear of the thought there is not a me at the controls and not anyone at the controls of other bodies. It felt like falling into an abyss. Even as I write this I can recall this fear and feel it again, it’s a none-chilling feeling.

Is there someone in control of babies, animals, ... Just know that there never was a me, a separate self controlling any human being. Have you ever seen a separate self?
There is no you to disappear, all continues to happen as it was.
Anyway, when there is fear, welcome it, take over the concept “fear” and look at the raw sensations (called fear) in the body. Give light to this sensation, let it be in this open space then look behind this sensation and see what is there?
Here is something about dealing with fear.
http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/search?q=fear
Let me know how it goes on. You are on the right track.

Best for you

[Kalyani]

Hi Warissem,

Are you expecting that things will change?

Yes :) if absolutely nothing changes how will I know that I’ve seen the “no me”. In reading people’s accounts everyone describes that things become different.

Behaving as if there is a me, is due to conditioning, old habits, tendencies :it is a program running.

This makes sense.

The fear means that there is a great attachment to you, to this me. A fear of loosing something of great value. LOOK AT this attachment, what is this ME? Look at what is arising as thoughts, as mental images when you say I, ME and let me know about.

Some things that arise and I can catch: if there is no me, I will go insane. I’ll be one of those people talking nonsense on the street, I will lose my family, my work, my home. There is a fear of going insane. So it follows that I must see ME as the sanity, reason and, ultimately, the one who “runs” my life.

I think after moments of seeing “no me”, there is then going “back to normal”. Like ok, I saw it, now back to the normal existence with ME running things. It’s like one foot in/one foot out kind of thing, a holding on.

Is there someone in control of babies, animals, ... Just know that there never was a me, a separate self controlling any human being.

Logically, if there was never any self controlling anyone, then there is no reason to think I’ll go insane without a ME, yet this fear appears.

Anyway, when there is fear, welcome it, take over the concept “fear” and look at the raw sensations (called fear) in the body. Give light to this sensation, let it be in this open space then look behind this sensation and see what is there?

I did this, and the fear melted away very quickly, there was nothing behind it, just nothing. This was a wonderful exercise :)

I haven’t had the chance to watch the video yet.

Thank you for your help!

[Kalyani]

Just realized it isn’t a video about fear, but a blog. I’ll give it a read.

[warissem]

Hi Kalyani

Yes :) if absolutely nothing changes how will I know that I’ve seen the “no me”

How do you that there is no unicorn in the room right now?
How many times do you have to look that there is no tiger under your bed TO SEE that there is not?
How many times do you have to look that there is no you, no separate self in any shape or form?

In reading people’s accounts everyone describes that things become different.

Things are still the same here, nothing is different. There are trees, mountains, animals, people, sensations, pleasure, pain, sounds, going to the market, speaking with others about stupid stuff, paying the bills, ... memories about the past are happening, thinking about the future is happening, ... The sole difference is that there is no belief in a separate self, a me, doing things. What happens happens. There is no more to it than BEING AWARE.

Some things that arise and I can catch: if there is no me, I will go insane. I’ll be one of those people talking nonsense on the street, I will lose my family, my work, my home. There is a fear of going insane. So it follows that I must see ME as the sanity, reason and, ultimately, the one who “runs” my life.

All what you said above is far away from direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching or sensations. You have done the exercise about thoughts and you have seen that thoughts are coming and going by themselves. There is no authority behind the thoughts saying what you wrote above : do you see that?
Have you seen that "I", "me" are concepts and there is no entity standing behind them?
Can a concept be in control of anything?
Have faith in life, it knows how it protects itself. All the train of thoughts you have written is a kind of resistance.

I think after moments of seeing “no me”,

Is there a thought or a seeing?

there is then going “back to normal”. Like ok, I saw it, now back to the normal existence with ME running things. It’s like one foot in/one foot out kind of thing, a holding on.

No, you are not looking, you are just trying to figure out how it would be without a me. I invite you to LOOK AT this me definitively, open your eyes and LOOK : is there you, a separate self in any shape or form? LOOK if there is you speaking, if there is you thinking? Look if there is Kalyani, a separate self intervening during all the activities : seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, feeling sensations, thinking, walking, doing things, ... LOOK with scrutiny.

Logically, if there was never any self controlling anyone, then there is no reason to think I’ll go insane without a ME, yet this fear appears.

Logics is good but it does not help here. There is a need to LOOK and LOOK and LOOK. AND SEE the answer with 100% certainty to the question : is there you, a separate self in any shape or form?

I did this, and the fear melted away very quickly, there was nothing behind it, just nothing. This was a wonderful exercise :)

Is this nothing aware? Continue to meet the fear like you did.

I haven’t had the chance to watch the video yet.

Yes, it is a post.

Thank you for your help!

You are much welcome.

[Kalyani]

How do you that there is no unicorn in the room right now?
How many times do you have to look that there is no tiger under your bed TO SEE that there is not?

It should be once indeed! So probably I haven’t seen yet

. The sole difference is that there is no belief in a separate self, a me, doing things. What happens happens. There is no more to it than BEING AWARE.

Can you explain this a bit more? The part where you say “there is no more to it than being aware”? what difference is there, what is the before and after so to speak?

There is no authority behind the thoughts saying what you wrote above : do you see that?
Have you seen that "I", "me" are concepts and there is no entity standing behind them?
Can a concept be in control of anything?
Have faith in life, it knows how it protects itself. All the train of thoughts you have written is a kind of resistance.

I truly do see there is no authority behind thoughts. I and ME concepts are still hanging on I think. I feel a bit defeated by this resistance. I would like there to be no resistance to what I am trying to do here.

Is there a thought or a seeing?

I think you are right. Maybe what I thought was seeing was still actually just thinking about seeing.

No, you are not looking, you are just trying to figure out how it would be without a me. I invite you to LOOK AT this me definitively, open your eyes and LOOK : is there you, a separate self in any shape or form? LOOK if there is you speaking, if there is you thinking? Look if there is Kalyani, a separate self intervening during all the activities : seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, feeling sensations, thinking, walking, doing things, ... LOOK with scrutiny.

I want to look and see. Why don’t I see? I will keep trying to see. How do I look? Looking is done via vision, when I look I just see the world around me, I don’t see a ME. I see other people - aren’t they “selves”, how can I know that they are not?

For me to “understand” that there isn’t a me I need to recall all the different things like: thoughts come on their own, body isn’t separate from the environment, bodily functions and sensations happen on their own. But that is just a bunch of thinking again. How to see?

[warissem]

Good morning

Can you explain this a bit more? The part where you say “there is no more to it than being aware”? what difference is there, what is the before and after so to speak?

What is the difference between believing in Santa Klaus and not believing in it?

You have answered to questions as a batch. Next post, please give answers separately to each question. We are not in a hurry, we don't have to jump the steps, the road is safe.

There is no authority behind the thoughts saying what you wrote above : do you see that?

I truly do see there is no authority behind thoughts.

Fine. It means that there is no thinker, no I, no Kalyani producing thoughts and mental images. Ponder on this.

Have you seen that "I", "me" are concepts and there is no entity standing behind them?

I and ME concepts are still hanging on I think.

Do you SEE clearly that your answer is a train of thoughts ?
That there is no you thinking.
Are you expecting "I" and "me" thoughts to disappear for ever?
Are you expecting the disappearance of all the memories about Kalyani?
Are the memories about Santa disappeared?

Can a concept be in control of anything?

I feel a bit defeated by this resistance. I would like there to be no resistance to what I am trying to do here.

A lot of questions here :
Who or what is defeated by the resistance?
Who or what does not like it?
Who is trying to do it?
Is there a doer in any shape or form? If the answer is yes, describe this doer as a five senses appearance.
What is this resistance in the field of the five senses : a sight, a sound, a smell, a taste or a sensation?
How is this resistance expressing itself?

Is there a thought or a seeing?

I think you are right. Maybe what I thought was seeing was still actually just thinking about seeing.

Please, when you give answers to my questions be 100% certain that you have SEEN the answer in direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations). Don't use "I think" or "it seems". Be sure of the answer, don't think it, SEE it.

I want to look and see. Why don’t I see? I will keep trying to see. How do I look? Looking is done via vision, when I look I just see the world around me, I don’t see a ME.

Is the world around YOU? Is it true or is it just a thought?
When a "me" is not seen, how can a world be around it?

I see other people - aren’t they “selves”, how can I know that they are not?

Do you see "selves" ? Would you describe a self in others?

For me to “understand” that there isn’t a me I need to recall all the different things like: thoughts come on their own, body isn’t separate from the environment, bodily functions and sensations happen on their own. But that is just a bunch of thinking again. How to see?

Are you confusing THINKING and SEEING?
Check all what you said above for your self :
- about thoughts : go back to the exercise about thoughts and do it till you see for sure what is going on
- about the body : is the air inside the body different from the air outside? is the body nourishing itself through the environment? is not the body part of the environment?
- about bodily functions : look at breathing, heart beating, digesting, walking, speaking, hands moving, ... is there a you, Kalyani intervening?
- about sensations : are you choosing which sensation will arise? can you choose only pleasurable sensations?
- about seeing : seeing happens by itself. Is there you seeing? Is there an on/off switch : see/not see?

Take your time to look at the questions and give a separate answer to each question. You can answer to one part of this post the first day then continue to answer another day. Take a deep breath, LOOK at what is going on, SEE the answer. Seeing the answer is like seeing the color of the sky right now with eyes open.

Best for you

[Kalyani]

Hi Warissem,

I will answer some questions today and leave some for later as you suggested.

What is the difference between believing in Santa Klaus and not believing in it?

There is the difference that thoughts and feelings about Santa Clause would change if one stopped believing in it. For example, the warm feelings and the excitement about Santa would go away. Thoughts about having to be good to receive presents from him would go away, stuff like that.

I truly do see there is no authority behind thoughts.
Fine. It means that there is no thinker, no I, no Kalyani producing thoughts and mental images. Ponder on this.

Yes, I see this if I focus and make an effort to observe thoughts. I can really see and have no doubt that even if there is a Kalyani, she certainly isn’t capable of controlling thoughts. So Kalyani isn’t the thinker of thoughts.

I and ME concepts are still hanging on I think.
Do you SEE clearly that your answer is a train of thoughts ?

I do, but wouldn’t any answer be a train of thoughts? Anything I write down is a train of thoughts.

That there is no you thinking.

There is a habit to see thoughts as “mine”. When I focus I can see that there isn’t a me thinking. But when I don’t focus just through the day there is habitual perception that the thoughts are mine and a habit to perceive as though I am thinking them.

Are you expecting "I" and "me" thoughts to disappear for ever?

No I don’t have this expectation. I have an expectation that my relationship with the i and me thoughts will change. Like I won’t need to believe them or follow them blindly if that makes sense.

Are you expecting the disappearance of all the memories about Kalyani?

No, I don’t expect to loose my memory.

Are the memories about Santa disappeared?

No.

Can a concept be in control of anything?

No.

[Kalyani]

I have one question before I answer more questions. You said to see for myself and that seeing is like seeing the colour of the sky with eyes open. We are talking about sight, but sometimes the answer can’t be seen with the eyes, it is a mental answer. Maybe that’s why it’s hard to distinguish seeing and thinking. When you say SEE do you also mean KNOW.

As in, I can’t see with my eyes that thoughts come on their own. I know it though. knowing is mental/not tangible like seeing something. I think that’s why it’s easily confused with thinking. So is seeing = knowing?

[warissem]

Hi Kalyani

I am waiting for the answers of the remaining questions before sending the commentaries.

About your question : SEEING = KNOWING = BEING AWARE
Being aware of sights, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts, …

I do, but wouldn’t any answer be a train of thoughts? Anything I write down is a train of thoughts.

In a way, all what is said or written is a thought. There are thoughts which point to direct experience (sight, sound, smell, taste, sensation) and there are thoughts which point to other thoughts. When I say “it is a train of thought”, it means that your answer doesn’t point to direct experience.
Look again at your answer : it is ended by “I think” and the words have no actuality in direct experience :

I and ME concepts are still hanging on I think.

Please answer to the whole question which was : Have you seen that "I", "me" are concepts and there is no entity standing behind them?

Best wishes

[Kalyani]

Hi Warissem,

Have you seen that "I", "me" are concepts and there is no entity standing behind them?

I don’t know. On one hand I think I’ve SEEN, on the other hand i think maybe I just mentally agree that “I” and “me” are concepts with no entity standing behind them. Like I was saying in the previous post, I SEE thoughts coming on their own, I SEE body functioning on its own etc. but I have to mentally remind myself of all these facts so that I can say, yes I’ve seen there is no me. Now I think that is just being convinced/agreeing that there is no me as opposed to seeing.

I will now answer some more questions from the previous post.

Who or what is defeated by the resistance?

Good one haha, some thoughts are defeated by other thoughts about resistance.

Who or what does not like it?

Again, it’s just another random thought that came in and said “I don’t like it”

Who is trying to do it?

Well trying is happening. Thoughts come and remind to check the blog. This blog gets opened and read every day, exercises are done, answers typed. I don’t know who is doing the trying. The trying is being done.

Is there a doer in any shape or form? If the answer is yes, describe this doer as a five senses appearance.

No, there is no doer. I can only describe the body as a five senses appearance. So some of the doing is done by the body, but the body isn’t a doer.

What is this resistance in the field of the five senses : a sight, a sound, a smell, a taste or a sensation?

Resistance is thoughts and bodily sensations in response to those thoughts.

How is this resistance expressing itself?

Again, just a bunch of thoughts.

[warissem]

Good morning

I don’t know. On one hand I think I’ve SEEN, on the other hand i think maybe I just mentally agree that “I” and “me” are concepts with no entity standing behind them.

You continue to use "I think". Give answers through direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. Thoughts are used to communicate.
How many fingers do you have?
It is a question : you can answer from memory OR you can LOOK and SEE.
Now, you have seen ten fingers (if it is the case), the answer will be : I am 100% sure that there are ten fingers OR I think I have ten fingers?
Do you see the difference between being 100% sure and the doubting (when using "I think")?

Having said that, is there an entity standing behind "I", "me", Kalyani?
LOOK in the field of senses : is an entity seen behind the word "I"?
is an entity heard behind the word "I"?
is an entity smelt behind the word "I"?
is an entity tasted behind the word "I"?
is an entity touched or felt behind the word "I"?
The answer to each question is known (being aware of it) in plain view and it is a big fat NO or a big fat YES.

There is no need to comment all your answers because they are all turning about doubt. The above questions will help to see through doubts.

Best for you

[Kalyani]

Do you see the difference between being 100% sure and the doubting (when using "I think")?

Hi yes, I do see the difference. There is definitely doubt on my part.

LOOK in the field of senses : is an entity seen behind the word "I"?
is an entity heard behind the word "I"?
is an entity smelt behind the word "I"?
is an entity tasted behind the word "I"?
is an entity touched or felt behind the word "I"?

It is a big fat NO, there is no "entity" that can be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, touched or felt behind the word 'I".

But, there is a big fat YES to being able to see, hear, smell, taste, touch and feel the body. How do I know with certainty that I am not the body? At some point I heard this idea that I am not the body and it made sense, but most of my life I did believe firmly that I was the body. This is where the doubt is.

[warissem]

Good evening

Now, it is clear. Are you the body?
Is th body knowing thoughts?

You have done the exercise about the body : have you seen that a body is a bunch of sensations?

There is a difference between saying "I am the body" and "I know for sure that I am not the body but there is still identification with the body". Where you at exactly with this?

Best for you

[Kalyani]

Are you the body?
Is th body knowing thoughts?

Hi, I don’t know if I am or am not a body with 100% certainty. I know for sure i am at all times aware of this body here except when sleeping. The body is always part of the experience in any moment.

Is the body knowing thoughts? This is speculation and not direct experience. But I know there is brain activity when we think, brain is part of the body, so in that way one could say the body is knowing thoughts.

You have done the exercise about the body : have you seen that a body is a bunch of sensations?

Yes we have done it and I’ve seen that the body is experienced as moving sensations.

here is a difference between saying "I am the body" and "I know for sure that I am not the body but there is still identification with the body". Where you at exactly with this?

I do NOT know for sure that I am not the body.

[warissem]

Hi Kalyani

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times. Ponder on each question written in blue and answer separately to each of them.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?


Best for you