Can't find the I

[AntonD]

Hello Becca !

Sounds suspiciously like a strategy… ;)
Is there any option but being ‘with’ what is?

-No and everything is really fixing itself.

Where is the border between staying with it and thinking about staying with it?

- Don't know if there is a difference, a better phrase would maybe be just being, because it is really no one staying or not staying with it.

Is trust a doing? Another thought inserted in the being?

- It probably can be a doing dependent how your understanding of the word is, trust how I see it, is a no doing, just being, but who trusts? Really not even trust should be a thing, only what is.

Who feels better with knowing the ‘best’ way?

-Nobody is feeling anything, it's just sensations.
If feelings is, then it is a story of it, a relationship with the sensation to create the feeling part, sensation+ something.
If someone is feeling better it's probably a story, a thought.

- Much love Anton

[graceabounds]

Hello Anton,

As mentioned earlier I have shared the most recent few days of this conversation with some other guides at LU for additional avenues they see to inquire.

Guide A has two places for exploration:

today there was a few moments of relief, where something was cleared up, hard to know what to say, how to really know, there really can't be no self that is, but who knows, is it the 'me' or the knowing... Thoughts say that it's done, thoughts say it's something left, after that is recognized and returned to what is, trusting that presence will solve it.

In responding to questions are you reporting what you ACTUALLY SEE or are you actually accepting a thought as an answer? How can you be sure that you are actually LOOKING? (This can be so subtle when we are still THINKING that we are looking but actually we are not looking directly at experience.)


To the question “Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.” you wrote both:

Don’t know if there is a free will to be honest.

and

There is no choice and no control

If there is no choice and control how can there be free will?

[graceabounds]

Hit send before signing off! :)

Much love, and gratitude,
Becca

[AntonD]

Hello Becca,
Thank you for looking with other LU guides !
Alright I will try to answer this.

In responding to questions are you reporting what you ACTUALLY SEE or are you actually accepting a thought as an answer? How can you be sure that you are actually LOOKING? (This can be so subtle when we are still THINKING that we are looking but actually we are not looking directly at experience.)

- To be honest I don't really know how to answer this question but I would say looking is done for real when there is no more effort when it's done.
There is no one doing it anymore, and yes that can probably be very subtle, when there is thinking that are doing the looking, so to be honest I don't know how to know, if you have some more pointer I would love to test it.

To the question “Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.” you wrote both:

- There definitely is no free will and no choice and controll, that is for sure.


-Anton

[AntonD]

I would just like to say that when looking in actual raw experience, there is no self only what is, and that is really only unfolding by itself.
In the experience, reality is less and less stuck in labeling it, the labeling is recognized quicker, and freedom and relief returns.
So how to know if you are without a thinker at the forefront of experience, I would say when you are with the experience like sensations, thought, seeing, hearing, right at the center then you know, and really no one can even know.
Only staying with what is, and on and on through the day seeing and recognition this only doing, and finding nothing, every action is empty.

[graceabounds]

Hello Anton,

Seems like you fished around a bit in thought here with the first reply (“I don’t know” “I will try” etc) and then stopped, looked and came through with the second post.

Only staying with what is, and on and on through the day seeing and recognition this only doing, and finding nothing, every action is empty

Exactly. No self, no doer, no ownership, no one to know or be known. Just happening.


Since you asked for a pointer, here’s a little exercise which points out the difference between direct experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, color and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?
Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.


You don’t need to “get” anything. Simply stop pretending that the thinker is looking. It never was.

So now notice that urge to get it right, to test it, to find the exact pointer…
Tell me what happens when you look there, but don’t think about looking. :)

Much love,
Becca

[AntonD]

Hello Becca,
Alright let's try this.

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?

-No

Can you pour tea into it?

-No

Can you drink from it?

-No

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?

-There is no real cup, only mental image(thought).

Is there an appearing mental image?

- Yes there is a appearing mental image.

Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

- No the content is not real.

So now notice that urge to get it right, to test it, to find the exact pointer…
Tell me what happens when you look there, but don’t think about looking. :)

- Having a mental image of a cup in my mind, drinking out of it, then it dissappear, it looks like the cup was never there to begin with.
The condition is now space as before the mental image, and really it was the space during the mental image to.
The urge to get it right is gone.


I kinda need to just be for a while now, I see everything that you say, and it's obvious that it is like this.
Need to let the happening to just happen.

Thanks for everything Becca, you have been the best. Hopefully we can talk later ! Just write to me if there's anything, don't really know what to help you with, but just want to tell you that, or if you see something in our conversation that we need to talk about.
You been a big help for me, making me see, or the right word here would maybe be letting seeing see.

Gratitude and love is endless
-Anton

[graceabounds]

Hi Anton,

How about just: seeing. :)
“In the seen, simply the seen…”

Yes. Let everything settle for a bit. Nothing is changed of course, life goes on as it always has, but everything is different. I will be here if any doubts resurface or anything comes up that wants to be looked at together.

if you see something in our conversation that we need to talk about

There is one thing… circling all the way back to where this conversation began:
Is there an experience of electrical sensations in the body now? If so can you tell me a little about what is and has been happening with it? Are they concentrated or diffuse? Intense or more flowing? Has it changed at all during these days or is it currently dormant?

A mirror of endless love and gratitude,
Becca

[AntonD]

There is one thing… circling all the way back to where this conversation began:
Is there an experience of electrical sensations in the body now? If so can you tell me a little about what is and has been happening with it? Are they concentrated or diffuse? Intense or more flowing? Has it changed at all during these days or is it currently dormant?

-Yes they are here and present, it change and flow all the time, but it's areas like the top of head and forehead in where sensations are pretty constant, and like a needle or something like a drop inbetween eyebrows, electricity flowing through bottom of my feet, all of these sensations shifts and bends, it goes from pressure to expansive, and sometimes it feels like they are part of the world.
Had situations throughout our conversations where I felt totally center, not here or there, and in those situations it have been a feeling of flowing out the top of my head.
I would say that it's a more of a release now, less pressure, more expansive, but it's still pretty intense.
All talk is just labels on a feeling, that is known, but I just want to describe it to you.


Much love
- Anton

[graceabounds]

It is a part of the world. And something I have direct experience of both in this body and the bodies of others. It is common in this process, though the intensity varies.

The pressure and expansion are part of the overall flow. When inside and outside merge, the boundaries of the body in the space becomes diffuse, there is an outward movement. The energy is the space. I would expect, as all that we have been not doing here settles, this experience of release from the top of the head to continue.

The sensations inside the head, also from experience, have a lot to do with a rewiring of how information is processed when the mechanism of selfing loses prominence. This will likely continue to ebb and flow in the coming months as more layers of long held beliefs and stories come up to be looked at and released.

This is all thought of course, and ‘to know’ is unnecessary because it just is regardless of any knowing but perhaps helpful to have a sense that this energy has an intelligence that can be trusted. Fear or resistance can make the same sensations more intense and uncomfortable.

Will DM you some resources in a bit.

Much love,
Becca

[AntonD]

This was really helpful, Thanks for the Dm to!

Really you have been the best, thanks for everything.
So nice of you that we can keep in touch via e-mail, thanks for that to.

So much love, really thanks a thousand of times !

-Anton