Did all ready happened

[poppyseed]

Hey Indi

I'm glad all is good! Looking forward ...
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hey Indi

I'm glad all is good! Looking forward ...
Love
Rali

[Indivindi]

Hi Rali,
I am back for further pointing.
We can look at emotions. There is nothing to loose…
Kaboom!

Concrete subject, happened last days and that stuck here with may situations with people.
Relationships with people >>> impatience >>> frustration >>> anger >>> destruction of relationships

Some friend calls me. I was in a good mood after hearing from him. It seems he had some idea to do things for me in the field of DJing as he is designer and marketing strategist. We talked. He decides to think over the weekend what we can do. We talk and I write some details thinking about how this is here.
Weekend goes round. No feedback. We talked on other minor topics regarding questions about how to use social network functions as I hadn't used them in a while.
I notice nothing is coming from him so I confront him where the hook is. He is prolonging. Here I lose patience, waiting, empty talking, no action. Tomorrow, he said. I try to joke around everything to lose tension. And that tomorrow didn’t come. 14 days have passed by… seriously...in the past I knocked on the door and just said hello, we talked and it was so simple...now days...uff...so many reasons, excuses, life/time/kids/loans... WTF? So then I joke around it, provoking and almost becoming rude... destructional, misbehaveuring... I just don't know what to do with people any more...selling fog, who are not for action...especially if they are coming from some past experience when I use to work with them, I gave them opportunities...but now days many just care for their own asses...and that brought with use of this stupid degrading mobile technologies to where we are today...and I accept that we are in nature selfish.
I don't have anything against people, but people have constantly something against me. No matter weather they are from regular, employees or spiritual circles. And this stepping away from the world doesn't work either.

So I don’t know any more how or what to do with people in general. They don’t seem serious; they neglect basic words they express. If I say tomorrow it is the next day and I call you. At least to say look I can’t deliver or whatever.
And that blows my sleeping volcano in me.
Not that I would curse people, but I am tired of emptiness in all thinking that is appearing. I don’t know how to handle any of it. It’s so boring it’s so out of the sense. Don’t know how or what to do as this stuff is just appearing.
Everything is so slow. Even this process is slow. Life is so impersonal, empty happening for no one. Observing that that is appearing in front and as thoughts.
It’s making me unwilling, empathic. Empty. Alone. Un-understandable.
Nothing makes any sense, I can't find a word in English for it…this is the closest I can describe: This sucks, this is stupid, this is ridiculous.

No one here to get anywhere. I understand that. All thoughts come by themselves. Understand. So what is there we are doing? If everything is self perpetuating.
Whatever this what we call 'life is happen' can change itself – isn’t it?. Or happens differently. Yes I would like to completely annihilate this part of awareness’, that we point out that all are just thoughts, that these feelings are thoughts and senses.

It just doesn’t make a shift within this what is here. It’s senseless that thoughts appear here. Yes I know it’s dark here. Just a part of it. More thinking about what is going on in life, also with this process you help me out, more frustration feeling is popping out too. If I don’t do it it’s the same. Frustration persisting.
Just can’t , don’t know what to do with anything / everything with any more?

I know everything we point out, but see this here isn’t changing, just happening on repeat – and is tiring.

>>>>Guiding others helps tremendously to see unexamined beliefs, so I would definitely recommend that if you have the time and desire.<<<<
This here whatever is happening is still here for that guidance and pointing out.

sex sensuality
What a broad topic. Something a bit more specific?

This is persisting, with thoughts of having sex relation with many females. Changing partners the beholder's eyes would see in nice colors. But that is also part of illusion, as it doesn’t happen and is just blood sucking thoughts that keep on appearing.

Beauty you can say hides in experiencing all – the bad, the ugly, the good – it hides in plain sight. But it takes time to see it.

:P How promising :) not! I am not there...

Can you force yourself to be attracted to someone or it just happens? But the love you seek is really love for life itself. The heart wants to love freely, openly, and limitlessly. Wanting more is just that—wanting. Spontaneous actions are happening, and so is the thought story (self-organizing around the experience).

I am attracted spontaneously, triggered on every corner. And all that is like licking a honey through a closed jar of honey. So even wanting makes reactions…what to do, OK I can say don’t expect. Then why and what with wishes. Noting they just popped up as thoughts. So what now? What to do with it? Nothing you aren’t a doer. Don’t get it what to love about life. There isn’t me, nothing is in my control, things just happen, thoughts happen, senses are here … I don’t know what to love about it? So even those few thoughts that seem like parts of loving my life, makes other thoughts that made these feelings I become apathetic about the whole life thing and impersonal spontaneousness. At the end of the day, I just don’t know what to ? What for?

If there is action you can take when a want comes up, then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release.
Is there an “I” that engages with the “wants”. Is there a doer that responds to the wants? just noticing, staying in being. “If there is action you can take when a want comes up, then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release.”

I am tired of watching life that is happening, waiting. I would like at least some part that is interesting, that will have meaning, to focus and keep me in the flow.
Some things are happening in the last two weeks in the field of DJing. But there so many things I just don’t like to take action that I suppose to do that DJing might develop…(social media, spending time on internet, doing content sharing, building audience – all that crap if you ask me). Doing everything else ( 99%) than DJing at some venue (1%) and seeing obstacles in how things aren’t happening while trying to build up opportunities. I feel resistance toward that action, it’s ultra-slow and it’s illusory for most people don’t lead to nowhere, few of them succeed. So why waste time…
So I could just sit in the corner and watch, depressed…with all that crap of thoughts that appear when you are in a still position.
I am becoming tired of everything. All those few moments of life that this here finally slinked in…where is there satisfaction.

For a day or two, just watch the wanting that comes up.
In what area does it show up the most? Where is the biggest lack felt?
Bringing attention to the mechanism of wanting will reveal curious things.

Sex (Variety ) & DJing (just playing sound I like and share it with people that like it too)
Curious things about the mechanism of wanting – nothing particularly curious about it. Damn thoughts that persist, and triggers same reactions of lack, wish, wanting.
Not happening. What else to do in life? Then life just is and to me it’s boring. Nothing to catch up for. I don’t know what life wants from me. I don’t know what to do any more, I even wish I found stupid and empty life shots…If this life vanishes I wouldn’t mind. Waiting is an ass killer. Nothing seems interesting to me.

We also have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those at some point?

I’ll do it when you wish me to do it…

We can continue exploring together. What else to do :) even though this thinking is hard as I just don’t see when I am looking. And this can be frustrating too.

So still things to do :/
Cheers indi

PS: On bright side of life
My DJ sets are positioned in the top 5 on different charts. I do some following of people that follow back my social channels for music. I had some talks with the owner of a place I visited for a performance. Later when I send promo materials days go by and I become impatient with no feedback. Then I got a message where there is a rush…things with so-called advanced technologies just slows down old ways of life happening. People don't have time and I have all the time. People have many virtual friends and messages I rarely have. At the end of the day we wrote to each other with the owner of the venue and told our different situations. Few days ago he listened and we are talking about setting up a gig performance. So it’s not all so bad. You see :) Is it slow? Yes it is.

And I see how I can’t bear all the bolocks around the music industry any more. But the simple old school way of booking doesn’t work often either. I don’t exist on the map of likes/followers/opinion making, I don’t exist as an entity either and most people don't know that :) , crap is selling for good, music selection doesn’t matter, lousy music production is trend, no clubbing, inexperienced people doing things and literary unaware people eat shit and buy it for best of the best …all is one big degradation in sphere of happening…so at the end of the day what to do? If not something with house music…at the end of last square this is the only thing that is getting to my heart and softens it. I could cry…while music still stroking my heart.

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi

It’s good to have you back! And you are back with a bam :)
Unfortunately, I don't think "you" will like what I have to say and point to.
It all boils down to expectations (still empty thoughts). You sound disappointed that none of your problems got solved (expectations) – yeah, no self bla bla, but my problems are still here. The expectation here is that with the discovery that there is no self all problems will automatically disappear and there will be non stop bliss, happiness, excitement and meaning in life :). Are these expectations yours to resolve? To whom do they belong or they just appear as any other empty thought with no master/thinker?
Are the problems in your life really yours to solve? Who said that, thought? Are you the experiencer of problems? What happened to life/THIS being perfect the way it is because it can’t be any other way? Can any of those things that you are describing happen in any other way? Really?! Because there is someone out there that decides what happens to you – God – and you can blame them for dealing you a bad hand? When it comes to story making – it’s all cause and effect, one thing leading to another, leading to another (karma in Buddhist terms). But as we saw cause and effect talk about non-existing stuff (at least not in the way thought describes it) – like "friends", like "boring", like "frustration", like "people that don’t do things right", like "social media", etc…You have DE to check what is really there and then form conclusions (still thoughts) about implications. So let’s look things from DE. Remember we are not here to solve your problems and make your life more exciting, discover a new and improved “you”/”not you” who has no problems - wrong forum, New Age s#!t deals with that BS. We are here to see that problems are not really problems if you look at them from DE POV.
Remember, your whole “world” is built on empty concepts. You want more meaningful life where there is no meaning for no one – just icons on your desktop aka labels pointing to experiencing/THIS. There is no meaning in experiencing, it is just on. It will happen meaning or no meaning.
All of these stories started long time ago (not last week) – this is not about “them” but how “you” see the world – remember it is “your world”. There are no "people" outside of experiencing *that would be an assumption). If you want exciting you have to redefine what’s "exciting" is, or what “boring” is because they are really not set in stone – their meaning is conditional. The problem is not with “others” but with the story – how things are described. That’s why I gave you the tools how to look at what is real and what is just plain old conditioned thoughts multiplying in fertile ground (not looking).

Let’s look at some stories and you’ll catch the drift…

I notice nothing is coming from him so I confront him where the hook is. He is prolonging. Here I lose patience, waiting, empty talking, no action. Tomorrow, he said. I try to joke around everything to lose tension. And that tomorrow didn’t come. 14 days have passed by… seriously...in the past I knocked on the door and just said hello, we talked and it was so simple...now days...uff...so many reasons, excuses, life/time/kids/loans... WTF? So then I joke around it, provoking and almost becoming rude... destructional, misbehaveuring...

What is that? Definitely not DE… What are "others" in DE – mostly colours and thought patterns about these colours, right? Are you on control, are you the decision maker, the captain of your ship or things just happen? Are “they”? Can a colour decide how to behave? Is there anyone that decides, or things are just happening the way they are, and thought add stories about your decisions and others’ decisions, etc.? At this point, there should be a mistrust to anything thoughts says. To road to peaceful stories is full of looking into old "problematic" ones. Even to define one story as problematic is a bit too much. What seems like a problem to one is a solution to others. Every thing in your world is conditioned - a house of cards. We've been taking out some of the bottom ones with the hope that that the pyramid crumbles but some hang tighter than others. This process is a long one almost never ending, but it does get better (for whom?)
When you start looking a lot of these “things” start looking funny. If you want “solutions” then start looking where the real problems are – the story. Is it true?

Let’s look at emotions

Emotion = sensation + thought
Let’s look at ‘anger’. You can do this exercise with any emotions - frustration, anxiety, boredom, whatever.

When ‘anger’ appears, close your eyes and do the following:

1) Look at the label/thought ‘anger’ itself. See the label/word ‘anger’ as a typewritten word

Does the label ‘anger’ know anything about anger, or is the word just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘anger’ itself anger?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is angry?

2) Then look at the sensation and ignore everything else but the sensation itself.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘anger’.
Look and see if the sensation itself is the angry self. If the words ‘yes’ , or ‘yes, this is the self’ appears, go back to Step 1 and see the words and repeat step 1.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is ‘anger’ or that it is angry?
Can you find anyone or anything within or behind the sensation that is ‘angry’?

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is angry, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is angry as you did in step 1.

3) Look at the mental image/outline labelled body.

Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘anger’?
Can you find anyone/anything in the image/colour itself that knows anything about ‘anger’ or that can be ‘angry’.

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is angry, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is angry, as you did in step 1.

4) With eyes still closed look everywhere (look where thought says your feet are, to the left and right, up above…look everywhere) and see if you can find anyone or anything that is angry.

Did you find anyone or anything that is angry?

When you have done this and if no one/no thing is found, then just sit with the sensation. Just breathe normally, notice the thoughts and images that appear and let them pass on by unless they seem to hang around, then do the appropriate steps above. Allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it. If it becomes too intense just take a couple of deep breaths into the sensation itself, and then notice the floor under your feet, notice your backside on the chair and then notice what is in the room you are sitting in and name them out loud, while being aware of the sensation and remember to breathe normally. If the sensation does not dissipate at all or only dissipates a little, that is okay, just notice it, without doing anything with it and just go about your day.

We are not trying to get rid of the sensation labelled ‘anger’ or the arising thoughts or images. We are only LOOKING to see what is actually appearing (ie thought, sensation, colour/image) as opposed to what thought is saying ABOUT what actually IS. Freedom comes from allowing whatever appears to appear without the need for it to be different or to leave.

Let me know how you go.

love
Rali

[Indivindi]

Hi Rali…

I just like what you do here and hope that these tools will become a part of my daily recognition/looking especially in juicy situations.

The expectation here is that with the discovery that there is no self all problems will automatically disappear and there will be non-stop bliss, happiness, excitement and meaning in life :).
Are these expectations yours to resolve? To whom do they belong or they just appear as any other empty thought with no master/thinker?

These aren’t fully my expectation. Somehow this here has less and less of any of it. On the other hand expectations just are or aren't.

And they aren’t mine to resolve, they just appear as thoughts so I can only look at it. And don’t know what to do at the end of the day just staring/looking into what is going on-life. Somehow I don’t know what to do with the tools... Look, look and look...and then what ? Like I have a wish for a reason. Which is also expectation…a thought about anything. Like I just don’t know how to blend in or just BE. And let happenings be. Like I need a meaning even though I realize there isn’t any. That all is just happening, empty happening. And there is emptiness, why to live? Just to let it be…for the sake of life itself.

And all that that I am writing are just empty thoughts, that are typed (sensation) I see on a screen as color of white and black. What I see I am turning in the circle. Sort of thoughts of understanding and then opposition to thoughts. And as there is no me as thoughts just appear, is there anything that can be done. Nothing except looking at it and seeing it as it is. And then what living just on these 5 senses and thoughts…And all that will start to happen with or without me …as it will happen by itself.

Are the problems in your life really yours to solve?

NO. The situations are here and they go their own way…up/down whatever or just they are with no labeling.

Who said that, thought?

They are all appearing, other about thoughts are just speculations. We could say from source, but is there a source? Looking with DE there are thoughts. That’s it. No one owns them.

Are you the experiencer of problems?

NO. Problems aren’t problems at all (label) , just happening that's what they are. Popping up events.

What happened to life/THIS being perfect the way it is because it can’t be any other way? Can any of those things that you are describing happen in any other way? Really?!

Yes everything is as it is. It is perfect no matter what is going on.

But in relationships with others, this is a challenge. They have expectations. Needs. Claim. Rules.
And this part I don’t know how to handle in real life happening. As This can become dislocated, not a dam giver, confusion for them… But yes all is just happening at the end, not mine happening, so life will turn it as always does as it wants. So if things are about to change they will.

And what then just be raw to the surroundings. I mean rawness can be if it’s meant to appear…or drama…or fear…or ecstasy…politenes..kindness..whatever…who gives a shit for any of it that appears. Is that how one should just let it be…and just decoding what happening is…and then what ? :) That’s it…
Is there something more possible… NO.

Because there is someone out there that decides what happens to you – God – and you can blame them for dealing you a bad hand?

If there is a god it’s his game no one to blame. Hands are just happening…
:P

You have DE to check what is really there and then form conclusions (still thoughts) about implications. So let’s look things from DE. We are here to see that problems are not really problems if you look at them from DE POV.

Agree, just more of what is happening and looking with DE tools will show all those bubbles of illusion into what they really are. But it seems I just forget that or these here just run old programs especially when some new happenings appear (like now new interactions/happenings based on life flow) and these here aren't observing them with DE tools as expectation overwhelms these happenings that are. And wishing big or small takes over, creates the illusion of right/wrong…and then life starts to cycle round empty thoughts which look so real while forgetting to look with DE tools. Good.

The problem is not with “others” but with the story – how things are described. That’s why I gave you the tools how to look at what is real and what is just plain old conditioned thoughts multiplying in fertile ground (not looking).

YES, I must take that more often in consideration…always while fertile/drama happening overtakes me…just look what it is and it will resolve that what is not … and repeating it will sink in as part of routine how to look life…

Let’s look at some stories and you’ll catch the drift…
I notice nothing is coming from him so I confront him where the hook is. He is prolonging. Here I lose patience, waiting, empty talking, no action. Tomorrow, he said. I try to joke around everything to lose tension. And that tomorrow didn’t come. 14 days have passed by… seriously...in the past I knocked on the door and just said hello, we talked and it was so simple...now days...uff...so many reasons, excuses, life/time/kids/loans... WTF? So then I joke around it, provoking and almost becoming rude... destructional, misbehaveuring...

What is that? Definitely not DE… What are "others" in DE – mostly colours and thought patterns about these colours, right?

Yes looking at it they are just thoughts expressed through sound while talking to them on the phone…so nothing else…nothing to take seriously with DE, as DE just takes seriously what is granted :)


Thinking that is happening here now is like I am constantly pulled on old grounds, the life stories of mine or of others and I forget about the tools, this DE way of looking that easily just describes what everything is…

Must take it somehow more “serious”…walking – talk. Practice, looking, looking, looking…perhaps not all the time but eventually it will become a part of what it anyway is.

But then when you are with others what do you talk about? How to talk? :)
This here then is too much again on this DE tools mode of function, in the head thinking all the time, explaining…I just become weirdo. Then everything that is and people talk becomes senseless…I don't know what to do, I keep myself isolated from the world...

Are you on control, are you the decision maker, the captain of your ship or things just happen?

YES, it happens…and all these questions now and writing is happening too. I got that. Then I just don’t know what with life…as any how this that I just don’t know what with life is also a part of DE just appearing. All that is just happening. I - as these thoughts, moments, drama, arguing, energy, feeling modes are just happening. This I just don't let it go that there isn’t I :) Not I as a word describing the difference between two, but I that happens/doing this life. I guess, DE looking needs to be happening and with it it will happen whatever will happen…without expectation. Just remember the tools, use them…that’s all I can say to this here…look…it will dissolve what is not…

Are “they”? Can a colour decide how to behave? Is there anyone that decides, or things are just happening the way they are, and thoughts add stories about your decisions and others’ decisions, etc.?

Colore, sound don’t decide anything…everything if I said from the other side is also just appearing…happening…we are all just happens to happen.
So words, thoughts, sounds, colores are just happening for no particular right/wrong reason…for no reason at all, they are just happening in that way. Their way on both sides, everywhere. part of the same at the End. End.

At this point, there should be a mistrust to anything thoughts says.

This might be tricky here as I observe it now. My thoughts appearing, thinking appearing and as ‘I am or thought process is happening here a lot’ – too much ‘I am thinking person all the time’ I notice this circulation of thoughts/ways/levels/options/dividing/measuring/… to the point that head about to explode, to become lunatic/insane…totally crazy cyclic … But those are also just thoughts that I can’t do anything about it…just try to look at them as that. And I can’t stop it, they stop/change when they change… So this what is going on here is also a part of that that is just occurring.

And the sound (words) of others still touch me, like you are this and this to me, you behave like that, you are no good, this isn’t the way, etiquettes are like that, moral values are like that…but all that from others are just empty sounds (thoughts/words). This here is happening as it is happening…I am not in control, there isn’t me. What is coming out as this ‘manifestation’ is happening all by itself…and also others/other things are also just happening…Is that so?

So if I said I don’t give a f++++ it is just an empty thought/word/sound…that is totally empty…it might be that it will revolve/happen in that way or not in future situations occurring…
So if this here is cursing and others have reaction to it everything is as it is. This (me) here is happening… So if I get punched is just a sensation that’s happening without any reason…as I curse as a part of noncontrolling happening, that’s how the opposite colore/person happens to react as physical punch (sensation). So punching might or doesn’t happen.

All you can do is look and see what is core, foundational looking. What is happening is happening, there isn’t you to have any control of it.

This process is a long one almost never ending, but it does get better (for whom?)
If you want “solutions” then start looking where the real problems are – the story. Is it true?

OK, it’s nice that this is happening to no One but as overall as getting better…it’s normal because just realizing/looking at what things are is good, no matter how you label things and situations that are happening.

And yes stories/thoughts are solutions to how you look at them in the world around you.

And there are so many crazy stories that have happened to me since 2000-2020 that this here is what you see also as a part of why am I not correctly interpreting/looking at those stories…especially intense ones. Wanna hear some of the best surviving mode candies…should we dig into it, just to see if I look now with DE in the right way? And if there are hooks that hold me strangled…???

Let’s look at emotions
Emotion = sensation + thought
‘anger’

When ‘anger’ appears, close your eyes and do the following:
1) Look at the label/thought ‘anger’ itself. See the label/word ‘anger’ as a typewritten word
Does the label ‘anger’ know anything about anger, or is the word just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘anger’ itself anger?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is angry?

Jp just letters that don't have any clue about anger. Label itself isn’t anger. No identity that is angry anywhere.

2) Then look at the sensation and ignore everything else but the sensation itself.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘anger’.
Look and see if the sensation itself is the angry self. If the words ‘yes’ , or ‘yes, this is the self’ appears, go back to Step 1 and see the words and repeat step 1.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is ‘anger’ or that it is angry?

No suggestion, sensation is just sensation/energy.

Can you find anyone or anything within or behind the sensation that is ‘angry’?

NO it just like in the air/a thin air of nothing

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is angry, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is angry as you did in step 1.

Parallel I am doing this also with ‘disappointment’. And as I see this process just dismantle the illusion about what emotions/feelings are not. Well what they are…

Sometimes I can see mental images of myself to whom that is happening but with step one to two and three you get to clear out to the bottom. ...to letters

3) Look at the mental image/outline labeled body.
Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘anger’?

No, body is peaceful, no slightest idea about anger :)

So how so that parallel with anger a physical violence happens many times...so if aggressive physical sensations (fight, punching) happen in 'anger mode', they are just happening? So colors are fighting :) , a movie is happening, war in Ukraine is happening with all strange happenings ...

Can you find anyone/anything in the image/colour itself that knows anything about ‘anger’ or that can be ‘angry’.

No impression about anyone/anything in the image/colour itself that knows anything about ‘anger’ or that can be ‘angry’.

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is angry, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is angry, as you did in step 1.

Yes just images that are arising and subsiding…dissolving into what they are…letters without attachments or self-labeling this is happening to person

4) With eyes still closed look everywhere (look where thought says your feet are, to the left and right, up above…look everywhere) and see if you can find anyone or anything that is angry.
Did you find anyone or anything that is angry?

NO, looking at it this way and with this process you see it doesn’t exist it is an illusion :) huh
Does it mean that all feelings and emotions are just that…part of illusion until you realize what they are, how they are constructed or in what state they exist?

When you have done this and if no one/no thing is found, then just sit with the sensation. Just breathe normally, notice the thoughts and images that appear and let them pass on by unless they seem to hang around, then do the appropriate steps above. Allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it. If it becomes too intense just take a couple of deep breaths into the sensation itself, and then notice the floor under your feet, notice your backside on the chair and then notice what is in the room you are sitting in and name them out loud, while being aware of the sensation and remember to breathe normally. If the sensation does not dissipate at all or only dissipates a little, that is okay, just notice it, without doing anything with it and just go about your day.

OK some sensation just lasts and some just vanish…they come and go. The one that wants to last let them last.

We are not trying to get rid of the sensation labelled ‘anger’ or the arising thoughts or images. We are only LOOKING to see what is actually appearing (ie thought, sensation, colour/image) as opposed to what thought is saying ABOUT what actually IS. Freedom comes from allowing whatever appears to appear without the need for it to be different or to leave.

And for that it will take some time…but we are getting there.

Thank you for this pillar of understanding and practical process. I just think I will print it out and wear it in my pocket :) to become handy when whatever ‘dramatic’ starts to happen…just to put it in the right frame until it becomes a part of the blood stream…

Nice, I like it you see ;)
Interesting indications...definitely another small step that directs me to what it is and how to approach to it.
Good, Good love it.

All the best ,

Indi

PS: it’s always the best hehehe
 

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi
:)
I always make this analogy with 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. These are basically the stages thoughts circle around in “mourning” the "death" of self. Which stage do you think thoughts are in your experience?

And they aren’t mine to resolve, they just appear as thoughts so I can only look at it. And don’t know what to do at the end of the day just staring/looking into what is going on-life. Somehow I don’t know what to do with the tools... Look, look and look...and then what ? Like I have a wish for a reason. Which is also expectation…a thought about anything. Like I just don’t know how to blend in or just BE. And let happenings be. Like I need a meaning even though I realize there isn’t any. That all is just happening, empty happening. And there is emptiness, why to live? Just to let it be…for the sake of life itself.

Let’s look at this one thing at a time
Emptiness in Buddhist terms does not mean nothingness – it just points to the fact that all things are empty of intrinsic existence and nature, and have dependent origination. Here is a short video that explains that well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYqaWmc ... 4&index=41
Do you have a choice to live life or not? I’m sure thoughts say “yes” but do you really? LOOK!
Do you have to do anything? Is there anyone outside of thoughts that has to decide what to do with them? Can you zoom onto that seeking energy... and see what is it made of? What is seeking made of? Seeking means that I'm searching FOR something. What is that? What is it really that is being sought? What is the I that is doing the inquiry?
What is doing the concentration/looking? In order to do it, there has to be something apart from it and trying to focus on it. So, is there something apart from it, doing it? Trying to stay there, practice looking? Is it possible that this focusing happens effortlessly, done by nothing, no-one?

As long as the personal self manifests (in thoughts) and is believed in (by whom?), there could be a desire to go forward, or go deeper. So it will seem like “I'm doing it”... but then a sudden shift in perception happens, and it's seen that there is no one inside the body doing anything. But the next moment the person manifests as if it were a real entity, and then it's still doing it. It still wants to go forward. This yo-yoing, or flip-flopping can happen quite quickly and many (even hundred) times a day, depending on the gravity of the default setting, OR what is being triggered in any moment. The more painful baggage the seeming person carries, the more often the personal I will be triggered into manifestation – the illusion become delusion. So seeing won't be 24/7, as untrue beliefs come up to be questioned. This can go on for months & years.
This does not mean the self is coming back and going away - it's just thoughts reorganising. The initial shift is irreversible. This gradual dissolution of self (the old thought patterns) rarely happens on its own, meaning without the doing of the seeming self. Most of the times further inquiry is needed, as long as any sense of self (thoughts about self) is left. There is a big difference between seeing that there is no personal self, and the full dissolution of the sense of self. When I say dissolution I mean no more stories about a self, not that the self disappears/dies. Remember it never existed in the first place.

But in relationships with others, this is a challenge. They have expectations. Needs. Claim. Rules.
And this part I don’t know how to handle in real life happening. As This can become dislocated, not a dam giver, confusion for them… But yes all is just happening at the end, not mine happening, so life will turn it as always does as it wants. So if things are about to change they will.

How is it known that “they” have expectations, needs, claim, rules? Can a colour have expectations? When you talk about “others” you are basically talking about “foreign” thought patterns, ones that either fit or don't with the core beliefs. What is the difference between an “enemy” and “friend” in DE? Is it the colours that make them that? How is “others’” speech experienced in DE? There are seeing, hearing and thinking/interpretation of that hearing. So whose is the interpretation? ”Yours”, “theirs”? Or it just appears as thoughts belonging to no one? If it is seen that you don't own a mind then how can others own their minds? Look at our conversation. How is Rali experienced? Just letters appearing on the screen and assumption about a person, right? "You read the words" – seeing, thinking/interpreting of meaning. The understanding of the meaning of these words is entirely up to your conditioning. So all that is happening here is seeing and thinking (not mine or yours just thinking).

But then when you are with others what do you talk about? How to talk? :)
This here then is too much again on this DE tools mode of function, in the head thinking all the time, explaining…I just become weirdo. Then everything that is and people talk becomes senseless…I don't know what to do, I keep myself isolated from the world...

Are you doing the talking? Language, seeming communication happen, words are seemingly exchanged – the icons on your desktop giving meaning to experience, making sense of zeros and ones. That is also experience, happening to no one. Experience flows, thinking in the form of "communication" or "voice in the head", flows with it. Thoughts cluster on many levels – “personal”, “social”, “cultural”. But thoughts are self-organised. They’ve always “done” what they’ve “done” – there wasn’t a thinker before and now it disappeared, it’s always been like that – so nothing that new. The same pronouns and words are used just the story is taken a bit more lightly as its empty nature is seen.
We can still use first-person pronouns to describe “ourselves” with the same ease we always had, even if such ideas have no more actual meaning than talking about Santa Claus once we learn “he” doesn’t exist either. The separate “self” is seen to have been nothing more than inference and interpretation. There’s simply nobody (t)here! Because there never was a “self” in the first place, no longer believing that we have or are a separate “self” is not a destructive or negative experience: there is no ‘self’ that died, and there is no new ‘self’ ("not self") that takes its place. Life goes on with or without the concept of “I”. Have you heard the zen proverb: “Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”
What do you think it refers to?

So if this here is cursing and others have reaction to it everything is as it is. This (me) here is happening… So if I get punched is just a sensation that’s happening without any reason…as I curse as a part of noncontrolling happening, that’s how the opposite colore/person happens to react as physical punch (sensation). So punching might or doesn’t happen.

You still approach this as “here” and “there”, “inside” and “outside”. “Punching” is still a story about sensations. Does the sense of self appears simultaneously with the resistance to what is? Use the interaction with others to notice how the interactions with "different people" triggers different responses. Notice that "you" are not the person who suffers but "you" arises simultaneously with the struggle/resistance that generates the suffering. Every interaction with "others" can be an opportunity to notice that.
Cause and effect exist only in stories, as there is no time, no one moment giving way to another… However, chopping wood for the fire provides warmth. There is nothing wrong with the story as long as it is taken lightly, free from neediness and dissatisfaction, out of the drama, out of “not enough,” seen with fresh eyes. Everything is the same but looks different. The story changes. The story is recognised to be just a story and not reality, the glue that holds the story in focus all the time suddenly starts dissolving. The story is no longer believed to be “the truth of how things are.” It is seen as a description, an interpretation, or an entertaining thought. It becomes easier to "step back" and notice that there is something else going on besides the thought-story; it becomes possible to notice peace underneath all thoughts.

Wanna hear some of the best surviving mode candies…should we dig into it, just to see if I look now with DE in the right way? And if there are hooks that hold me strangled…???

You think you are suffering, and this is the suffering. Yes, the story that your thoughts tell about suffering is the suffering. The story comes with emotions that you feel and resist. The story is a chain of thoughts about the “me” who is suffering. But let me ask you this: where is that “me” who claims to be the owner of feelings? There is a story about a victim—a person who is tortured. Thoughts say that there is a victim.
Physical pain is unavoidable (especially of painkillers are not an option ;) ). You may look at it, and thank it for showing up. It’s an opportunity to release it rather than resisting. However, emotional pain (suffering) is optional. How does suffering appear in the body? It’s a sensation of contraction, of unwanted emotion. There is a sensation of tightness or emptiness like a dark, empty hole, but the description we use isn’t the point. Bringing attention to sensing rather than thinking about suffering allows the tension to start dissolving. If you keep the focus on feeling, just letting it be there, letting it be okay, just watching the raw energy without naming it, the suffering starts to dissipate.
So, just to summarise, two things can be done: one, looking for Indi, to the person that this experience is happening TO, the one that FEELS these emotions, and the other, to work on the emotional trauma/wound that is being triggered. Basically, all emotions can be seen for what they are (like the anger exercise) and the sensations experienced freely without the story. Instead of the usual no, you can start saying yes to intense feelings, and just feel them openly. Each reaction is an invitation to look. Feelings pass quickly if there is no grasping. Surrendering is what is left when resistance to what is ends. When feelings arise, give them space. Feel them, honour them. Say yes to whatever is here. So be it. It is here already. It is here with and without your acceptance and approval. It’s already here. It’s okay to feel it. That is how you address trauma, no matter what the story is. Seeing that there is no separate self is NOT the end. Actually, it's just the beginning, the first step. Lots of further inquiry and emotional work is needed to fully live it. Let all the stuff that no longer serves get deconstructed, uncreated, released, dissolved, melted away, and gone. Who needs those fear-laden patterns, right? So be it.

Try dealing with one of these "candies" that pops into mind and let me know if you need any help with it. Basically, any unpleasant emotion or resistance is a sure sign for a story that need investigation

Let me know how it goes

Love
Rali

[Indivindi]

Hi Rali

I always make this analogy with 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. These are basically the stages thoughts circle around in “mourning” the "death" of self. Which stage do you think thoughts are in your experience?

I am in all five stages. Depends on the topic. But mostly bargaining and depression. It is impossible just to say what stage because these thoughts are also curious and part of it are slowly also in acceptance. What else you can do if not except what it is. And even not except :) because all it is IS. Whether this here looks or not.

Do you have a choice to live life or not?

NO then I wouldn’t talk to you.

I’m sure thoughts say “yes” but do you really? LOOK!

My thoughts say NO. But while talking longer about something they appear as YES. bargaining.

Do you have to do anything?

No, I am not doing any of it.

Is there anyone outside of thoughts that has to decide what to do with them?

No one

Can you zoom onto that seeking energy... and see what is it made of?

Thoughts appear as part of dependent existence.

What is seeking made of? Seeking means that I'm searching FOR something.

It’s made of thinking that appears…looking for the answers of thought stories. Those are all thoughts.

What is that? What is it really that is being sought?

That you are catching your own tail is sought. We sought freedom, love, truth, and end. They are thought concepts, words, latters. We sought for emptiness that always is - depending on existence. We sought just to let it be. We sought an escape to better understand it. We don’t seek anything, seeking is happening by itself. [/quote]

What is the I that is doing the inquiry?

I is a thought concept of invisible identity in this individual life perception. Individuality that is part of this movie happening everywhere as dependency as whole. I am is just another of many things happening's.

What is doing the concentration/looking? In order to do it, there has to be something apart from it and trying to focus on it.

Concentration is just happening. Thinking is happening that is focused. That's the flow of thoughts happening.

>>‘it is coming from the source, if we assume there is one’<< in DE doesn’t matter if there is one.

So, is there something apart from it, doing it? Trying to stay there, practice looking?

There is oneness happening. No one apart from what it is. IT is happening.

Is it possible that this focusing happens effortlessly, done by nothing, no-one?

IT seem so, everything is happening effortlessly, by itself.

How is it known that “they” have expectations, needs, claim, rules? Can a colour have expectations? When you talk about “others” you are basically talking about “foreign” thought patterns, ones that either fit or don't with the core beliefs.

Well I will try to look now about what you point out. I mean I am doing it all along just to let you know. Hehehe just observing stories in front of me…using tools, it’s looking funny…metime I just don’t know what to say or how to react (it appears like that while I look/observe me/this in action) but as you said, when self-get involved in my thoughts/story happening…sort of drama occur…

What is the difference between an “enemy” and “friend” in DE? Is it the colours that make them that?

No difference, just colores

How is “others’” speech experienced in DE? There are seeing, hearing and thinking/interpretation of that hearing.

Speech is sound if the self story doesn’t enter and builds up an illusion.

So whose is the interpretation? ”Yours”, “theirs”? Or it just appears as thoughts belonging to no one? If it is seen that you don't own a mind then how can others own their minds?

No ones. Stuff popping up in a sequence of moments.

How is Rali experienced?

As interesting feedback feeding me with stuff. Happening is dictating to her to deliver/interact :)
Hehe if I could put it in the words, so I don’t trigger questioning on it :)
Interaction of two from the same source triggers it for both of us :)
Like ‘someone’ is playing with two puppets and they have this interesting debate :)

Are you doing the talking?

That’s what I am noticing NO. This is funny :)

Have you heard the zen proverb: “Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”
What do you think it refers to?

To life manifesting whether we realize life is going on with or without false/illusory I. Stories about what is not.

Does the sense of self appear simultaneously with the resistance to what is?

Stories suddenly appear that trigger self-experience happening.
And I started to look to interactions…haha…it so funny what we are kidding yourself when self is in the game/response part of the story happening to nonexistent me… hahaha

Story is recognized to be just a story and not reality, the glue that holds the story in focus all the time suddenly starts dissolving. The story comes with emotions that you feel and resist. The story is a chain of thoughts about the “me” who is suffering. But let me ask you this: where is that “me” who claims to be the owner of feelings?

Yeah, now we are nailing down the good points again ;)

Damn stories…I see I will start to love them…haha… as entertainment…
All said,

Stories + self = life strangle
Stories +/- never was self/no self = entertainment :)

They are just stories…all kinds of stories…my here, yours there, my wife’s, friends, parents…stories going on…we are stories stuffed bags that are carried on and on…



I have this feeling when you say all stories must be questioned…like chopping wood for heating is a good story. But all that baggage it seems are all conditioned stories, waste…that keeps you in cramp…for decades…I guess really most of the stories need to be released. Huh, how much of an illusion. Nothing real.

If I just do the cut like I say I don’t believe any of my stories any more, and then when they pop up I remember this point above we discus, do I need to look at each one of them? As I see they are all bolocks. Or just switch to try and see them as the real story and rest is just something that needs to/will dissolve by looking eventualy. So each story can be looked at again and said it was just a happening happened and false you/self-made the whole illusory build up around it. Result is your drama/suffering/tensions… So you can constantly catch yourself-your thoughts and look at them to see what they are up to. And if you notice and cut the bullshit on time you will do a great favor to this life that is going on.

I am looking for a shortcut cut how to cut everything (all my stories) with one single cut or is that a bargain.
So all things in life happened and are true, but stories around happenings are conditioned interpretations of states I was in.
But I know I am not doing any of it...but still glad to get in touch with these points.

Let all the stuff that no longer serves get deconstructed, uncreated, released, dissolved, melted away, and gone. Who needs those patterns, right? So be it.
Basically, any unpleasant emotion or resistance is a sure sign for a story that need investigation

I will just observe now everything from a new point of view, I already do it, I see that I shouldn’t be carried away with other people's stories/reactions…I need to keep these points in focus and see where it will lead…any way I repeat : who is doing IT? :)

Good…

As I see for now it goes in an interesting way…

Jay,

Indi



PS: I was on Vedic wedding yesterday and as my path switched a bit from others I had plenty of interactions and pleasure to observe in the above approach/way…and at the same time this here allowed just to be more what it is. Less stories about how I should be, what others might think…ect. Just stories, most self-involved, but with a slight difference noticing now that for myself… I make stories too, at least see/make them what they are :) and wrong ones which are also dissolving or not even become expressed, they stop before become talking…interesting happening…suddenly… let see how this will stick with me :)

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi
I can feel a shift happening here… :))

How is Rali experienced?

As interesting feedback feeding me with stuff. Happening is dictating to her to deliver/interact :)
Hehe if I could put it in the words, so I don’t trigger questioning on it :)
Interaction of two from the same source triggers it for both of us :)
Like ‘someone’ is playing with two puppets and they have this interesting debate :)

You can say it even more precisely “Rali” in DE is just thinking and seeing (e.g. colours labelled “letters”), there is nothing else in DE. The idea of others is dependent origination in action – if I exist then there must be others, right?

If I just do the cut like I say I don’t believe any of my stories any more, and then when they pop up I remember this point above we discus, do I need to look at each one of them? As I see they are all bolocks. Or just switch to try and see them as the real story and rest is just something that needs to/will dissolve by looking eventualy. So each story can be looked at again and said it was just a happening happened and false you/self-made the whole illusory build up around it. Result is your drama/suffering/tensions… So you can constantly catch yourself-your thoughts and look at them to see what they are up to. And if you notice and cut the bullshit on time you will do a great favor to this life that is going on.

Well, you can dismiss all stories as just BS but that is just generalising, another idea, and in a way bypassing. Start with “problematic” stories. If resistance, fear, or suffering in any form or shape appears that is a good sign for a story that needs investigating. Little by little the grip of stories will start to loosen. That process could take a day, a month, a year or a lifetime. It doesn’t really matter when it will end – it is happening on its own with an effortless effort. There is also no one to benefit of it, right?

So let's review again where we are at with the following questions.
So nothing changed, but everything looks different, does that make sense in your experience?
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi
Are we still doing this? Is there still anything that you want to look together? Please answer the questions in the previous reply so I can get an idea...

I hope all is good on your side :)
Love
Rali

[Indivindi]

Hi Rali…

Keep on Shifting ;)

“Rali” in DE is just thinking and seeing (e.g. colors labeled “letters”), there is nothing else in DE. The idea of others is dependent origination in action – if I exist then there must be others, right?

What others :) ? This is a big colorful stage here that is going on. I don’t see others just DE appearing… And just looking what these here is about to happen and what is happening around in stories & out sorrunding.

No big deal… just observing thoughts and colors, sounds, tastes, sensations, smells… perhaps not in this raw manner, but somehow you see into happenings what they are. And IT makes you laughing...what stories life's are playing/happening...

Observation on every happening and decoding it… and deconstruction of that what is not.
"When I question myself about any simple daily topic I am thinking about, with DE I found how easy it is to get answers and then you stop questioning on that what you think you should do, solve...whatever bothers you." Puff and it's gone...

That process could take a day, a month, a year or a lifetime. It doesn’t really matter when it will end – it is happening on its own with an effortless effort. There is also no one to benefit of it, right?

Now we know… as I see I can just observe what is happening in my daily happenings…and I can look it now with DE…steeled down as there isn’t anything to do about it as it will happen as it will and I am happening as I do… so for me daily small things and thoughts are observed…not really big tensions in my life… but is interesting when catching up myself on thinking/about my thoughts, opinions, judging, … you name it, everything can be observed with DE and stripped of an illusion.

Not that I am doing it with awareness all the time, but as far I see I want…I use tools to calm down expectations…disappointments…see into the reality of the story happening in the moment. Without self, constantly trying to build it up …but just for what it is… and then you say ah…ok…and sort of you calm down…



So let's review again where we are at with the following questions.

So nothing changed, but everything looks different, does that make sense in your experience?

It makes a big sense now, YES. You can look at it, it appears different, but it is the same going. That has been going on ever since, but we are so stuffed with so many illusory layers it’s hard to get out of it and come to these basics. What it just is and what it is with ‘story’ around it. But now you can see that also stories round it as most of happening ain’t wrong stories or manifestations at all. That is what life is…all kinds of IT. And this story looking IT with DE is the core to seeing IT…now you can play what you see, hear, taste…think… it doesn’t matter… it’s just happening… much easier than handling all illusory layers - anartas.

Now you look at what others are actually to anything…what story they are in, what story is behind… and you can’t judge any of it… anything happening is just a creation, phenomena…

What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?

Looking at IT change. When you get 0’s and 1’s code, you can decode this matrix as what IT is. And that what it is isn’t different from what it was yesterday. Only basic DE decoding is happening and placing/seeing flow in that "right" manner. For what IT is. And this is happening to "me" if you want or not… even though we know there is no one here that exists or wants anything. This here is just happening.

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?

Thoughts that are appearing says IT feels like an illusion..now "I" know what is illusion all about…like I would say I feel how it is to be a color (not body, not me, this or that...)…a thin air part of this material construction…Like I am watching movie now of myself :) or a framed picture that has dynamic colors, sounds,…etc…in IT. I am thy within the IT.
Biggest difference is to see life for what IT is different.
Life happens IT's way the same but IT is seen differently.

Is seeking still going on?

No need for seeking. As soon as the self-story is added to what is happening, you’ll start seeking, intense illusory flow occurring… No seeking just decoding/old perception melting is happening on daily happenings.

:) What to seek for? To find what? Nothing to find except to start seeing at what IT is.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

No confusions…just time needs to pass by, that the process happens it's own paste on daily minor thoughts/stories/what pops in and I see it will slowly settle in in every sphere of day. IT will live. Just being IT a part of IT happening.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Independency/separate self/stories = illusion about that what is not.
DE tools show what IT … just is.
NOW go on and just let it happen indi…be the flow until flow becomes what IT is.
YES, it’s nice that this entire journey is happening to “me”.

That “I” got to this point. A journey that is just starting to enroll :)
And we’ll see what will come and look at it…as IT is.
Nothing to expect, just what it is at the moment. Like now typing the letter. Thoughts pasted on the screen with fingers sensation as black colors as letters as a story.

Am I right, Rali, my virtual cloud of colorful letters.
It is really nice you are here and you are happening to “me”.



Who's next ;) or Is there anything more we could set point at?

Thank you, thank you, thank you ... was it a thought nut :)

Respect, indi

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi
It’s so wonderful to read your reply! There is so much clarity there :)
Yes, you are right, nothing changed, but everything looks different. If this make sense, then the Gateless Gate was crashed, the illusion of separate self is seen through. The non-existent line is crossed and there is no way back.
Crashing the Gate may be the end of seeking, but it is not the end of exploration. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life in a new light. It takes time to clean up all the mess, to settle in and adjust. The journey continues, the story carries on, but thoughts have been seen to be thoughts. The story is no longer solid, true, or real.
Now that you have the ultimate tool- looking - keep noticing, keep asking questions. Keep finding silence, being, and presence, and rest in them. All you need is already here. Trust that life is unfolding by itself and that there is no other way than this. You will know when deconstruction is over. Until then there is work to do so question what you know is true and rest in being.
We have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?
Love
a very happy Rali

[Indivindi]

Ehei, ehei…Rali.

Indi happy hippo here :)

I really admire this process and this stage, where you name the conditions, happening, illusion, moment, tension…whatever that bothers me or I wander I just press the button…activating DE processing please and solve the riddle into that what it is and most of time all ballast, pressure just vanish…this state of calmness goes on/comes in, doing simple everyday things and you don’t bother any more how to change or do anything …you are just flowing after deconstruction of something is put in real perspective.

What a great relief at the same time…no worries for whatever life brings or what it is, what other thinks...

And now I can remember my writings about how I don’t like this life and how you don’t have another… But as I look now life is becoming interesting, the simple truth is enough to look at it and just start to love it again. Hehehe… crazy shit this DE … hehehe


And if things don't happen in the old manner as I would like to…no problemo signor… DE just starts to melt down in an illusionary state and you feel ok that it didn’t happen as you thought it would and you just look with open eyes what was that all about and what will happen now… with sort of curiosity…

… I like that this change, reorganization is going on…now I just want it more ;) …


Each day has a new beginning :) nothing is lost, nothing ruined, nothing is pursuing me, you immediately see the fear in its guts and puffff it has become disarmed… hehehe… And I am starting to enjoy whatever goes on with people & relationships too. I am happy that I don't have any feeling that I must be right or to persuade anyone into anything...you just look as it is...you aren't any more of a need...

Seems so good "this" and it’s not even mine...what about to come :)


Of course, at least I could look and answer something on traditional final questions. I would love to answer them.


Big Love to Rali from,

Indi ;)

PS: …two more question pops up…
1. Gras is growing – in DE this would be, colors are resizing phenomena
2. I am losing sight – so colors aren’t focused anymore and if I put glasses on they become clear. How is that happening as glasses influence the seeing – looking?
Glasses object influence object eyes?

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi

And now I can remember my writings about how I don’t like this life and how you don’t have another… But as I look now life is becoming interesting, the simple truth is enough to look at it and just start to love it again. Hehehe… crazy shit this DE … hehehe

And if things don't happen in the old manner as I would like to…no problemo signor… DE just starts to melt down in an illusionary state and you feel ok that it didn’t happen as you thought it would and you just look with open eyes what was that all about and what will happen now… with sort of curiosity…

Wow! Beautiful!

PS: …two more question pops up…
1. Gras is growing – in DE this would be, colors are resizing phenomena
2. I am losing sight – so colors aren’t focused anymore and if I put glasses on they become clear. How is that happening as glasses influence the seeing – looking?
Glasses object influence object eyes?

“The grass is growing” is a perfect example how we take language for granted. In DE there is no such subject “grass” that grows itself – there is just seeing. Once you isolate “something” from the whole (THIS), you can start measuring it, following it in “time” etc. – a.k.a creating a big story on this subject. BUT…You can’t isolate anything outside of the story, so there is no “grass” outhere in DE, and it’s definitely not growing, there are not even different colours (i.e. phenomena) – there is just seeing and thinking about that seeing – e.g. how it has changed from “yesterday” or “a minute ago” and so on. But where or when exactly is “yesterday” if all you have is right now right here (remember the time exercise)? THIS is right NOW, including the story of how yesterday “the phenomena” was different (e.g. “size”). Even "colors are resizing phenomena" is still a story, layered on top what IS, just THIS.
Similarly, with “losing sight”. Is seeing really disappearing? Even with “eyes closed”, there is still seeing. There is a story about how seeing is worsening and “glasses” (what is an "object" in DE?) improve seeing. Can seeing be better or worse or is it just seeing no matter “what is seen”? What estimates how seeing is and takes actions? Also, is seeing separate from thinking, or hearing,… without the thought content? Even that you can’t isolate in DE, it is just THIS. These are questions that we’ve been dealing with in this inquiry
However, do you remember, the analogy with the icons on your desktop, how they help make sense of 0’s and 1’s, but there aren’t actual mail boxes, or dust bins…(i.e. glasses)? In that context, if there is an “action” “you” can take when a “problem” comes up (e.g. put on glasses, when you can’t see details, or take a painkiller for a headache), then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release. It’s not like the “you” died and now “things” are done differently. “You” never ever existed. Just the story changes a bit with less drama and fuss and with more acceptance of what IS. Does that answer your questions?

Of course, at least I could look and answer something on traditional final questions. I would love to answer them.

I’ll give them to you next time, when the questions above are answered.
I just want to make clear that even after the inquiry (you crossing the gateless gate) you can still continue to write on this thread or contact me personally if a “problem” presents :)
Love
Rali

[Indivindi]

Hi Rali

But where or when exactly is “yesterday” if all you have is right now right here (remember the time exercise)?

Yes, yes I got it it’s now, which actually can’t be put in any frame as it is continuous flow (“now it’s ticking, can’t be catch and described else as past/story”) and words always just make it stories, which can be explain as past, which is not.
Still a story, layered on top what IS, just THIS, NOW.

Is seeing really disappearing?

THIS what it is as phenomena to name it somehow to have this conversation just IS.
So seeing doesn't matter at all as phenomena goes on.
Whatever is happening :)

Can seeing be better or worse or is it just seeing no matter “what is seen”?

Everything is just what it IS. Phenomena is happening this or that way. When self is entering then this is happening to me…a story about it. Whether we know or not that there is non-self. And phenomena is happening anyway.

What estimates how seeing is and takes actions?

Interpretation, which is thought flow structure appearing…

Also, is seeing separate from thinking, or hearing,… without the thought content?

No all that goes hand in hand. At the same NOW.

If there is an “action” “you” can take when a “problem” comes up (e.g. put on glasses, when you can’t see details, or take a painkiller for a headache), then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release. It’s not like the “you” died and now “things” are done differently. “You” never ever existed. Just the story changes a bit with less drama and fuss and with more acceptance of what IS. Does that answer your questions?

Yes we cleared it out.

Since last week, somehow I will use the word “I feel” just being a part of IT. Not as a particle but wholenessness.
“Phenomenal sphere.”
Like connected with everything that IS.
Just looking at IT what it IS.

OK I will continue to write on this thread or contact you personally if a “problem” pops up. Where do I contact you…

Hear from you, cheers
indi

[poppyseed]

Hi Indi

OK I will continue to write on this thread or contact you personally if a “problem” pops up. Where do I contact you…

I will give them to you...
Now... Here are the final questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali