Re: Sharing
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:17 am
Ps.: Everywhere where I write IT, it could be "me" and vice versa.
Resistance is ignorance. I woke up with this message...
Resistance is ignorance. I woke up with this message...
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=9441
Yes, well spotted.A grasping which has no root and no direction, like thoughts, emotions. A bit of fear of loosing control, of dying.What exactly did you find?
Yes!The me is an idea. It’s like a dream, which is not aware, that it is only a dream, And it lives in a dream, and it is afraid of waking up, since it knows, that that would mean, that is going to be inexistent in that very moment. It can keep up it’s existence through separation.
Are you absolutely 100% sure that the insights are still experienced by a "self", or a "me"?The insights can be delightful, but it is still experienced by a „self”. It happens with „me”. This perspective comes after the insight, during it is not there. But somehow it reboots itself again and again. Every morning it is there. It looses it’s energy, when there is exhaustion in the body. It can’t reboot so easily, and it looses the control more frequently. I have more insights when the body is tired. And after a good sleep it boots again with great force. That’s why waking up is always followed by contraction. Thoughts rush, a to-do list rolls out.
Language can be really confusing, and can tie us up in knots trying to describe "What's Happening".Ps.: Everywhere where I write IT, it could be "me" and vice versa.
That's a great message. What could you be resisting that you are ignorant about?Resistance is ignorance. I woke up with this message...
Yes, I see the labeling.Let's look closer into this label "grasping", where is it pointing? I can tell you there's only one place to look and that is into the sensations of the body. Any self-referring label is pointing towards sensations. We feel sensations, but we also say we feel a description of a sensation such as sad, angry, fearful etc. Can you discern the difference? Feeling as a descriptive label is not DE, and emotions are descriptive labels, they are not DE. Can you see this?
Contraction in the heart, pulse goes up, breath becomes faster, more shallow. It is a bit like suffocation.So, looking into "grasping":
What sensations are being felt that the mind gives the label of "grasping?"
It’s existential fear. Related to the future. That things won’t be the way the I wants to. A disbelief, that what will be, will be ok, and can be accepted.What thought-train arises from this sensation/label "grasping"?
It’s a nice metaphor for the control freak nature of the I.If you look into "grasping" closely, can you see that the label FOLLOWS from, is ABOUT the Sensations?
Openness, open windows, flying, fresh air...these come to mind...What thoughts trains are arising?
Relaxation.What are they pointing to in the body?
Freedom, lightness, the calmness everything has a sence…Labels about sensations
Calmness, warmth, relaxed muscles. Deep breath.Where in the body are the sensations?
You've got it exactly right. It can be like a roller-coaster, and life will always present the unexpected. The thing is that now you see through the illusion there is less and less identification with what's happening. Let the 're-programming' continue!Maybe there will be a time, when there is more balance in this life, and the quantity of thoughts and the amplitude of feelings, and the general state, mood etc. won’t be so dependent on the things I do, say listen to. But as it is now, is just fine. What is important, that there is no identification with all this. And I’m just a deep breath away from this shelter (off stage), where the mind calms, where I can jump out for a moment from the struggles of the separated self, and take a bath in the flowing river of life, and let it be as it is, as it will be.
When these sensations arise again, can you BE with those sensations in your body? Can you hold the space with CURIOSITY for these movements of energy to work their way through without wishing that they leave? Watch how the sensations are ever changing.What sensations are being felt that the mind gives the label of "grasping?"
Contraction in the heart, pulse goes up, breath becomes faster, more shallow. It is a bit like suffocation.
Thoughts arising from the sensations.What thought-train arises from this sensation/label "grasping"?
It’s existential fear. Related to the future. That things won’t be the way the I wants to. A disbelief, that what will be, will be ok, and can be accepted.
Yes, I think you are :)I think I’m exactly in this state described in Rumis poem, and what you call „exploration into the selfing mechanism”.
Please let me know what is arising as the above is contemplated?
Look carefully here on two counts:I see now, how just one thought, one little „this shouldn’t be here, instead this should be...”, can turn life from heaven to hell, and this goes for every second of life. Since, I see this, and the letting go happened, it’s much easier. Everything is welcomed, I don’t care any more... your will be done...
To whom are you referring here?"your will be done"
Beautiful!What thoughts trains are arising?
Openness, open windows, flying, fresh air...these come to mind...
What are they pointing to in the body?
Relaxation.
Labels about sensations
Freedom, lightness, the calmness everything has a sence…
Where in the body are the sensations?
Calmness, warmth, relaxed muscles. Deep breath.
Great! Well spotted!There is just one sentence, which causes contraction:
Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
This isn’t sent from anywhere, „anybody” to another „anybody”. This sentence contains duality, hence it is not true.
Haha, take it easy :) It’s just a figure of speech. I could write, whatever happens, that is welcome, that is necessary.To whom are you referring here?
I am splitting hairs a bit here, because I think I understand what you are saying, but, for clarity's sake:
Can any separate entity with a will be found in DE?
What is this "will" to which you refer?
The FINAL questions...Oh, that sounds like from St. Peter... :)Do you think that you are now ready to receive the final questions?
No connection.(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labeled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
No.(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
It’s the same.(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
This is just like the apple exercise. If I unlabel it completely, there is just love and curiosity.(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colors and shapes?
Only thoughts, memory.(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any 'knowing' that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
Only the movie haha... And the 2 little hand stuff are also part of it.(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
These are all labels. Actually it would be hard to describe, what it is like....what sensations there are...rubbing, pressure etc. But these are somehow also just labels and therefore they are limiting the experience.(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
Same. Labels. I never understood the Heart sutra, when I was chanting it everyday. Now it’s completely logoical:(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
The FINAL questions...Oh, that sounds like from St. Peter... :)
I would love to chat and share, and there is a bit of sadness, that this ends here probably...
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?(8) Start to walk slowly.
It is great that you are now understanding the Heart Sutra. For the moment it seems that you have an intellectual grasp of it, keep working with the senses until this understanding is deepened into an experiential knowing. Intellectual insight always needs to be brought down into the body as a lived experience.Same. Labels. I never understood the Heart sutra, when I was chanting it everyday. Now it’s completely logoical:
Form is emptiness, emptiness is form, so it is with feeling, conception, volition, and consciousness.” These five skandhas make up your body and mind.
Yes, beautiful !That's why there is this immense freshness and couriosity, when you see all there is again, as it is.
From the DE perspective, there is only THIS. All the rest, what you listed, body, walking, room etc. are labels/frames, which are based on memory, thoughts. To have this labels, is necessary to coordinate our lifes in this dimension, but it is good to see, that these are also fetters, until you see them. After this seeing happend, there is no more unseeing it. From that moment on, both dimensions exist.7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
I don’t think, there is a intellectual grasp possible on this.It is great that you are now understanding the Heart Sutra. For the moment it seems that you have an intellectual grasp of it, keep working with the senses until this understanding is deepened into an experiential knowing. Intellectual insight always needs to be brought down into the body as a lived experience.
Gimme those questions :)Are you ready for those questions??
No. There is just observing of sensations, of the coming and going of thoughts and emotions attached to them, the labeling process, the feelings of/in the body. Observing and letting everything come through. The feeling, that this is happening to somebody, someone is an added factor, which has it’s role (see below), but it limits everything.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
Why does this happen around the 2-3 years of life?2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The dialog and the DE method helped me first of all, to calm the f..down and accept everything that comes and goes. To understand what is happening. To accept the doubts, the ups and downs, the flip-flopping...ALL OF IT.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Some weeks ago there was a lot of frustration because of this flip-flopping. I see, but than I can unsee it, not completely but the states during the day, or during the week were very different. Like an in between state of an old and a new operating system. I talked about this to my guides and sat with it. The consumption of tons of books, videos and podcasts can be very helpful, but can build up an expectation, how this whole process (?) should look like. After some time, days, hours of less thoughts, of less anxiety, of more equanimity, there was an expectation, that this should stay. Why is it changing back, why is there again distress...??? And then the inner war has begun: To whom is this happening, there is nobody there! This is BS, you are faking it! This whole non-duality is a scam, it’s a sect, everybody is brainwashed! Go back to normality, before it gets late and you become mad...etc.etc...4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I don’t see any decision making anymore. It is as everything falls to it’s place.5) Describe decision and give examples from experience.
Intention is a bit abstract. There is intention arising. Like there is good intention towards the creatures around me. It is a good feeling to care. So intentions arises, but it’s not „mine”.Describe intention and give examples from experience.
This dissolved also during this period. Free will is an illusion of the „self” that it has control over life. But as it is seen now, there is no decision maker, no one, who has a will. It is flowing, happening and there is much curiosity in observing this. Anything can and will happen.Describe free will and give examples from experience.
Choice is just happening. To choose the type of paving for the house is happening. There is an observation of the „choosing”.Describe choice and give examples from experience.
Control is not trusting in what IS. It’s wanting else, what already is. It’s an illusion of safety, that „we” are in control, we decide etc. But in reality we are not in control of the slightest, smallest things, like thoughts, feelings, body functions, sickness etc. It is humbling to see this and accept it. Humbling but also freeing.Describe control and give examples from experience.
From the perspective I answered all the other questions, I’m not responsible of anything, since there is no „I” who could be responsible. How can the little wheel be responsible in a watch, or a wave in the ocean? Yeah, I know, this gets very corny, but hey this is how it feels now. Of course I wouldn’t tell this anybody, cause it’s quite a hot topic and impossible to grasp...haha...7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.
I just want to say thank you for creating this possibility. It is a great thing that there is somebody on the road, who guides you, corrects your little flaws, it makes things much more easier and faster (somehow this is also an illusion, illusion of time in this case, but it feels like it).8) Anything to add?