fetter 1

[indranet]

linda,

There is no separate self hidden in a little microchip that is noticing; likewise there is no separate self tucked away that is seeing. A separate self seems to be another thought --completely without any substanciality. (Not sure if that is a word).

How do you feel about this?

[Linda61]

Hi J.P,

When I typed those words, it was freeing; and seemed easy and obvious.

But, today I woke up with a tight chest and I was restless all night. I would label it fear; but that may not be helpful. Maybe it's like when you are in line to ride a roller coaster at the amusement park and you don't know what's coming.

What is the best way to look at this?

Regards,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

What is the best way to look at this?

You have to be ruthlessly honest and dive deep.


Is it excitement or fear?


J.P

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.,

Everything is very calm right now--with the sensations.

But reflecting on this morning/last night...

Diving deep---being honest....

It is fear.

I am not sure what to 'do' except feel it when it arises; this is what I generally do with emotions (I have had good training with a variety of non-dual teachers for the past 2 years and worked through a lot of 'shadow stuff'.')

I feel the emotion without a story. Place attention in the body (not the mind). The strong sensations in the body dissapate.

But, is this the best way to investigate this? Am I by-passing here? Should I be looking at beliefs-- or is there another way to approach this?

I appreciate your guidance with next steps.
Linda

[indranet]

linda,


Most people get some sort of fear when they start to see that the self does not exist.



Maybe you should make a list of things about your life that could be threatened by this discovery.

I would do this without editing yourself, just put down whatever comes into your head.

J.P

[Linda61]

HI J.P.

Sorry for the slow reply---I wanted to sit down (without distractions) and just roll with whatever comes up--

Maybe you should make a list of things about your life that could be threatened by this discovery.

Ok, unedited---here goes:

my marriage could fall apart
my children would not seem special
compassion for others would be less

ok, those came off the keyboard without a editing and bit of a 'clench' in the chest....

These thoughts don't really seem true--- they are all thoughts and stories--but I am sending them anyway, maybe there is a hidden something that I need help detecting.

Thank you again for your patience.
Warmly,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

my marriage could fall apart
my children would not seem special
compassion for others would be less

ok, that's interesting. Firstly I can reassure you that none of those idea have any basis in reality.

But to me they indicate that you might have certain ideas about what "liberation" looks like.
I'm guessing that there is some idea of detachment from the world, maybe living in some state above normal human emotions. These are the most common ideas and they do have a certain attraction, freedom from suffering etc.

Do any of these ideas sound familiar?


J.P

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.


Thank you for reminder that those beliefs don't have any basis in reality. Of course. Just reading that feels good.

But to me they indicate that you might have certain ideas about what "liberation" looks like

.

Maybe I do have these ideas that have never surfaced before-around detachment from life!

And of course these ideas are thoughts and we have worked with thoughts..... thoughts are random. That is very obvious. Is there a way to work with pesky beliefs?

It seems a bit like I am going backwards and not making it through the gate, so to speak. Like one foot in, and then it gets pulled back out.

Warmly,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

Is there a way to work with pesky beliefs?

Is there a difference between thought and belief?


Is there a difference between "pesky" beliefs and beliefs we cherish?

It seems a bit like I am going backwards and not making it through the gate.

The Gate is another belief. Just be interested in finding what's true.

J.P

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.,

Is there a difference between thought and belief?

No, clearly there are the same. Maybe a belief is a repetitive thought; or one that continues to get attention. I am not completely sure about that. But, thoughts or repetitive thoughts, or thoughts that get attention are all the same.

It's just a lot a definitions. So where to go with that? Is it about ignoring thoughts or letting them come and go without attachments or identification?

Just because I have a thought doesn't mean there is a separate I/person, it's just a thought. It seems like this is the bottom line.

Is there a difference between "pesky" beliefs and beliefs we cherish?

All beliefs are thoughts, 'pesky and cherished' are just labels and have no meaning. I use these words, but they feel empty now.
It seems like labeling creates more stories; which are just more thoughts.
It feels satisfying to recognize that thoughts don't need to attach to anything; they can float free.
I don't attach to many stories anymore (for the past year or so) and life has a general sweetness to it.

The Gate is another belief. Just be interested in finding what's true.

When I feel into what's true there are no ahas or fireworks. It's empty, but it doesn't feel special. It seems like I hear stories about big awakening events and that doesn't seem to be my experience.
It's just quiet.
I have recently heard from Vince's you tubes that sometimes there isn't a GIANT event.

It seems like this email is all over the place; hope you can make sense of it.
Warmly,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

So where to go with that? Is it about ignoring thoughts or letting them come and go without attachments or identification?

It looks like you answered your own question.

It feels satisfying to recognize that thoughts don't need to attach to anything; they can float free.

When I feel into what's true there are no ahas or fireworks. It's empty, but it doesn't feel special. It seems like I hear stories about big awakening events and that doesn't seem to be my experience.
It's just quiet.

Does that quiet have a quality or emotional resonance?

[Linda61]

Hi J.P,

Does that quiet have a quality or emotional resonance?

The quiet has no quality that sems describable; the word empty, silent might be used.
Emotional resonance doesn't even seem relevant.

Where to go from here?
Thank you again for your patience,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

sometimes there isn't a GIANT event.

Everyone is different. Sometimes there is no distinct event, just a slow dawning of clarity and understanding.


You have to keep looking, peel away the layer of thought and belief from your experience.

See how the "I' thought inserts itself into your life. Try catching the "I" , remove it and see what"s left.

I'm on the phone, I need to go shopping, I'm hungry, I'm angry......... you get the idea.

[Linda61]

Hi J.P,

Reflecting today......

Everyone is different. Sometimes there is no distinct event, just a slow dawning of clarity and understanding.

There is a sense of relief and a little smile reading this. It does feel like clarity creeping in slowly.

More noticing without the habit of labeling everything and more curiosity.

I am continuing with the suggested practice of :
breathing (versus of I am breathing)
Hearing (versus of I am hearing)
.....
This is interesting when the 'I' is removed there is stillness. Movement in the stillness with no manager.
And there is no sense of time.

There doesn't seem to be a lot more to say about it right now.
Thank you again,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

Movement in the stillness with no manager. And there is no sense of time.

This sounds good, keep up your current investigation.

Just keep me appraised.

J.P