I still believe in Santa Claus

[Thailand]

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Yes. If I am prompted internally or externally to think of a particular kind of thought it will appear.

Is that something "you" can do? Or it will just happen or not?

I understand what you're saying. If I truly get that there is no self, then no, that is not something "I" can do. It will just happen.

It feels very strongly like there's something in charge of choosing thoughts but when examined closely, that's not the case.

Is that something "you" can do? Or it will just happen or not?

I mean can control what you actually WANT to do?

No. Wants just arise. Actions just arise.

If I ask do you want now a beer or wine or a glass of water, it is obvious that whatever genuine answer comes up just comes up without a you controlling it right? And if doubt and mental gymnastics come up, that also just happens, right?

Yes. All of these things just come up/happen/arise.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
No, not with absolute certainty. But it does seem that I am able to temporarily prevent a thought from appearing by conjuring up other thoughts.

Again, if the idea to focus elsewhere comes up, where does it come from? From a separate self? Or just out of nowhere?

Out of nowhere.

And conventionally speaking we can say from prior conditioning, in the infinite interdependent conditioning chains of life...

Then I have a question... if this is the case then couldn't we say yes, there's no self, but there is some sort of structure in place that thoughts flow through? Like streams flowing into a river or neural pathways in the brain. There is no self but there is a sort of shape to it all formed by memories/life events/etc.? That shape is unique and what is thought of as "myself."

Look. Everything is without self. Control is without self. Skills are without self. Will is without self. Relationships are without self. Self-experience and thoughts are without self. It is not that they don't exist, conventionally speaking. It is that upon clear looking here and now, it all happens by itself... No real separate self doing anything.

I've been bringing up these ideas throughout the day. My phone app asked me repeatedly, "Is _____ without self?" Meaning... is this thought/belief/feeling/decision/etc. without self? I can't find a self in any of them. Whether they feel strong, weak or indifferent, there is no self in them.

All this seeming conplexity just happens without self. You already can see this. Let go of expectations how it supposed to feel, or that it is some mysterious insight outside what is already clear when you look.

There is an awareness arising that the last holdouts of belief in a separate self/thoughts/beliefs/etc., are being seen through. Or maybe a better way of putting it is there is nothing to be seen through, nothing to be destroyed.

There are things that are appearing throughout the day (conversations, things online, situations at work) that seem to be synchronistically testing where the "I" is in various events.

There are feelings of excitement and fear arising. I'm doing my best to take your advice and let go of expectations.

[Elad]

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Yes. If I am prompted internally or externally to think of a particular kind of thought it will appear.

Is that something "you" can do? Or it will just happen or not?

I understand what you're saying. If I truly get that there is no self, then no, that is not something "I" can do. It will just happen.

Woops, do you see what you are doing here? Going to logic and intellectual understanding, "if, then". That is not the point. The point is to look: If anything is taken to be something "you" can do, look how it actually happens in real time. See that it just happens, or not, including what we conventionally call "my will", "my focus of attention", "my strategy and decision" etc.

It feels very strongly like there's something in charge of choosing thoughts but when examined closely, that's not the case.

This "feels strangely" is just the belief. Same way that watching a movie it feels strangely like things are happening in the movie, rather then just images. We are not looking to be in a state where we cannot watch the movie of "my life", we just see through the illusion that it is literal reality. It is already happening for "you". Main thing now is to let it sink in and drop expectations it should be more grand or special. In other words turn the interest from "what is wanted and imagined in the story of self" to "what is the simple truth that is clearly seen, without regards to how it feels".

Is that something "you" can do? Or it will just happen or not?

I mean can control what you actually WANT to do?

No. Wants just arise. Actions just arise.

Right

If I ask do you want now a beer or wine or a glass of water, it is obvious that whatever genuine answer comes up just comes up without a you controlling it right? And if doubt and mental gymnastics come up, that also just happens, right?

Yes. All of these things just come up/happen/arise.

Exactly

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
No, not with absolute certainty. But it does seem that I am able to temporarily prevent a thought from appearing by conjuring up other thoughts.

Again, if the idea to focus elsewhere comes up, where does it come from? From a separate self? Or just out of nowhere?

Out of nowhere.

Exactly, conventionally speaking strategies for thought control exist, concentration can be developed, understanding of how thoughts and attention work exist (for example that if we want to not think about something, we should not focus on not thinking about it, but bring all attention to think about something else). What doesn't exist is any real separate self doing any of it.

And conventionally speaking we can say from prior conditioning, in the infinite interdependent conditioning chains of life...

Then I have a question... if this is the case then couldn't we say yes, there's no self, but there is some sort of structure in place that thoughts flow through? Like streams flowing into a river or neural pathways in the brain. There is no self but there is a sort of shape to it all formed by memories/life events/etc.? That shape is unique and what is thought of as "myself."

Just like every flower is unique without a separate self, you and every other living being is unique without a separate self. As Thich Nhat Hanh said "the flower is full with everything, the whole cosmos, except a separate self". And yes, of course there is conventionally speaking the person, the character, personality, talents and weaknesses, etc. Again, we don't deny any of that, just see clearly that none of it is a self standing apart from the whole and acting upon it.

Look. Everything is without self. Control is without self. Skills are without self. Will is without self. Relationships are without self. Self-experience and thoughts are without self. It is not that they don't exist, conventionally speaking. It is that upon clear looking here and now, it all happens by itself... No real separate self doing anything.

I've been bringing up these ideas throughout the day. My phone app asked me repeatedly, "Is _____ without self?" Meaning... is this thought/belief/feeling/decision/etc. without self? I can't find a self in any of them. Whether they feel strong, weak or indifferent, there is no self in them.

Great practice. Just make sure you don't relate with it as ideas. Rather, it is all about invitations to look at the most trivial direct reality of what are thoughts actually doing, what is body actually doing, how is breath actually moving, etc. and seeing the "not mine, not self" nature of all of it in direct experience.

All this seeming conplexity just happens without self. You already can see this. Let go of expectations how it supposed to feel, or that it is some mysterious insight outside what is already clear when you look.

There is an awareness arising that the last holdouts of belief in a separate self/thoughts/beliefs/etc., are being seen through. Or maybe a better way of putting it is there is nothing to be seen through, nothing to be destroyed.

There are things that are appearing throughout the day (conversations, things online, situations at work) that seem to be synchronistically testing where the "I" is in various events.

There are feelings of excitement and fear arising. I'm doing my best to take your advice and let go of expectations.

Great! Being more interested in just what IS, then in the fantasies of gains and attainments, is one of the keys in this process.

[Elad]

Here is another exercise for you:

Word “I”

Let’s look at thought and the content of thought a little more:

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?
Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”
Is the thought, "I exist" you?
Is the thought "I" you?
Are the sensations, images or reactions triggered by the word "I" or "I exist" you?
Does this separate you exist anywhere outside of thought?

[Thailand]

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?

No

Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?

No

Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”

No

Is the thought, "I exist" you?

No

Is the thought "I" you?

No

Are the sensations, images or reactions triggered by the word "I" or "I exist" you?

No

Does this separate you exist anywhere outside of thought?

No

"I" LOOK. "I" SEE/SENSE an emptiness. There is a non-judging awareness or consciousness that all the sights/sounds/sensations/thoughts arise in. There is awareness that the "I" exists only in thought. There is a sense of "So what?" "That experience is already there but life is no different because of it." "Surrender." "Surrender the idea of something to surrender." "There's nothing to be attained." "Just be." Impatience, confusion, hope, exhaustion, etc. arise in consciousness.

And life goes on.

[Thailand]

I just heard Ilona say something that's blowing my mind.

Q: I've been doing self inquiry. Questions like "Who am I?" When I ask, there's no answer. It's just silent.

A: Hold on, stop. When you ask, there is the answer.

Q: But there's no verbal answer. It's just silent.

A: Yes. THAT IS THE ANSWER.


Wow. I've been doing self inquiry for a while now. I've known that it's like sitting with a zen koan, I'm not expecting a logical answer in words. So I wasn't expecting that but I was expecting... I don't know what. Some sort of profound wordless wisdom transmitted to "me" from the emptiness. It never fully occurred to me that the silence IS the answer. Maybe the answer to all my questions has been there the whole time. Who/what am I? What is consciousness? What is Pure Being? Maybe they all have the same answer. I'm going to sit with this for a while.

[Elad]

All this is good! Stay with it, let me know what happens :)

[Thailand]

Sitting with what Ilona said... The silence IS the answer to your inquiry question.

The way I've been approaching inquiry is like this... I've been like a patient and silent cat staring at a mouse hole in the wall. Believing that the minute the mouse sticks its head out of the hole, I can pounce on it. A state of alert readiness. I've been asking my inquiry questions and waiting, waiting, waiting for the silence to "speak" to me. And clearly in certain ways it has. I've gained clarity on certain things and there are situations that seem to appear in my life because I've been sitting with a particular inquiry question.

However, as Ilona said... the silence IS the answer. The silence is giving me the answer NOW, the moment I pose the question. It is nothing other than what is appearing right here, right now in the silence. It's not something that has to ever be waited for.

Maybe no question is even required. I just need to LOOK, SEE, HEAR what's here right now. Like listening with genuine curiosity to a friend who's in the middle of speaking. Engage with what's happening right now, instead of waiting for the heavens to part and the voice of God to come booming in my ear.

I'm excited to do more inquiry with this new shift in perspective. If nothing else, it seems like a much more relaxed way of doing it.

I'm interested to hear what you think of this, Elad.

[Thailand]

My reply to your PM questions:

There is no separate self, no chooser, no controller, never has been, never will be.
Is that clear?

Yes

If not, what is not clear?
If it is, how is it to acknowledge the alive realization?

What is sensed when I LOOK: There is a laugh in my chest that wants to escape but can't yet. There's a feeling that says "Oh. Duh. If it didn't exist to begin with then why is there worry?" There is a sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop, but not fear, just hopeful expectation. Remembering to drop expectations. An impatient "Now what?" feeling

There is no separate self, no chooser, no controller, never has been, never will be. I can acknowledge this now and recognize the truth of it.

There is no self but there is a SENSE of self. The sense of self arises and fades away like any other thought, belief or sensation. Clinging to the idea of separate self is what causes suffering. There is someone to be hurt, that needs to be defended, etc. Hurt happens, defensive feelings happen, but they are things that arise and fade. Not things happening to a supposed separate self.

Right now, there is much less fear arising associated with the idea that there is no separate self. There is a growing realization that it never existed to begin with so how can I fear something going away that CAN'T go away because it's always been a fairy tale. Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy didn't go away, I just see them for what they are... stories that I once believed in. I can look back on my belief in Santa and smile. It's not a source of pain and honestly, it would be a little odd if a belief in Santa was still here. Fierce clinging to an outdated idea despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

An idea coming up is the "Five Stages of Grief," denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. When major shifts in perception have happened in the past, some or all of these feelings seem to arise. Acceptance seems like it's here but hasn't settled in yet.

[Elad]

Sitting with what Ilona said... The silence IS the answer to your inquiry question.

The way I've been approaching inquiry is like this... I've been like a patient and silent cat staring at a mouse hole in the wall. Believing that the minute the mouse sticks its head out of the hole, I can pounce on it. A state of alert readiness. I've been asking my inquiry questions and waiting, waiting, waiting for the silence to "speak" to me. And clearly in certain ways it has. I've gained clarity on certain things and there are situations that seem to appear in my life because I've been sitting with a particular inquiry question.

However, as Ilona said... the silence IS the answer. The silence is giving me the answer NOW, the moment I pose the question. It is nothing other than what is appearing right here, right now in the silence. It's not something that has to ever be waited for.

Maybe no question is even required. I just need to LOOK, SEE, HEAR what's here right now. Like listening with genuine curiosity to a friend who's in the middle of speaking. Engage with what's happening right now, instead of waiting for the heavens to part and the voice of God to come booming in my ear.

I'm excited to do more inquiry with this new shift in perspective. If nothing else, it seems like a much more relaxed way of doing it.

I'm interested to hear what you think of this, Elad.

Beautiful, both sharings here.

The sense of self - what does it consist of, as seen in direct experience?

Is there any real self standing outside of reality controlling it?

Once the seeing dawns it is absolutely the norm for all kinds of conditioning to appear and reappear: expectations, feelings, beliefs, desires and aversions, choices, etc etc. Only now it is more quickly seen that it is all conditioning, appearing and disapearing by itself. Write me soon again how things move!

[Thailand]

The sense of self - what does it consist of, as seen in direct experience?

When strong feelings arise, like jealousy, anger, possessiveness, pride, etc., they are usually accompanied by a feeling of identification/attachment. "This is mine." "I am angry." "Do you see how smart and talented I am?" The same for thoughts, opinions, beliefs. There are things I take to be "mine" that a strong sense of attachment arises with. Weaker feelings/opinions/beliefs seem to have a weaker sense of attachment.

There is a sense of attachment "my" looks, my age, my speaking abilities, my value to society in various ways. A sense of attachment can arise to anything I have been taught constitutes "me."

The sense of self is thoughts and feelings of attachment or identification with various things. These thoughts and feelings are seeming attachments to a separate self that never actually existed. They are/were seeming attachments to what is now seen as a fairy tale character. These thoughts and feelings are transient, not permanent and have no more reality than a separate self.

When sitting in silence with any of these identifications/attachments and LOOKing at them, they are revealed to be false in a couple ways. They're only "made of" thought, not any sort of absolute, eternal truth. And they are seeming attachments to a false self that never existed to begin with.

On a side note... People who have realized that the separate self is false, I don't see them quit bathing and walking around in a potato sack because "there's no self to take care of." The body and life situation get handled but it happens naturally, not with the belief that a separate self is in control of it all.

Is there any real self standing outside of reality controlling it?

I don't know, is the only answer that can be said at this point. When sitting in silence is happening, it could be said there is a presence there and "I Am" that presence and maybe that's controlling it, but I don't know. Anything that could be spoken or written it seems would be tainted by ideas that have been acquired in years of seeking. The Self (capital S), God, The Absolute, The Tao, or any other name... it is unknown if THAT is standing outside of reality controlling it. Even naming it seems to give it a separate reality. Maybe nothing is in control. Maybe everything is in control. It just becomes more theorizing.

Once the seeing dawns it is absolutely the norm for all kinds of conditioning to appear and reappear: expectations, feelings, beliefs, desires and aversions, choices, etc etc. Only now it is more quickly seen that it is all conditioning, appearing and disapearing by itself. Write me soon again how things move!

Expectation is arising quite a bit. The realization that there is no separate self is present, but "I" don't feel a whole lot different than I did a month ago. When reflecting on the idea that it was a fairy tale character all along, strangely there is a sense of being at peace with it. But I don't feel like there's any sort of shift that's happened. The seeking mechanism still seems to be there, something still wants to watch videos and read books to "figure out what I'm missing." Also, I know I can't go off of other people's experience but when reading about people's awakenings, there is that sense of "everything is the same but completely different." That's not what's in my experience right now.

[Thailand]

You asked, "Is there any real self standing outside of reality controlling it?"

Something about the question has occurred to me. No, there is nothing that could "stand outside of reality." There is no inside and outside of reality, there is only reality. Aha.

I need to LOOK at this.

[Elad]

Hey Pete,

Conditioning of expectations, comparing to others, creating story of how self is across time, trying to figure this out, etc. - all just coming and going by itself right? No self choosing or controlling that happening, right?


Is there any need to or possibility for changing what is?



This settles differently for different people. For some there is one major moment, for others clarity just infuses life more and more and more, gradually, until it would seem absurd to separate it from anything.

You asked, "Is there any real self standing outside of reality controlling it?"

Something about the question has occurred to me. No, there is nothing that could "stand outside of reality." There is no inside and outside of reality, there is only reality. Aha.

I need to LOOK at this.

Good.

[Thailand]

Hi Elad,

I think I already know the answer to this but... I was told not to mix other philosophies, teachers, etc. while we're doing this work. Here in Thailand there are 10 day vipassana retreats at the monasteries. I've been planning on doing one at the beginning of November. They do them every month so it's not a big deal if I miss it this time. Is going to this ok or not something you would recommend?

[Elad]

I think I already know the answer to this but... I was told not to mix other philosophies, teachers, etc. while we're doing this work.

Is this refering to the questions I asked you?

Assuming so, yes, it is never about what you "know", certainly not from teachers and philosophies. It is always only about what you directly see. What you write is always secondary to what you discover while looking and even what you discover while writing.

Here in Thailand there are 10 day vipassana retreats at the monasteries. I've been planning on doing one at the beginning of November. They do them every month so it's not a big deal if I miss it this time. Is going to this ok or not something you would recommend?

Vipassana practice is fully compatible with what we do here, except stories about how long time things take etc. But the practice itself is aligned. If you feel called to go, do so. We can talk before about how to do it, from whereever you are when the time comes.

Is it Wat Suan Mokkh? I was there a few times, years ago. Beautiful place. But there are several forest tradition monasteries in Thailand, right?

[Thailand]

Vipassana practice is fully compatible with what we do here, except stories about how long time things take etc. But the practice itself is aligned. If you feel called to go, do so. We can talk before about how to do it, from whereever you are when the time comes.

Is it Wat Suan Mokkh? I was there a few times, years ago. Beautiful place. But there are several forest tradition monasteries in Thailand, right?

Oh that's great! Yes, it's Wat Suan Mokh. That's so cool you've been there. Yes, there are many forest tradition monasteries here and I've wanted to do a retreat at one for many years. There's also a lot of Goenka vipassana places in Thailand.

Yes, I would definitely value your advice about it before I go.

I think I already know the answer to this but... I was told not to mix other philosophies, teachers, etc. while we're doing this work.

Is this refering to the questions I asked you?

No. The previous guide I was working with had a guideline that it's best to set aside all other teachings, philosophies, etc. while doing this work. But if you say it's ok I'll go with that.

I will LOOK at the questions in the last post you sent me and reply soon.