Personality, Free Will and the No Self

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Lu,

Thank you. I am often awake for a little while in the middle of the night and since many of my clients are in Europe, I check the forum. Then I go back to sleep

You are perceiving correctly. Good. On that last one I'm not sure

I can't tell whether there was no Sensation or whether you may not be in touch with your body enough to notice it but here is your next pointer

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Stacey,

Thank you for your comments and for answering me in your sleep gap!

Yes I see what you mean. I don't recall using the description 'peaceful' but I used relaxed, which I now see is also an interpretation of the sensation. Light / open / expansive would have better described the sensation I was experiencing.

I think I am very in touch with my body and use the sensations in my body for affirmative / negative sensations often (or truth/lie) - for example, I test my food or supplements by holding them and feel into my body to feel if it is heavy or light (I also get a lifting sensation) and this tells me whether something is good for me or not good for me / if my body needs it or doesn't need it.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

Telling my father a lie about not making a family reunion because I don't want to attend but I want to protect his feelings and not get into the whole thing.

What is found?

Whilst typing the message to him I felt my solar plexus / stomach area contract / tighten. Acknowledging this sensation allows it to then lighten and expand again.

Do you see that?

Yes, I completely see this / experience this and this is something I practise often and also teach my Mindfulness students. But thank you for giving clarity around an interpretation of a sensation vs direct experience of the sensation, this was helpful.

[LisaFellowes]

Dear Stacy,

Many apologies - I just realised that I have been spelling your name incorrectly and using the English spelling. I'm so sorry, it wasn't intentional.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you. Yes, there is no "e" in my name, but I was ignoring it. :)

Yes, if you do muscle testing you are aware of the "body yes" and "body no" as some people call it.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

If you saw "The Matrix," this is like "no spoon."

https://youtu.be/Ph02o6K2aoo?si=7YllbiTmI1Ze-8gD

Also, We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that.

There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule. (Starts in half an hour from now.)

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

I forgot about Springing Forward. I believe Vince's meeting is in an hour from now.

It often goes for 3 hours. I only stay for 1 hour, usually.

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Stacy,

That was fun and I haven't watched The Matrix, so it was also fun watching the clip about 'no spoon'.

To answer your questions;

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Thoughts label objects. They can’t describe them as there is no direct experience of the object. Thought is a concept or projection about the object based on learning, conditioning, or past experience. Thought is not direct experience of an object.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is an object present and thought labels it as an ‘apple’, but there isn’t really an ‘apple’ here. Just an object that can be experienced through seeing, smelling, tasting, touching/sensation.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No, ‘apple’ cannot be found in actual experience. But the object we label as ‘apple’ can be found in actual experience.

However, is an apple actually known?

No, 'apple' cannot be known in direct experience.

I will try and join Vince's online group this evening - thank you so much for alerting me to it.

I hope you have a pleasant afternoon and evening :)

[Anastacia42]

Very good, Lu.

His group tends to go on for 3,hours, so they're probably still there for another hour or so.

Can you see how "self" is also a label just like "apple?"

Can you find a separate "self" anywhere in Direct Experience ?


Loving,
Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Stacy,

I hope you're having a good day :)

I did join Vince's meeting last night for a while, but had to leave as it was getting later here (bedtime!). I will join again next week.

I have been sitting with your questions today. I could answer them intellectually but that's not why I'm here - I'm here to 'see' and feel - directly experience the knowing. So I have answered honestly, but maybe a little rambling, so I hope it makes sense;

Can you see how "self" is also a label just like "apple?”

Yes, I can see that. And I can see how this has been reinforced throughout my life, so I believed that I was a separate ‘self’. I know that my body is functioning without me doing anything – it breathes, pumps the blood, heals wounds, alerts me with a sensation of hunger or thirst and then I have the thought about that sensation of hunger or thirst.

I observe that when, for example, I have an itch on my face, my hand moves to scratch it before I’ve even had the thought about it, and I marvel at that. It is happening / life-ing / human being-ing without ‘me’. So what is the ‘me’ that we refer to?

This is where I become stuck. I see all the above, but as humans we make decisions on a daily basis (something that apples don’t do) – how are those decisions being made? Who is making them? We find some things funny / disgusting that others do not. Individuality is present. I struggle with how to balance this with no ‘self’. I guess I’m still connected to the concept of ego?

Can you find a separate "self" anywhere in Direct Experience ?

I can’t find a separate ‘self’ in Direct Experience. There is seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, sensation and I’m aware that ‘I’m’ not doing any of this – it just happens. Thought then becomes present and brings labels, emotions etc

[Anastacia42]

how are those decisions being made? Who is making them? We find some things funny / disgusting that others do not. Individuality is present. I struggle with how to balance this with no ‘self’. I guess I’m still connected to the concept of ego?

We don't know. And we don't care!

It's a MYSTERY.

Once you experience the shift, all of these useless questions should fall away.

Have you been reading Gateless Gatecrashers? Since people SEE just from reading that.

Try these & be sure to listen to the Introduction.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksba3zhi9uuz ... hsk1a?dl=0

Loving

Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Thank you Stacy.

I spent the day yesterday 'seeing' that there is no separate self in direct experience. I think everyone around me yesterday thought I had lost the plot! I was very quiet and experiencing how life happens within me, how I'm an expression of life with no separate self.

Observing how everything that happens, happens, with no involvement from me. And then noticing how thought labels everything afterwards.

I will listen to the audio files today.

Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

How does it FEEL to see no separate "self? "

Loving

[LisaFellowes]

Hi Stacy,

It must be early hours for you again?!

How does it FEEL to see no separate "self? "

It feels both a relief and also mystifying. It feels like my body has gone 'aaaahhhhh' and dropped down out of the 'fast lane of society' to the slower 'lane of life'. I'm aware that I'm slower, more grounded, more peaceful and 'solid' - does that make any sense? I feel expansive and open. I feel like I don't need to get caught up in anything - thought, drama, other people's dramas. I don't feel floaty, I feel really solid and grounded.

Mystifying that it's so simple and easy and has been here all the time but has been overlooked. It's been staring me in my face the whole time! It's like taking off layers and layers of clothes to be naked and free.

It's really hard to put it into words - our language doesn't seem to have the words for how I feel!

[LisaFellowes]

I feel very emotional at the moment.

And you're right, all those questions I had not only seem to not matter any more, but they've just gone away.

I feel like I have surrendered. I now see the resistance that I had - it was all thought.

When I say it's like taking off layers and layers of clothes to find myself naked and free underneath, I mean that it's been there all along - the naked and free - it's been hidden by layers.

When I started this process I wanted to 'feel' and not just have an intellectual understanding. I'm now seeing and feeling. It's very liberating.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Lu,

That's great. Yes, it's about 5:30 am now.

Yes, seeking falls away in the face of Direct Experience I f no "self."

Let's do a couple more pointers while you settle in . Then you can answer "final" questions.

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time? Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Loving,

[LisaFellowes]

Morning Stacy,

Thank you for this exercise - it's good to put down in words what is felt. I wanted to sit with the questions for a while and really 'feel' it before answering. So here is my answer;

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time? Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

The only moment is now and now is the only moment. There can be nothing more than ‘this’ moment. There is no time attached to this moment, it does not begin and it does not end, it is always this moment, always the ‘now’. There is no actual direct experience of past or future. Now in this moment is all we can experience.


I hope you have a lovely day today :)