Drifting wood

[Anastacia42]

Okay, nearly right,but in som

e places you have labels on the right where there should only be Direct Experience.

Please correct these to show you understand we stand. Only the 5 Senses or Thought Arising are DE.

Seeing a table, with a paper glass and a cup of coffe, simply = image and white and brown colours.

Tasting the cappuccino, simply = bitter

Seeing the depth of the tube of the aircraft, simply = image, also the color blu and magenta

Loving,

[Paloma60]

Only the 5 Senses or Thought Arising are DE

here is the correction you asked me to do Stacy.

Seeing a table, with a paper glass and a cup of coffe, simply = image

Tasting the cappuccino, simply = taste

Seeing the depth of the tube of the aircraft, simply = image

I checked and we have 8 hours difference, so I'm going to put the kids at sleep and I think you're gonna have your day to go through, so I wish you a nice day Stacy
Pasquale

[Anastacia42]

Good. Here's the next step:



Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Be sure to use the Quotes & answer every question.

Loving,

[Paloma60]

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now

compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

I cannot say which one is truer then the other but for sure I can affirm, that the first one was about describing what it was the experience, while the second way, while it was still about the experience right here, right now and still it was like melting of some of the body tension and the feeling the body sensations was more clear and intime, it was a kind of melting into feeling, more relaxing and feeling different sensations, either outside and inside the body. Also in the second way, each time I was writing, for example: hearing the dish washer, it was clear that it’s just sound. And the space and the distinction between "hearing" and "the sound" didn’t make sense anymore, like: hearing is the sound and sound is the hearing, seem to be no space, no distance between the two.

2. What is here without labels?

Looks like everything is with label, seem that everything is a story, not because it is a label and it is a story but rather because is made up that way. Still as soon there is the distinction between the story, the label and the sensations like the exercise you gave me couple of days ago, then some calmness and intimacy arises.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Well it looks like the label when is not seen as “label” it is actually overiding the experience, or covering up the pure/raw experience. It is like an interpretation that covers up what is been said, with what I think he or she said.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Yes definitely while the second way, the body was or more precisely is been felt softness, a lot of relaxing and a constant melting sensation, a kind of more and more softing up and melting of tension. using different words was an allowing to feel with intimacy many details of sensations.


I really loved this Stacy. It looks like, “What am I experiencing” and “what is the experience right now” have two different perspectives and the second implies (at least for me,) relaxing and feeling with intimacy more sensations in details.

_

you wrote (Be sure to use the Quotes & answer every question.) and I'm not sure I understoo what you mena wiht "quote" Please let me know if I missed something and thanks a lot dear Stacy for this

[Anastacia42]

you wrote (Be sure to use the Quotes & answer every question.) and I'm not sure I understoo what you mena wiht "quote" Please let me know if I missed something

Yes, this:

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Thank you!

[Anastacia42]

Good. You're LOOKING at Direct Experience. Two things:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Below is a pointer to help you with that.


Here is how to distinguish truth from lies:

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

2. What is here without labels?

LOOK What is left if there are no words?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Okay, but did the experience *actually* change or only your thinking about it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

the second way, the body was or more precisely is been felt softness, a lot of relaxing and a constant melting sensation, a kind of more and more softing up and melting of tension

That's a lot in one post. Please make sure to address each item. There is one more pointer to help you with #3, but we'll do that after you finish these.

Loving,

[Paloma60]

what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel

Dear Stacy,
good morning here is a sunny day in Hamburg 8.20Am

I think I got your point in you last post and I also very much appreciated.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.
Scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience),
What is found?

(I had difficulty to find one and so I took your suggestion and invented one that is a clear lie: I want to leave my children and a contraction in the middle of the chest going up to the throat and on the face the jaw also tense.)


- -

I went through the experience again to refresh it

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel."Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself,
Do you see that?

(Yes Stacy, I do see that, it is a shock how much of what is believed to be the real experience, it is just an interpretation, an assumption.)

_ _

2. What is here without labels?
LOOK What is left if there are no words?

(The immediacy of Hearing, feeling, seeing, tasting, smelling)

- -

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Okay, but did the experience *actually* change or only your thinking about it?

(Definitely labels don’t affect, they do not change the experience at all.)


have a nice day

[Anastacia42]

Excellent. You're seeing things clearly.

Let's bring these together:


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[Paloma60]

looking in actual experience.

Dear Stacy, this was great. here is 11.39Am and the sky is blu today in Hamburg

here we are:

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Whatever they describe seems to be clear to be a story about it and a story can’t be experienced, can only be imagined.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Seem to be no apple but rather only seeing and touching and smelling and feeling and thinking.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

This reminds me the exercise you gave me few days ago and so it seem to be like: there are no things, so there is no apple existing independently, by itself but rather only the experience of seeing, so colour, image and the experience of touching and smelling.

However, is an apple actually known?

No, what seem to be known, experienced is the seeing, the smelling, the touching and yet the apple seem to be an abstraction or a label that cannot be experience.

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Well this is great to see that most of what is believed to be real are actually labels and assumptions, conclusions all of them based on a direct experience, which is kind of forgotten, or kind of oversight. Also is amazing to see that thoughts can be experienced and yet the contents of thoughts which means the story cannot be experienced, cannot be felt.

thanks a lot Stacy for this
have a great day
Pasquale

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome. Very good, Pasquale.

Here's another piece of it:

here's a pointer to look at "control. "

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Paloma60]

examine your direct experience.

Dear Stacy,
this is such an an intimate process, that even though I don't know you at all, it feels like I have a kind of relationship with you

How is the movement controlled?

It really looks like there is no authority, to have control on the movement and if there is one, well I didn’t feel any. It feels like it moves by itself

Does a thought control it?

Doesn’t feel like a thought control it but rather it feels like thoughts are commenting and claiming the movement AND it feels like the thoughts come after, they come in after the movement, so they don’t control, it feels more like they claim the movement.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No! it is strange to say: "no" and yet, no form of controlling agent, can be found and located.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand

It looks like there is a lot of claiming for the movement, which feels like it move itself. it really looks like there is no authority who decide.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

It really looks like there is no chooser and yet it moves. I paid attention to other movements as well and it’s really absurd to find no one who organise and decides what to move first and when, it’s a bit crazy to say this and still, it really looks like there is no chooser, no one who organise movements.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No! I also got the thought saying clearly: “I’m gonna turn the right hand palm up now” and yet when the palm went up, it didn’t feel like the thought was the point of controlling. really strange and funny.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, it is an intimate thing, kind of beneath what we think of as "reality."

Yes, no controller. You've got it.

Can you say 100% that there is no separate "self?"

If so, how does it FEEL to notice this?

Loving,

[Paloma60]

Can you say 100% that there is no separate "self?"

probably this is the best question and I’m asking myself the question and what arises is another question:

what is that can say 100% that there is no self?

it looks like there are only thoughts claiming this and that, one thoughts after the other
I feel that I can't answer that question and still I can still ask: can I be sure 100% that there is no separate self?
Let me be a bit with this question Stacy

I see that there is like an expectation that should a shift an experience and that everything should be different and I also see that this could be a problem because why should be different? for who?

Please give me some feedback here
many thanks
Pasquale

[Anastacia42]

There doesn't have to be a who for there to be a shift.

Have you read Gateless Gatecrashers? You can download it here. Read some of those dialogues and watch for the shift.

Loving

[Paloma60]

hi Stacy
I'm still with the question:

Can you say 100% that there is no separate "self?"

and I took your suggestion and wen tback to read again the book

I'll be keep reading and asking the question and if you have any suggestion I'm available

many thanks
Pasquale