Seeking more than an intellectual understanding

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

Like I can force my thoughts to repeat a word over & over

Who decides ro repeat a word over & over?


❤️🖖

[jrm72]

PS: a better way of putting that would be -

Where did the thought about repeating athe word count from?

❤️🖖

[jrm72]

Didn't check my post for errors -


... repeating the word come from?


❤️🤣

[solstice]

Where did the thought about repeating athe word count from?

Hmm that is tough, feels like it is coming from within me/the bodymind somewhere? Are you saying it is also just arising like everything else?

[jrm72]

Evening Solstice,

Are you saying it is also just arising like everything else?

It's not what I say, it's what you experience that counts.




Try this -


Label-Reality Correlation

There is usually a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?


❤️🖖

[solstice]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

I experience the colour of red but the word/label green

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

The red colour is experienced

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

No they are not one to one with reality

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

The label suggests the colour green which is not present

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

Green is just a word which implies the colour green but in this example it is actually red

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No effect on the experience of the colour

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

No direct effect on reality but may colour the thoughts about reality

[jrm72]

Evening Solstice,

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"
No they are not one to one with reality

What relationship can you find between a label and reality?


❤️🖖

[solstice]

What relationship can you find between a label and reality?

It is a one way relationship, a label is an attempt at conveying what something in reality is. Labels can sometimes be broken down into more specific labels, ie horse is a label, but it is also a combination of labels describing all de of a horse (smell, image, etc.)

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

Rather than thinking about your answers, try to give replies from actual experience.

Here's a pointer that should bring some of this together.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise or google for a picture of an apple.

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.


❤️🖖

[solstice]

However, is an apple actually known?

This is making my brain hurt lol
No an apple is not known, it is just a label used to describe a type of object. The object is is known through the use of the senses in direct experience, and we all 'agree' to refer to those objects as apples.
Not sure I am explaining what I mean in the clearest way.

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

This is making my brain hurt lol

We all go through that stage 🤣

No an apple is not known, it is just a label ..

.


So what does the statement - "All words are labels." bring up for you?

... and we all 'agree' to refer to those objects as apples.

This assumes a "label" means the same thing to everyone.

Not sure I am explaining what I mean in the clearest way.

You're doing great.





❤️🖖

[solstice]

So what does the statement - "All words are labels." bring up for you?

It makes sense all words/labels are just utilised for communication of direct experience

This assumes a "label" means the same thing to everyone.

Yes, an incorrect assumption as everyone’s direct experience will be different. We ‘choose’ to ignores the possibility of subjective differences in day to day life as it makes it easier to understand one another.

[jrm72]

Evening Solstice,

What does the label "Self" represent for you?


❤️🖖

[solstice]

What does the label "Self" represent for you?

hmmm, my body & mind and any past experiences related to them (so in a way all of my past experiences I guess).

[jrm72]

Afternoon Solstice,

What does the label "Self" represent for you?
hmmm, my body & mind and any past experiences related to them (so in a way all of my past experiences I guess).

The mind - is this the place where the thoughts you have no control of arise? (see previous exercises)

Past experiences - are these not thoughts now?


The body (which your thoughts do not control - see previous exercises)



Also -

Butt Chair Exercise


Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.



❤️🖖