Remembering

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Vivien
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Re: Remembering

Postby Vivien » Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:59 am

What are those things (elements) happening in experience that are habitually MISTAKEN for a self/me/Catherine?

The "I" thought eg "I am walking" "I am tired" "I love my kids". "habitually' is the right word! It is such a habit I can't imagine it going away. But it is true that whenever I look I can see there is no entity. People reinforce the separate self mistake all day long too. They are looking at me as a separate entity. Then there are 'my' responsibilities, my financial situation, my job, my car.....my life. I know none of this is who I am but these elements reinforce the mistake.
And what about sensations in the body? Contractions that seem to be the 'sense of me'?

Also, look deeply into this. Are you after a state? That is peaceful? Or a state that feels good? Or feels different than being Catherine?
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:18 am

Well, all sensations feel like they reinforce ‘me’. Tightness in the throat, the feeling of walking, breathing. The contraction in the forehead, the familiar comfort of my hair against my neck and back, sensations in my face. I’ll keep looking.

I’m not sure I’m looking for peace or anything other than Catherine. But I will look at this deeply too.

Grateful grateful grateful. x


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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:01 am

Hi vivien,
I am finding it tricky to identify sensations that feel like me. All body sensations are familiar and are attached to me as the owner/knower but that points me to 'I am not the sensation" which is good when I am noticing what's happening. The I thought is the biggest trickster.

In terms of what I want, a state or feeling....There have been times in my life when I have been in extraordinary pain, terror, panic etc and have wanted relief but at the moment things are ok and I am regulated and steady. I am not needing a way out other than from regular daily suffering and struggle. I really just want truth and to stop seeking. There is a restlessness and a drivenness that continues despite many efforts to 'drop it' 'get over it' surrender to 'it's never going to happen' etc and yet the energy marches on. I am not looking for an expanded conscious state or 'flow' etc. I've had glimpses of those and I know it's not that. I've had glimpses of no self and that feels ordinary and so completely obvious that I always assume that it can't be unseen.... and yet the fog rolls back in. this work with you here feel different to any thing ive done in the past though, and believe me, I have worked hard. This feels like an excavation, a fact based looking and the daily commitment is something I have prayed for.

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Vivien
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Re: Remembering

Postby Vivien » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:29 am

Hi Catherine,

It's good that you are not after a state or a certain feeling. But the seeking is still on. Why? Is it because sometime it's not clearly seen?

Is there perhaps an expectation that it must be seen 24/7? That it's not real seeing if it's not 24/7?

Can you zoom onto that seeking energy... and see what is it made of? What is seeking made of?

Seeking means that I'm searching FOR something. What is that? What is it really that is being sought?

If you say that is being sought is truth... then well, that's quite vague. What is it really that needs to be seen or discovered?

P.S. you are doing a nice inquiry, just keep going :)
V
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:17 am

But the seeking is still on. Why? Is it because sometime it's not clearly seen?
[/quote
That's right! It is most usually not seen. I go through weeks where it is seen and i can not imagine that the clarity could fade, but it does and right now i feel more lost, more doubtful, and a greater sense of knowing nothing than ever before! It is as though all accumulation of knowledge from all the years of seeking has vanished and I am holding on to this thread with you as though it is all there is.
That it's not real seeing if it's not 24/7?
I know it is real. I don't doubt what I have seen. But yes, I do have a strong push for having more access to seeing than I currently do. The on/off on/off thing is very painful and if seeking didn't have this inexhaustible supply of energy I'd have gotten off this train a long time ago.
What is seeking made of?

Energy. Strong painful energy, discomfort, restlessness. It is held in place by its fight with "I". When the I disappears so does seeking. I'll play with "when seeking disappears does the I?" My immediate feeling is 'yes". Gosh, what a relief. I can't tell what it is made of other than energy, lack, doubt.
What is it really that is being sought?
Peace. And I don't mean some flowery peace, I mean deep peace and rest with the way things are, including pain. I want to lose the illusion of the self as separate. I want to live in the knowing of that, I want to actualise the glimpses I have had. To live that as effortlessness.To not be in this constant struggle of trying. I am so exhausted.
What is it really that needs to be seen or discovered?
Who and what i really am. To know the openness of that.
The reality of non duality. The constant truth of that.
P.S. you are doing a nice inquiry, just keep going :)
OMG! Thank you for that encouragement. Long term seeking is so humbling and demanding. It feels rough.

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:26 am

Actually, when I look I see that seeking energy is ultimately empty. And so is the concept of I . And that is peace. I’m going with that!


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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:32 am

Hi Vivien,
I didn't post yesterday bc I've been feeling angry and stuck and I am sitting with that energy. I have been fighting and feel all tangled up in not being able to see or feel any kind of no self. It is as though I am locked in tighter than ever. Today the sensation in my torso and head and legs and hands feels a lot like a me. I am trying to see that I am not a sensation, I am the awareness of that sensation....

I am half way through watching a you tube interview with you on Nothing FM. I am so lucky to have you as a guide!
Do you think it would help to book a meeting with you? Do you only meet people on line? I'd be happy to drive to Brisbane one weekend to have an hour's session face to face. But Zoom is easier I guess. And you may not work on weekends.

I often get to this point of disillusionment with seeking and I hate sounding like a complaining child - that's why I didn't post yesterday.

I hope you are enjoying the cooler weather.
x

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Vivien
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Re: Remembering

Postby Vivien » Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:41 am

Hi Catherine,

Yes, I like the cooler weather :)
I often get to this point of disillusionment with seeking and I hate sounding like a complaining child - that's why I didn't post yesterday.
Well, seeing and not seeing, feeling that I've lost it, is very much part of this journey, and I think it happens to most of us. So don't feel good bad about that :)
Today the sensation in my torso and head and legs and hands feels a lot like a me. I am trying to see that I am not a sensation, I am the awareness of that sensation....
Now, let's do a very targeted investigation with this.

Isolate a feeling/sensation, only one at a time.

Like focus on the sensations of the legs that feels like a me.
Keep the focus on the sensation itself and ask:

Is this sensation aware?
Is this sensation aware of me? Or, I am aware of it?
Does this sensation know anything?
Does it know whatever is seen?
Does this sensation perceives the sounds in the room?
Does this sensation aware of thoughts?


Do this until the sensation doesn't feel like a me any more, until it's just a sensation perceived/known/'awared'.

When you are done with one sensation, go to the next. Like to the hands.
When that is done, go to the torso.
It's better to approach it from the feet up, investigating the sensations of the head the last.

When you are done with the body/sensations, do the same with mental images/memories, and also with thoughts.

If the 'feeling of me' is back, and it feels like a solid, real me, then this again.

The more you do it, the less these sensations be sticky, and the quicker the shift in perception happens.

Let me know how it goes.

About a session: If you want to talk, zoom would be better for me, and you wouldn't have to travel. But at this point probably it's not necessary yet. Unless, you feel that you really need it. We are still at the beginning of our inquiry. We don't have to rush. Patience... I know, you've done this for a long time... but let perceive it as a new beginning. :)
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:36 am

Ok.
Thanks for the reality check that this is just a beginning and that its common to go back and forth.
I am conscious of taking up your time and I am relieved to infer from your last post that we could be here a while, and that you're ok with that.
I have been isolating and targeting sensations. They are perceived therefore not me. Little glimpses of exhilarating freedom flash by, then the next me sensation/thought arises.
Do you know of Emmanuel? He is an entity, friend of Ram Dass channeled by Pat Rodergast . The Emmanuel books were one of my first real entry points into spirituality. Emmanuel says to clearly imagine drawing an outline of your body in dark pencil, then start to imagine that you are slowly and deliberately erasing the lines, paying close attention when you do the head last. Then see where/what/who you are! The exercise you've given me reminds me of that. Headlessness too. Spaciousness, no lines, The space/consciousness becomes figural instead of the sensations.
Phew! I think the heaviness of the last few days is abating bc of the investigation. The sensations dissolve. But there seem to be a never ending supply so I will continue with this for now.
One day maybe I will book a session. I am so grateful I don't know how to express it to you. I hope you feel it. If there is no I and no you how can gratitude be expressed? Is the expression in the feeling?

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Tue Mar 19, 2024 9:54 am

Hi Vivien,
The investigation continues and an openness is happening, very subtle and intangible but something is loosening...and it is happening on its own. There is no sense of 'me' doing anything that is creating the spaciousness, no feeling of cause and effect, just a subtle, quiet expansion or a melting or a diffuse ness. Actually dissolving. No sense of a need to cling to it, just an awareness of it. It makes it much easier to do the targeted inquiry too.
xx

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Vivien
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Re: Remembering

Postby Vivien » Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:09 pm

great. Just keep investigating :) I'll write tomorrow a longer reply.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Vivien
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Re: Remembering

Postby Vivien » Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:57 am

Hi,

I said that I was going to write, but I didn't time for it. But here I am now :)

Before adding any new pointers, how things are going?

Love, V
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:02 am

Hi Vivien,
I am continuing to question and enquire into things/sensations/thoughts that appear as me. ‘I love getting into bed’ Who or what is the I that likes that? The body likes the sensation of rest but that is not me. Then there is a sense of expansion and deep rest/peace/freedom. ‘I really want a new car’ Who is that I? A broadening if vision, awareness of the road, the sky, the car I am driving, the freedom of not being enslaved by that desire. Then there is a sense of relief and joy. There are thoughts that want to analyse what’s happening and dissect it all but they don’t stay long or get much traction. There is a sense of keeping my gaze slightly unfocussed on that side of things and allowing the process to unfold. Shame is around so there is the question and understanding that the shame is not me. Then there is compassion and understanding and allowing. Just whenever an awareness of an I appears I’m meeting it with an enquiry. xxx

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Vivien
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Re: Remembering

Postby Vivien » Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:06 am

Nice :)

Now look at this:

What is the I that is doing the inquiry?
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Catherine1
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Re: Remembering

Postby Catherine1 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:42 am

Oh Wow!
Ok.....
This is feeling as though I am turning myself inside out!
Ill let you know.....


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