No controller, but is that it?

[Anastacia42]

Oops, just do the Apple one first.

[has0i]

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Content of thought is made of thought stuff. It is not really here.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

The thought "apple" is a conceptual object. It's not really here. Color red and firmness to touch is here though.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No. But the redness and firm to touch thing is found in actual experience.

However, is an apple actually known?

No.

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

It is fun, thanks :)

Just to confirm, we're not saying the red, juicy firm thing doesn't exist right? We're saying that the concept "Apple" is a label made up in English language which points to that experience. That label/thought object is in thought only. Is this right?

Thanks

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Only thought.

Now try this:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[has0i]

How is the movement controlled?

There is a non-verbal impulse/feeling/knowing which is followed by the movement.

Does a thought control it?

No. A thought can precede it though.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

There is a non-verbal knowing in the body that hand is about to turn immediately followed by the turning of the hand. That knowing can be said to be the decision point, I think.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Nobody chose it.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No. I think the body sense of knowing it's gonna turn over is interpreted as choosing the action.

Thanks

[Anastacia42]

That knowing can be said to be the decision point, I think.

Go back to Colored Socks or the quote below. What have we said about thinking?

Loving,

[has0i]

Look only into direct experience for answers instead of in thoughts, got it. Let me try that again.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Tried a lot. Just can't find any decision point. Sometimes there is some vague image thought that the hand is about to move followed by the hand moving. That's it. Other times the hand just moves.

[Anastacia42]

I think the body sense of knowing it's gonna turn over is interpreted as choosing the action.

If you LOOK (not think or interpret - more thinking) , you'll find that EVERY time it "just moves."

Can you SEE this? (not think)

Loving,

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

Can you SEE this? (not think)

I have been doing this exercise throughout the day. There seems to be a lot of resistance to just saying yes here, sorry. Maybe I don't understand the question correctly.

Sometimes there is still a non verbal thought "Hand is about to move" followed by the hand moving. Hand is moving on it's own. Nothing controls it. But the prior thought is still there sometimes, especially when I'm super focused. Are you saying there is just the hand moving every time, with no such prior thoughts ever? That just doesn't seem to be what I'm experiencing, sorry.

[Anastacia42]

No. I'm saying the thoughts happen, but they have nothing to do with the hand movement. Otherwise, they would do it every time.

How it happens is a total mystery.

Loving,

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

That makes much more sense, thanks. Yes I see this.
Hand moves all by itself.
Sometimes thoughts say "move it", hand then moves.
Sometimes thoughts say "move it", hand doesn't move.
Sometimes no thought, hand then moves.

There is also a jumping of attention to sensations on the face and a image thought of face pops up every now and then.

But hand just moves. Thoughts can't move it, body sensations can't move it. They exist alongside it, saying they did it. There isn't anything else in direct experience else to move it either.

Thanks!

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Now you're seeing clearly.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Loving,

[has0i]

How does it FEEL to see this?

Did you mean body sensations? It feels pretty neutral and calm. There are some sensations in the neck and on the face, other areas too. Emotionally not very turbulent right now.

For some reason, right now the thought storm has somewhat subsided (Probably because it is the weekend and stressing about work has wound down). Visual field is more prominent right now. There is still the sensations on the face and image thought of face. Everything feels part of one big soup, which is the only soup here, right now. Feels very comfortable. But I must say, I've seen this "soup" many times, but then the weekday starts and so with it the struggles, thoughts about future, the seeking, complaining, rollercoaster of emotions, doubts and the self. Right now though, things are just rolling through, with not as much push and pull as usual. It's pretty nice.

Thanks :)

[Anastacia42]

Good.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Usually a sense of peace and connection accompanies seeing that there is no self.

Can you say 100% that there is no separate self anywhere and never has been?

Let's see how things are on Monday and Tuesday then maybe you would like to answer "final" questions.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Here's a pointer to can use over the weekend.

This is the only pointer Ilona gave me when I was guided here. i practiced this for about 3 months. I call it:

ButtChair

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.

Loving,