gateless22

[warissem]

Good evening

Have you seen for sure that there is no you, no separate self, in any shape or form ?
Be free to expose any doubt about this stuff here.

Kind regards

Warissem

[zmj1]

Thanks Warissem,

I have seen that the voice of the ego talks by itself. It speaks in the 1st person, and it is heard, but there is no controlling it. Any thought I’ve ever had about myself, anything I’ve ever said, have happened by themselves without “me” having any control. I have laughed a good deal about this… All actions happen by themselves, everything is one big flow, like boiling water, and it all happens by itself.

My philosophy recently have been “do nothing, try nothing, because all action springs forth by itself. The pressure to “act to control outcomes” is the very pressure that causes stress stickiness and unhappiness. And this philosophy works.

The story of “Julian” is an imaginary narrative that pops up in the mind like popcorn, all by itself. It literally is a day dream, a fantasy story about a fantasy character and when it melts away, what’s left is life in crystal clear HD, happening by itself, in pure stillness and clarity.

So this is my understanding this far. Now there there is a question that’s coming up:

“If the voice is talking by itself, then who am I?”
I believe that the answer to this question is that it is itself a thought “object” that arises with no control. Instead of taking it to be “my true voice, behind the other voices” (a sort of super ego) it can be viewed as just another “I” thought object. The stickiness happens when There is identification with ANY “I” thought.

That’s pretty much the biggest thing. The “I” thoughts have been seen to be an illusion, but an identification is still happening with them on some level.

Overall, over the past 6 months, identification with the “I” thought and with the story in general has been dissolving in a deeper and deeper way. (I had my first glimpse that the “I” was just a thought while reading Gateless Gatecrashers 5 years ago.) A few months ago, after listening to a lot of Elkhart Tolle, I noticed that the first person voice speaking in my head was talking by itself. In the past I had taken that to be me talking, controlling the voice with free will. At that moment it was seen very clearly that it spoke by itself as if someone else was speaking in my head. This insight continued to deepen and the perceived “reality” of thought confined to dissolve. I came back to Liberation Unleashed knowing how helpful this direct technique is, and the LU content online helped deepen it further. This process continues to deepen every day and it would be happening - by itself - without any particular teaching.

So that’s what it is. I’ve seen the illusory nature of self. It is deepening constantly, but the illusion still comes back casually. There is always a background awareness that the story is not real, but it continues to show up.

I guess this is the clean up period- bouncing back and forth between mind stories clarity.

The “I” stories return in a casual was as light banter in my mind about what I’m going to do, a creative project I’m working on, about things in general.
But they get a lot stronger around around feelings of irritation, typically at other people. Of course, the ego is most strong when it is in resistance and opposition to something.
“I don’t like this task at my job” etc..

This biggest irritation, the time when the “I” emerges most strongly would be the thought “I’ve seen things so clearly… why is the ‘I’ story returning!” Irritation about the returning (but weakening) “I” story.

——

What do you think, Warissem?

Thank you so much. Julian

[warissem]

Good evening

This biggest irritation, the time when the “I” emerges most strongly would be the thought “I’ve seen things so clearly… why is the ‘I’ story returning!” Irritation about the returning (but weakening) “I” story.

Seeing through the illusion of a separate self is a beginning not the end. "I" is still poping up because there are still beliefs which have not fallen yet. Now, it is up to you : even I ask you the final questions and close this dialog OR you continue to expose the "I" to more light and I 'll accompany you.

Kind regards

Warissem

[zmj1]

Hi Warissem I'd love to expose the "I" some more

This is what I've been thinking about recently:

In spirituality, they say "You are not the voice in the head [the thought based separate self]. You are the one who observes the voice."

But doesn't this imply a "one" who observes the ego?
And wouldn't that "one" just be another conceptual idea of a viewer?

If there is no"thing" that observes the separate self, is there no "I Am" consciousness? Would that mean that things are just happening, with nothing perceiving them, and that any sense of "I, the deeper viewer" is just a thought?

So any time a thought comes up "If I'm not the ego, then who am I?" - that's just a thought and no one's asking it? No deeper "I Am" self that asks it?

"If I'm not the voice, then who am I?"
A. That thought is happening and is perceived by a [deeper me, consciousness, "I Am", etc..]
B. That thought just happens. End of story.

For some reason, B feels a lot more comfortable to me, so I trust that. Its just a new "way of seeing things" that thoughts just happen and no-one sees them. No more "I Am" consciousness, that this may just be a form of super ego, of a conceptual separate viewer

I think this crystalizes a problem that has come up as the main question for me.
Thank you and have a wonderful day! Julian

[warissem]

Hi Julian

You were asking questions for yourself and have given the answers for yourself about this ultimate subject, if it were. Now, a one dollar question : have you seen that there is no you, no separate entity, no Julian, in any shape or form OR is it a logical reasoning through a thought process ?

If it is seen with a big fat YES I will ask the final questions. If not, what is missing ?

Best wishes

Warissem

[zmj1]

I'd like to keep going. Can you please give me the next pointer?
Thanks, Julian

[warissem]

Hi Julian

"I want" so and so. Example : I want enlightenment, I want freedom.
"I don't want" so and so.

Look at this statements and comment about what you see.

Warissem

[zmj1]

Thanks Warissem

Upon looking, the “I” seems empty, as if the statement came from nowhere and is totally meaningless.
Like reading “I want food” painted on the wall.

Julian

[warissem]

Good morning

Fine. An exercise for you :

Going through the day, dive into direct experience as often as possible. Label the
experiences with the most basic names. Examples :

seeing the screen - label it as seeing
hearing sounds of vehicles - hearing
feeling warmth on the face - sensation

etc ...

Come back with your comments.

Best wishes

Warissem

[zmj1]

Hi Warissem,
I apologize for the delay, I sent you a message about needing to take care of a few things and getting back to you in 2 days, but I’m now seeing that it never sent.

I’m ready for the final questions,
Thank you,
Julian

[warissem]

Good morning

These are the final questions, elaborate on each of them :

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Kind regards

Warissem

[zmj1]

Hi Warissem,
Thank you very much.

1. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate self. There never was; there was a convincing illusion that there was, but only a daydream made of conditioned “I” thoughts. A voice talking by itself, to no one.

2. Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of a separate self is a string of thoughts made up of “me” “I” and “mine”. It appears to be a continuous reality, but upon closer inspection it is seen that that there is no continuous self, only intermittent thoughts of a self. Kind of like a 30 frames per second animation. There is a voice speaking in first person, and for year years it seemed that it was an entity with free will. In reality it is a voice speaking from nowhere to no one, and there is no free will. Everything happens by itself. Thoughts, as everything else, occur spontaneously out of nothing. There is no entity in control of anything.

Through this inquiry, there is an objectification of the narrating voice in the head. When it’s talking, it can be seen as just a voice talking- not “me talking, me the talker”. The voice speaks in the first person but it is just a daydream, like a character in a book, constantly narrating the plot… but with coherency in the narrative.

3. How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Before, there was definitely a sense of doership, a heaviness. Thongs were all “my responsibility” and needed to be addressed and controlled right away. And if they didn’t go a certain way, it was “my fault”.
Now after seeing this illusion, there is a lot of spontaneous and uncontrolled laughter. It’s such a hilarious illusion, the simplicity of it all. There is no longer this burden that “things in my life aren’t as they should be and it’s up to me to fix them all” sentiment. Now, things go as they go, they happen as they happen, but there’s no pressure or heaviness or feeling that “things will be complete in the future”.

The non existence of the self is the greatest gift in life and it brings a lot of joy and incredulity.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Just the realization that the “I” thoughts were happening by themselves (and always had been). The voice talks by itself and that just creates so much laughter these days! This simple observation completely deflated the balloon of the self and it’s importance and it’s many problems.

5. a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work

Free will - Free will is an illusion predicated on the existence of a separate self to HAVE the will. There is one motion of the universe, everything in connection (no “things” really, only by the minds perception), and out of that unity the mind misperceives causal action. But there are no causal forces in reality, only the ever changing experience.

Intention - Intention, the mind figures out which direction things are going and says “I did that! I made that happen! This was my intention!”

Decision- Thoughts come in a split second after something is already in motion. The thought “I will raise my arm” happens a split second after the arm is already in motion. The mind is commenting on what happens spontaneously, no causing it to happen.

Choice- Choice implies a chooser where there is none. The mind takes credit for what’s already happening. It labels actions that happen and appropriates them.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works

There is no responsibility because there is no “me” to be responsible. Hand scratches head- then mind says “oh, yes. I’m scratching my head”. Neck stretches and cracks and mind says “ah, if I can just get the right angle I’ll really have a good crack” The self is seen through as a voice speaking by itself, but there is no seer, no uncoverer of this, this illumination merely happens. It’s all happening by itself. Saying that a person is responsible for their life is like saying a river is responsible for its destination. It’s just part of a process, and there are no “things” to be responsible for because there are no things. Just the process.

6) Anything to add?

What’s remarkable about this insight is really how simple and obvious it is. Just look, and you can see it in an instant! The world is filled with so many life stories, so many personal me’s and it seems so real but this insight is the most obvious things in the world! How could it not have been seen earlier! What a liberating, freeing wonderful revelation, lifting all of the heaviness off of everything. This realization is the biggest gift ever, what an experience.

Thank you Warissem for your time and thank you Liberation Unleashed for being such a simple and honest helper.

Julian

[warissem]

Good morning Julian

Thank you for the answers. Now I invite other guides to give further questions if any.

Best wishes

Warissem

[zmj1]

Thank you!

[zmj1]

Hi Warissem. will I be added to the Facebook Forum group? I’d like to train with Johnathan to be a guide, he and I had talked about that.

Thanks,
Julian