I still believe in Santa Claus

[Elad]

Pete, I might write more about that later, but for now, as you said, stop trying to get more of a handle through conceptual clarity. Just bring all your heart and passion to the questions I asked you. And let the words SEE and FEEL meet you in the most RAW and DIRECT way possible. Drop the explantions and the expectations for anything special. Be plain and sincere and bring all your heart to this intimately. Work with with it more, and write again.

[Thailand]

Is there a self? If yes, what is it? If no, just stay with that. How is that?

No, there is no self.

At work or going about my day: The body/mind is on autopilot. It does what it knows how to do. If it doesn't know how to do something it acquires the necessary information, then takes action or not. The ears hear people speaking. The mouth opens and words come out. The body sends signals of hunger to the brain. Food is prepared and eaten. There are events of stimulus and response throughout the day.

If attention is brought to the fact that there is no self doing all this, the actions continue to happen anyway. 95% of the day the body/mind is on autopilot and identified with an "I" that identifies itself with various thoughts, feelings, sensations. When attention is brought to "no self" it seems there is a silent awareness observing the thoughts, feeling, sensations but not making them "mine".

Dealing with rude people on the phone at work happens sometimes. When the idea of "no self" occurs, there is a recognition that there are mental and physical processes of anger occurring but no "I" to be angry.

In moments of silent contemplation of "no self": There is emptiness. Thoughts, feelings, sensations appear within this emptiness. There is in-and-out recognition that there is no "I" so there is no one for thoughts, feelings, sensations to belong to. They just appear and disappear. An attractive thought appears and a sense of self identifies with it for seconds or minutes. A no self thought snaps the spell and a more neutral awareness observes again.

There is recognition that identification is occurring nearly every waking second of every day. No self is always "present" but there is a sense of self seemingly on top of it. Ha! How could there be something that doesn't exist on top of something else that doesn't exist?

As I just wrote that, there was a sense that arose that said "you're on to something here" and a sense of fear arose and said "you better back off NOW."

If the intensity/dread/etc comes - good. Stay with it, FEEL. What is it, closer than any concepts?

Fear of harm, death, non-existence of Pete/I/self. There is recognition that FEAR and LONELINESS are just more arisings in awareness. They are experiences but there is no self to experience them.

And let the words SEE and FEEL meet you in the most RAW and DIRECT way possible. Drop the explantions and the expectations for anything special.

In my writing here, I've tried to bring my heart to this intimately and write direct experience without embellishing with concepts. But it's difficult to write because all words on some level are conceptual. You can't really say anything about raw, naked experience because it's non verbal.

[Thailand]

I just woke up and felt like I needed to write this because what I wrote last night was incomplete. What I wrote was...

There is recognition that identification is occurring nearly every waking second of every day. No self is always "present" but there is a sense of self seemingly on top of it. Ha! How could there be something that doesn't exist on top of something else that doesn't exist?

As I just wrote that, there was a sense that arose that said "you're on to something here" and a sense of fear arose and said "you better back off NOW."

What I didn't write was after I wrote the first part, there was a feeling inside of me like something was shifting. A feeling like something was opening up. A moment of grace was happening. But fear arose and pulled me back from the edge of a cliff. Part of me was afraid of annihilation.

I've had this feeling before and had something similar happen. A feeling of taking a leap into something new but part of me refuses to let go.

[Thailand]

Obsessing is coming up and that's ok. I keep going over the words I used to write my last post. It's very interesting when considered while sitting with "no self."


...a feeling inside of me like something was shifting.
There's a feeling that could be described as shifting but shifting inside who?

Part of me was afraid of annihilation.
Who or what is there to be afraid or annihilated?

A feeling of taking a leap into something new but part of me refuses to let go.
Who is there to leap and what would let go except one idea letting go of another one - both of which have no intrinsic reality?

"I" am speaking using the conventions of speech people normally use but when considered, they seem like they miss the mark. It seems like one illusion in conflict with another illusion.

[Elad]

Good! Continue...

95% of the day the body/mind is on autopilot and identified with an "I" that identifies itself with various thoughts, feelings, sensations.

Is there actually an identification with "an I" (implying something permanent, that is the same across moments) or just ideas of I/me/mine ocuring again and again, the illusion of "me" getting created moment by momeny?

Does the belief in I, actually identify with various thoughts? Can a thought think and identify? Or is identification just happening? Just process?

We are not looking to get rid of I/me/mine. Thinking and orienting in terms of I/you, mine/yours is part of normal and necessary functioning for a human in society and relationships. We are not looking to get rid of anything. Just SEE clearly in real time, that even selfing is just happening by itself.

Continue looking: Is there anything that is identifying or does "identifying" (whatever exactly that is) just happening? What is actually there, seen in real time?


And continue just feeling the sensations, including dread/fear etc when they come. As best you can don't try explain them, don't even try label it, just FEEL and see what happens, and let me know how it goes.

[Thailand]

Is there actually an identification with "an I" (implying something permanent, that is the same across moments) or just ideas of I/me/mine occurring again and again, the illusion of "me" getting created moment by moment?

There is no identification with a permanent "I" because there is no permanent "I", therefore it couldn't happen. However, there SEEMS to be a lifetime of conditioning that there is an I. The body/mind is most often thinking and acting in what it perceives to be the interest of that conditioned idea of "I" that it SEEMS to identify with.

Yes, ideas of I/me/mine are occurring (or are believed to be occurring) again and again. "I" am going to the store. This is coffee is "mine". These are "my" beliefs about that. It's not even spoken or thought about most of the time, things are just assumed to be identified with Pete or some other person/place/thing. That "I" am the individual doing/thinking/being various things.

Does the belief in I, actually identify with various thoughts? Can a thought think and identify? Or is identification just happening? Just process?

No, a thought cannot think. A thought IS thinking, it IS just a thought. That's very interesting. The belief in "I" is "made of" thoughts. The "I" thought wouldn't be able to identify with other various thoughts if a thought cannot think. There are certain thoughts that seem to be clustered together and be in harmony, they seem to identify with each other and create "me". When disharmonious thoughts or events occur, there's a sense of "get that away from me, that's not 'me'."

As far as I can tell, the sense of identification with a thought has no "power" to make anything happen on its own. The thought "you should go to work today" will probably be acted upon. The thought "you should go punch that guy in the face" will probably be ignored (thankfully). But both of them on their own have no ability to force anything to happen. There is just a sense of identification with this idea but not that one. The identification happens. The body acting or not happens.

Yes, identification is just happening. Or appears to be just happening anyway. There is a SENSE of identification. From one perspective, a SENSE of identification is necessary because without it the body/mind would die. If there was no sense of identification with anything in its own self interest, it couldn't survive.

You asked "Just process?" If that means that identification is just an activity, then I would say yes, it's just process. Identification feels like a verb, not a noun. Identification SEEMS to be something that's written in stone... these are my beliefs, this is how I want things to work. But in actuality, maybe it's just thoughts and actions occurring spontaneously. The world of the "I" thought has been reinforced for so many years, things just happen in alignment with those thoughts. The machine has been programmed a certain way, so to speak.

I keep thinking of cavemen and babies. How would a caveman or baby look at all this. Haha.

Continue looking: Is there anything that is identifying or does "identifying" (whatever exactly that is) just happening? What is actually there, seen in real time?

There are thoughts that arise sometimes that there is a lot of passion or anger or strong feelings around. A lot of ranting about a life situation has been happening today. There are strong sensations that occur in the body. There is an idea that occurs saying "I" identify with this because the sensations are so strong and the thoughts are so forceful. But identification is just another thought. And there is no I/me/self/Pete. So what is the body/mind getting so worked up about?

I say that this idea of what "I" am is a cluster of thoughts, beliefs, sensations, etc. but all of those things are just arising in the moment and fading away. There is no fixed thing "identifying." You could say identifying is just happening but it has no permanence or individual existence. There is nothing actually there, seen in real time.

Everything experienced in life seems to be a cluster of labels. A pencil has shape and color and purpose labels. "I" and "Identification" are collections of labels. When the labels aren't there there's nothing to say. Identification is meaningless. There is nothing seen in real time. This is not "my" phone, it's just an object. This is not "my" belief, it's just thoughts, and what's behind them I can't give a name to because to name it is to give it a seemingly independent reality.

[Elad]

Good, lots of clarity here.

Please do the following exercise:


Observing thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

These pointers are not new to you but please look and answer freshly.

[Thailand]

Where are they coming from and going to?

I have no idea. I want to say words like emptiness/the void/the absolute. But really I don't know.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No. But sometimes the thought would bubble up, "oh, I'm supposed to be noticing" and the thought occurring would cease.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

That seems tricky to answer. As there is no I/me/self, no, I couldn't do anything If "I" doesn't exist. If the thought bubbles up or someone were to tell me, "Think of the skateboard you owned when you were 10 years old," that thought would be conjured up. But I suppose I'd have to say it's not "me" that's making it happen. The thought/image is just arising.

Can you predict your next thought?

No. Because A) the prediction is itself the next thought B) To whom does the prediction appear?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No. I'm fairly certain that even people who are into the "power of positive thinking" still have unpleasant thoughts appear to them.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No. Not in my experience. Effort can be made to replace them with positive thoughts but they will always return. Also, there is no "I" to make choices.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Once again, that seems tricky to answer. As there is no I/me/self, no, I couldn't choose any kind of thought if "I" doesn't exist. However, if prompted a thought can appear on "my" radar.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

A thought that appears out of the blue... no, it's not possible to prevent it from appearing. However, it does seem that if an unpleasant thought appears it can be prevented from appearing again TEMPORARILY through diversion or thought replacement. Is it possible to definitely, absolutely prevent a thought from appearing? No. If I put on a movie to distract my mind for example, the thought could show up anyway.

These pointers are not new to you but please look and answer freshly.

Yes, some of these may not be new to me but it's been several years since I did the pointers in Greg Goode's book and I'm very grateful to be doing pointers with your insights this time.

And continue just feeling the sensations, including dread/fear etc when they come. As best you can don't try explain them, don't even try label it, just FEEL and see what happens, and let me know how it goes.

I don't know how to do this and I'm feeling frustrated. I am doing my best to FEEL it but without using language, which is labeling, I don't know how to let you know how it goes.

What I want to say is... the mind realizes something new, from an enlightening perspective. The body starts to tingle. There's an in breath. A feeling like something is opening up. A feeling of fear rushes in. The opening feeling goes away in a heartbeat. The underlying thought is something like, "You can't have some sort of intense, life altering breakthrough! You have to go to work tomorrow. You have bills to pay." Followed by a bodily feeling of depression. A thought that says, "That's so mundane and lame and embarrassing." An uneasy, conflicted feeling in the body.

[Thailand]

Is using the quote function to quote the questions you've written something you'd like me to do or do you prefer I not use it?

[Elad]

Good work! And using the quote function this way is good!

Now please do the same exercise one more time. This time don't use logic to answer, only answer through what you directly see with each question. So that means no answers like "it is not possible to control thoughts since there is no one to control" - except if it is your direct experience that there is no one, in which case it is fine to answer like that. Go over your last answers and see every place you use logic and explanations, reasoning over how things work. This is not the point here. Instead of this, every time only look at how thoughts actually come and go in real time, and answer the questions from that place.

As for the fear, good description of all the thoughts happening. Just keep noticing it whicever way it is. Same with any other emotion.

[Elad]

Also try this exercise:

Write out a sequence of numbers, something like this:

15, 32, 45, 1, 4, 9, 3455, 12.....

With each new number added to the sequence LOOK, where did the number come from?If some logical sequence starts to happen, say 2, 4, 6, 8......., or something else, where exactly did this sequence come from?

Do this exercise several time and report what you see. 

[Thailand]

Second attempt at the "Where do thoughts come from" exercise...

Where are they coming from and going to?

I don't know.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, they appear on their own.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No, not at that exact moment.

Can you predict your next thought?

No

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Yes. If I am prompted internally or externally to think of a particular kind of thought it will appear.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No, not with absolute certainty. But it does seem that I am able to temporarily prevent a thought from appearing by conjuring up other thoughts.


And the sequence of numbers exercise...

With each new number added to the sequence LOOK, where did the number come from?

I don't know. They just bubble up.

...where exactly did this sequence come from?

I don't know where it came from. My mind says you planted the idea "look for a logical sequence" so I started making one.

Do this exercise several time and report what you see.

These exact words are not appearing in my thoughts but these are roughly the feelings behind them... "That number is too similar to that one over there, you have to make it different." "That number is associated with _____, that's why you wrote that." "That's a single/double/triple digit number, you should make it _____ instead." "Relax and let them appear, you're forcing it."

When I try to SEE where the numbers are coming from and going to, the only thing I can say is they seem to come from nothing/nowhere and disappear into nothing/nowhere. There is a tension in my head though like I have to at least a little bit force the numbers into existence.

There is a thought/feeling associated with both these exercises of wanting to SEE and FEEL into a place where the mind cannot go.

[Thailand]

Reading what I wrote, the phrase "I don't know" stands out. I don't think I'm looking for something that can be "known" or "unknown" in a conventional sense. It's something that has to be experienced but I can't.

[Thailand]

I just said "I can't." Sorry. That's just whining. Everything unfolds in its own time.

[Elad]

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Yes. If I am prompted internally or externally to think of a particular kind of thought it will appear.

Is that something "you" can do? Or it will just happen or not?

I mean can control what you actually WANT to do? If I ask do you want now a beer or wine or a glass of water, it is obvious that whatever genuine answer comes up just comes up without a you controlling it right? And if doubt and mental gymnastics come up, that also just happens, right?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No, not with absolute certainty. But it does seem that I am able to temporarily prevent a thought from appearing by conjuring up other thoughts.

Again, if the idea to focus elsewhere comes up, where does it come from? From a separate self? Or just out of nowhere? And conventionally speaking we can say from prior conditioning, in the infinite interdependent conditioning chains of life...

Look. Everything is without self. Control is without self. Skills are without self. Will is without self. Relationships are without self. Self-experience and thoughts are without self. It is not that they don't exist, conventionally speaking. It is that upon clear looking here and now, it all happens by itself... No real separate self doing anything.

These exact words are not appearing in my thoughts but these are roughly the feelings behind them... "That number is too similar to that one over there, you have to make it different." "That number is associated with _____, that's why you wrote that." "That's a single/double/triple digit number, you should make it _____ instead." "Relax and let them appear, you're forcing it."

When I try to SEE where the numbers are coming from and going to, the only thing I can say is they seem to come from nothing/nowhere and disappear into nothing/nowhere. There is a tension in my head though like I have to at least a little bit force the numbers into existence.

There is a thought/feeling associated with both these exercises of wanting to SEE and FEEL into a place where the mind cannot go.

All this seeming conplexity just happens without self. You already can see this. Let go of expectations how it supposed to feel, or that it is some mysterious insight outside what is already clear when you look.