See Feel Breathe

[Arirang]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Struggling with words, but quotes or sayings similar to I am the universe, the universe is me; I am not one drop of ocean, never separate. I am not my ego; thoughts are sticky

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance. Community. Seeing. Pointing.
I recently sought coaching from someone awakened (based on my long time skeptical discernment). Following that meeting, the threads that have illuminated since that time led me here.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Challenge.
During the day, I work as a therapist. I have not been defined by it nor am seeking support from the field. Challenging questions to eliminate remaining ego. This spiritual seeking has never left even during times of relaxing away from seeking efforts.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
It’s been a long time on this journey. It included many valleys and peaks. Lately, I’ve found lots of stability along with a yearning for more uncovering.
Yoga asana practice, became a trained, was drawn mostly to classical Tantra and then to more current content (Jed McKenna, Angelo Dillulo)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Arirang]

How will life change?

An immediate thought is that it won’t. It won’t look different.
There’s also a knowing that everything will change. I’ve read somewhere that what I’ve been seeking has always been seeking me and there’s a deeper knowing that this is truth. That currently something is “missing” and as of recently, my intuitive practice has settled on the word “truth.”
That “I” will be ever changed. Non existent but I don’t even know what that means or will yield.

How will you change?

Thoughts say that I will feel more connected. At a recent retreat, during meditation, the lyric from an old hymn popped up “was blind but now I see.” And I grappled with that as a thought and was both curious and frustrated why that would be arising. Since then just settling with the various thoughts and feelings that keep arising. More morose than previously and noticing that this leaves me questioning while also trying to settle with the feeling/mood.

What will be different?

Nothing and everything. The sense of being home. Thoughts suggest that the ability to stay present, grounded in the every here and now, will be more readily available and accessible. Perhaps, further thoughts suggest more clarity when thoughts arise. Less “doing” anything with these thoughts, just awareness.

What is missing?

This answer also feels like “nothing and everything.” There’s a sense of doubt that is present. Perhaps what is missing is the lack of it and the knowing of truth. Even that sentence indicates the doubt.

Much gratitude for joining alongside the journey. Lately, I’ve been using my initials. Please call me, “me.”

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Good answers & pretty reasonable

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving

[Arirang]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

This one is sticky. Because it returns to moments historically where there were felt senses and knowing. But it’s past so the awareness that it’s a thought.
On a density level, the story goes, while hiking up Joshua tree, a surge of recognition that I was made up of everything and everyone that came before me. That even on a cellular level, the blood flowing in my veins were a culmination of every ancestor across time.
Here, now, the density feels strong that there is a me doing the seeing, engaging with life all around me. There’s also a magic that knows that I am the clouds, the sky, the bird and the air that keeps the bird afloat and soaring.
The story being an illusion is clearly conceptual. I “get” that it’s an illusion, weaved throughout this embodiment, given a name (called many things in fact), and absolutely sticky and dense. There’s a desire to let it go but the doubt is showing up because what is sticky is “all” I’ve ever known. And then typing that realizing that there’s a veil there because the knowing is absolute and what I’ve “known” as a me is still part of the illusion and beliefs.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, thank you

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

From here on out your answers should be briefer.woth no long storytelling.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Arirang]

Abundantly clear.
The only hesitation I sense is breaking the pattern of movement toward thought.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

The pointers will help. Let's start with this one.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Arirang]

Will do throughout the rest of the day and share this evening (I’m in PST)

Starting now with lunch outside in the sun.

Thank you for engaging me throughout this day.

[Arirang]

Seeing colors of various objects
Hearing bird sounds and hums of machinery
Feeling cold and the breeze on my skin
Tasting flavors and sensations (of spice)
Smelling food smells stronger when close to my nose (then thought “this is bread”)
Thoughts arising almost automatically or even simultaneously

Sitting a bit longer,
Seeing is happening (then, thoughts arising “clouds”)
Hearing is happening (then thoughts identifying source of sound “birds” “chimes)
Feeling exchange of breeze being felt or warmth being exchanged with dog on my lap
Tasting saliva
Smelling nothing in particular
Thoughts coming and going frequently, almost simultaneously with what is seen, heard and felt

Seeing dog, simply= image/color
Smelling fresh air, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the dog and cool breeze, simply = sensation
Tasting nothing, simply = taste
Hearing birds and dogs barking elsewhere, simply = sound
Thoughts about the sensory input, simply = thought

The more I sit with how you wrote it, the more subtle your instructions hit. Simply experiencing, when there isn’t a thought.

[Anastacia42]

The more I sit with how you wrote it, the more subtle your instructions hit. Simply experiencing, when there isn’t a thought.

Okay. only the last set is in the correct format. The format is important to help with how to distinguish thoughts from Direct Experience.

Do you want to reformat the first ones?

Loving

[Arirang]

Do you want to reformat the first ones?

Seeing colors, simply= image/color
Smelling bread, simply = smell
Feeling cool breeze, simply = sensation
Tasting flavors and spice, simply = taste
Hearing birds and machinery, simply = sound
Thoughts throughout, simply = thought

Seeing clouds, simply= image/color
Smelling nothing, simply = smell
Feeling cool breeze, simply = sensation
Tasting saliva, simply = taste
Hearing birds and chimes, simply = sound
Thoughts arising and falling, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

Great. Dob you see how itlands differently with thoughts & labels first & Direct Experience noted second?

Okay. now to this:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? It's there. Look.

Loving,

[Arirang]

Dob you see how itlands differently with thoughts & labels first & Direct Experience noted second?

Yes, it was absolutely organic. The first two times, it felt like an exercise, but by the 3rd, and rereading the instructions, it was like feeling an insight. Frankly though, the rewrites felt more like wanting to finish the ask with additional layer of the child wanting to correct behavior and earn favor. It took a bit for the eager feeling of wanting another reply to subside. Moving back to present moment during dinner and being with family helped temper the feeling.



I changed clothes
I walked downstairs
I poured my dog food/breakfast
I poured a cup of coffee
I added some powder to the cup
I opened the fridge
I grabbed the creamer and poured it in
I whisked the coffee
I rinsed the whisk and felt the cold water on my skin
I put my slippers on
I opened the sliding glass door
I let my dog and myself out
I sat down on a chair
I looked at my dog communicating she was done
I opened the door to let her in
I sat back down
I’m typing these thoughts
I’m listening to the sounds
I can feel my attention focusing on the different birds

Sitting on a chair
Listening to birds
Hearing sounds of traffic in the distance
Hearing sounds wax and wane
Typing thoughts
Hearing hum of a truck in the neighborhood
Watching leaves flutter and flow
Seeing sky
Noticing shoulders are tense
Dropping shoulders to relieve tension
Breathing
Eyes are moving gaze
Slight tension in foot to push the rocking chair
Big toe doing most the tension
Movement changed to outer side of foot
Stopped tension
Noticing rocking stopped
Gazed up at sky
Noticed bird fly into view and then out
Sipping coffee
Noticing warmth on the lips and in mouth
Noticing warmth move through my throat
Set mug down
Breathing

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Absolutely. The first felt so possessive. The second the possessions dropped, there was softening and a subtle change in awareness.

2. What is here without labels?

A softening and release.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labeling possessions feels like separation.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? It's there. Look.

Yes! Movements and experiencing happened without as much ownership or doership. Just happening. This thinking and typing actually disrupts it some. That and the fingers typing are FRIGID. lol

Good morning, Stacy! Thank you for your pointings

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

You're welcome.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
Absolutely. The first felt so possessive. The second the possessions dropped, there was softening and a subtle change in awareness

So, which one is truer?

You didn't answer the question.

2. Maybe true. Direct Experience is here. Like the pointers above.

3. No. Labels don't change it.

4. Good noticing. but look for tension vs. relaxation, which you already noted.

I'll share pointers to help.

First:

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,