No controller, but is that it?

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

Something interesting happened earlier. I think I'm starting to understand what Advaita folks mean when they say "I am". I had never understood this before, so this is new. Was just seeing the visual space and it felt like I am here. Not as body, not as thoughts, but just here. I am present here. There was a deep relaxation earlier when I saw this. Less push and pull. As usual, the flip-flopping to identifying with the body started to happen after that, but this seems significant. Is there a separate self though? Still want to answer yes, unfortunately. I still feel identified with the body now, so maybe it hasn't sunk in. Will see how it goes and will keep you posted. Thanks.

[Anastacia42]

If you're waiting until you never ever feel like a "self, " you'll be waiting a VERY long time.

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

I went through the gateless gatecrashers as you suggested. The conversation with Jamie resonated very well with me. I think I see this (again). I had seen this the last time I went through this book. Damn. There is no self, yes.

What was happening here was that somehow an assumption of "I" creeps back in. Then I start investigating the senses "face" sensations, "face" thought image and see that's not me, that's not me.... But the assumption of "I" remains. Again go through that investigation of senses and "that's not me", "that's not me". A never ending tiring search again and again.

There is no "I". It's in thought only. Sadly though, based on experience, I fear that that assumption would creep back in again followed by that torturous search. I guess this is what you call "falling". That tendency seems strong.

I would like to sleep on this. Will post again tomorrow. Thanks.

[Anastacia42]

That's fine. Sleep well.. Then look at this:

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

You don't have to do them again, but LOOK. What do they point to? [/color]

Loving,

[has0i]

Does the sense of self have a location?

No.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

No.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

No.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

I can't find it. "sense of self", "feeling of I", can't find it. But thoughts say "there is still the feeling of I". But just can't find it.


What is found?
Experience flowing here. It's not the deep relaxation of earlier, but still experience flowing. "Assumption of I" does happen in thoughts, multiple times the past day. Gets caught up in it, but then it seen to be a thought. The tendency to verify there is no self is still here. Looking again and again. Especially when there are disagreeable body sensations/ emotions. The keys analogy is very apt.

[Anastacia42]

Thoughts still happen, but you cannot find a "self," so you cannot believe them.

I ask again, can you now say 100% there's no "self?" How does it FEEL to see this?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Thoughts still happen, but you cannot find a "self," so you cannot believe them.

I ask again, can you now say 100% there's no "self?"

Loving,

[has0i]

can you now say 100% there's no "self?"

I have been staring at this question for some time. I'm so sorry Stacy, but for some reason it would be dishonest if I said 100%. I really don't know why. I have seen there is no self. But the tendency when reading this question is to look and check in experience repeatedly. Not the behavior of 100% surety. Please know that I really do appreciate you spending the time to help. But maybe this is as far as I go with seeing this. This question always trips me up. Or maybe it needs time to settle in. Could I answer this after a couple of days? Maybe the surety will come with time?

[Anastacia42]

You're just stuck in doubt. You still believe thoughts.

You watched the videos about falling.

What will it take for you to let go of believing this obvious lie?

Sure watch for a day or two & report back.

Maybe take a look at this doubter's thread:

viewtopic.php?t=9221

Loving,

[has0i]

Hi Stacy :)

What will it take for you to let go of believing this obvious lie?

This was a wonderful question! I've been asking this since yesterday. Kept writing down what is it that is needed for me to say 100% there is no self. Seems there were some expectations, all of which sounds very stupid when written out, but I didn't know they were there. Here they are:

What is expected? What is necessary to say I 100% believe there is no I?
- Never stop feeling like an I. This knowledge of no-self should be in all experiences. Never forgotten ever. In social situations, it should feel it is automatic and flow ALL the time.
○ In social situations, attention to never go to image of face and body sensations when talking and simultaneously feeling like an I talking.
- I should be like an observer watching this. These things should happen all automatically with no effort from me.
- Thoughts to stop speaking of an I.
- Sometimes the facial sensations are present much more significantly. Their intensity is high and they dominate the space. Along with it comes the mental image of face. This needs to go away. Then there is the tendency for the attention to go to the areas of the head, corresponding sensations etc. This needs to go.
- The feeling of awkwardness on the face sometimes when talking to people needs to go.
- Day dreaming should not be in terms of stories of I. Should not be scenarios where an alternate reality is played out where I do something different than what happened already and things go better. No day dreaming in terms of the self.
What is causing me to say there is no 100% certainty?
- Imagining that after a while, I'll be feeling like a charlatan when talking to people when I say I broke it.
- The fear that I'll say 100% there is no I, but when you message tomorrow, there'll be the feeling of "I" again.
What is expected? What is necessary to say I 100% believe there is no I?
- Never stop feeling like an I. This knowledge of no-self should be in all experiences. Never forgotten ever. In social situations, it should feel it is automatic and flow ALL the time.
○ In social situations, attention to never go to image of face and body sensations when talking and simultaneously feeling like an I talking.
- I should be like an observer watching this. These things should happen all automatically with no effort from me.
- Thoughts to stop speaking of an I.
- Sometimes the facial sensations are present much more significantly. Their intensity is high and they dominate the space. Along with it comes the mental image of face. This needs to go away. Then there is the tendency for the attention to go to the areas of the head, corresponding sensations etc. This needs to go.
- The feeling of awkwardness on the face sometimes when talking to people needs to go.
- Day dreaming should not be in terms of stories of I. Should not be scenarios where an alternate reality is played out where I do something different than what happened already and things go better. No day dreaming in terms of the self.
What is causing me to say there is no 100% certainty?
- Imagining that after a while, I'll be feeling like a charlatan when talking to people when I say I broke it.
- The fear that I'll say 100% there is no I, but when you message tomorrow, there'll be the feeling of "I" again.

The flow includes all of this. All the sensations that I feel a reaction to, all of it. The thoughts of self, stories of self, but it's all just happening. So yes,

can you now say 100% there's no "self?"

There is no self, 100%. All is a flow, happening here. No controller, things just rolling on.

Thank you very much Stacy! Much love :)

[has0i]

The "expectations list" was pasted twice it seems. Sorry about that!

[Anastacia42]

can you now say 100% there's no "self?"
There is no self, 100%. All is a flow, happening here. No controller, things just rolling on.

Good!

Yes, those expectations of 100% all the time are unrealistic. It can take some time for this to settle in. You saw the videos about that.

That said, are you ready to answer our traditional "final" questions?

Loving,

[has0i]

That said, are you ready to answer our traditional "final" questions?

Yes Stacy. Ready for them. Thanks.

[Anastacia42]

How welcome. Your replies will be shared with other guides, who may have questions.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?



Loving

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

Please let me post the replies tomorrow. Dealing with some stressful situations here taking up all the time for the last 2 days.