Hi Allen,
After Christmas will be fine! Happy holidays to you! :)
Kay
Inquiry with forgetmenot
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
Hope you had a great Christmas!
It feels kind of peaceful to look at what actually is. The key for me is to look without expectation, to see what is really there.
It's a bit easier to be there with difficult or unpleasant emotions. There's less of a tendency to want to push them away, although this is not always the case.
No, it doesn't.
No.
No, it isn't some kind of live entity that knows things.
It refers to some sensations that are thought to be in my chest, neck and head area that are supposed to be a live entity that thinks, does things, controls things, etc.
Yes, how thought images and verbalizations are not the real thing.
I can tell that the content of some thoughts aren’t actually happening in reality such as when there are thoughts about the past, future, certain scenarios or other fantasizing.
But I don’t quite know what to make of a lot of other thoughts. There are a lot of opinions, commentary, speculation, ideas, thoughts about other people, etc.
I can see that some of these are imaginary, such as opinions coming from a “me”. But other thoughts seem quite practical such as thoughts for work, making decisions in certain situations, figuring certain things out etc., even though they are “imaginary” and not a real voice in my head talking.
Also, based on what we’ve discussed and looked at, is AE the only thing that’s real? Is interpretation by thought just imaginary? A lot of thought seems useful to get along in everyday life. I think I’m probably overthinking this...
Thanks!
Allen
Hope you had a great Christmas!
How does it feel to see what actually is?
It feels kind of peaceful to look at what actually is. The key for me is to look without expectation, to see what is really there.
When looking at emotions as sensation + thought, what’s it like, then, to just be with the ‘emotion’?
It's a bit easier to be there with difficult or unpleasant emotions. There's less of a tendency to want to push them away, although this is not always the case.
Does the label "I" contain an actual I...does it contain an actual person?
No, it doesn't.
Does the label "I" itself, suggest in any way that it is an I?
No.
Does the label "I" know anything about an I?
No, it isn't some kind of live entity that knows things.
What does the label "I" point to? In other words, what does the word/label "I" actually refer to?
It refers to some sensations that are thought to be in my chest, neck and head area that are supposed to be a live entity that thinks, does things, controls things, etc.
The thoughts and mental images are real only as the actual experience of arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. In other words, the picture/idea that thought is ‘painting’ is the content of thought, and it is fictional.
Can you see this?
Yes, how thought images and verbalizations are not the real thing.
Over the course of the next day, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.
I can tell that the content of some thoughts aren’t actually happening in reality such as when there are thoughts about the past, future, certain scenarios or other fantasizing.
But I don’t quite know what to make of a lot of other thoughts. There are a lot of opinions, commentary, speculation, ideas, thoughts about other people, etc.
I can see that some of these are imaginary, such as opinions coming from a “me”. But other thoughts seem quite practical such as thoughts for work, making decisions in certain situations, figuring certain things out etc., even though they are “imaginary” and not a real voice in my head talking.
Also, based on what we’ve discussed and looked at, is AE the only thing that’s real? Is interpretation by thought just imaginary? A lot of thought seems useful to get along in everyday life. I think I’m probably overthinking this...
Thanks!
Allen
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hello Allen,
Christmas was a lovely quiet day. :)
Let’s look at ‘fear’. Remember that you are aware of whatever is appearing; aware of all thoughts, images and sensation; therefore you cannot actually be IN what is appearing ie you cannot be IN the sensation itself that is labelled as 'fear'. You are that which is aware.
I would like you to do this exercise several times. There will be stories that evoke fear...so use those stories to do this exercise. Take a couple of days if needed.
When ‘fear’ appears, become aware of where the sensation is appearing in the body. Close your eyes and notice everything that is arising along with the body sensation/s ie, thoughts and mental images and thoughts about the past events etc.
With eyes still closed and still noticing sensations, thoughts, images etc…investigate the following.
1) Look at the label/thought ‘fear’ itself. See the label/word F E A R or the thought “I am “scared/fearful” (whatever the particular thought is) as typewritten word/s in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead.
Is the label or the thought the fearful self?
Does the label ‘fear’ or the thought know anything about fear, or is the word/thought just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘fear’ or thought itself, fearful?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word/thought itself that is fearful?
2) Are any mental images appearing? Just keep noticing what images are appearing and investigate the images.
Are those arising mental images the fearful self, or are they just images that are arising and subsiding?
Can you find anyone/anything in the images that is fearful?
3) While your eyes are still closed, look at the mental image/outline, more so a facsimile type image of the body.
Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘fear’.
And then look to see if there is anyone/anything in image that knows anything about ‘fear’ or that can be ‘fearful’.
If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is fearful, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is fearful, as you did in step 1.
4) Then once all thoughts and mental images have been investigated, look at the sensation. Divested of the thoughts and images that are attached to the sensation…all that is there is raw sensation.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘fear’.
Look and see if the sensation itself is the fearful self. If the words ‘yes’ or other thoughts appears, go back to Step 1 and see the word/s ‘yes’ or the thought across the forehead and repeat step 1.
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is fear, or that it is fearful?
Does the sensation itself know anything about fear?
Can you find anyone/anything IN the sensation itself, or behind the sensation that is fearful?
If mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, go back and do step 2. Check to see if those images are the self who is fearful, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are an actual self that is fearful as you did in step 1.
5) With eyes still closed look carefully everywhere and see if you can find anyone or anything that is fearful.
Did you find anyone or anything?
When you have done this and when all thoughts, stories and images have faded out, what is left is just raw sensation. If thoughts and images continue to appear, let them pass on by unless they seem to hang around, then do the appropriate steps above. But once you are at just raw sensation without the thoughts, stories and images, allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it…remembering to breathe normally in and out through the nose.
If the sensation becomes too intense, inhale gently and fully into the sensation itself and exhale into the space around it. Do this several times if necessary. If it still remains too intense to be with, breathe deeply into the sensation again; notice the floor under your feet, your backside on the chair and the sounds in the room, and then open your eyes and notice what is in the room you are sitting in. Name those things out loud while still noticing the sensation - and remember to breathe normally! If the sensation does not dissipate at all, or only dissipates a little, that is okay. Just notice it without doing anything with it, and just go about your day and repeat the exercise later on until you are able to sit with the sensations without wanting to move away from it, without needing it to change or leave.
We are not trying to get rid of the sensation labelled ‘fear’ or the arising thoughts or images; we are only LOOKING to see what those appearances actually are, as opposed to just believing what thought is saying ABOUT what actually IS (appearing).
Let me know how you go. What did you find when you did this exercise. What happened?
The label ‘fear’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of fear
The sensation labelled ‘fear’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of fear
The colour labelled ‘me/I/body’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of fear
The thoughts ABOUT fear are AE of thought and not AE of fear
So, is there actual experience of ‘fear’, or what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT fear? Is 'fear' actually known?
Thought points to sensations and labels them “I/body/me”; however sensations are AE of sensations and not AE of an “I/body/me”.
Do the sensations themselves suggest in any way that they are an "I/body/me"?
What is the AE of 'chest'?
What is the AE of 'neck'?
What is the AE of 'head'?
Kay
Christmas was a lovely quiet day. :)
Lovely to see that you are aware of expectations.It feels kind of peaceful to look at what actually is. The key for me is to look without expectation, to see what is really there.How does it feel to see what actually is?
And the key to emotions is being able to allow the sensations in the body all the room they need without pushing them aside or wanting them to be different. Once there is no resistance to a sensation/feeling then it transmutes.It's a bit easier to be there with difficult or unpleasant emotions. There's less of a tendency to want to push them away, although this is not always the case.When looking at emotions as sensation + thought, what’s it like, then, to just be with the ‘emotion’?
Let’s look at ‘fear’. Remember that you are aware of whatever is appearing; aware of all thoughts, images and sensation; therefore you cannot actually be IN what is appearing ie you cannot be IN the sensation itself that is labelled as 'fear'. You are that which is aware.
I would like you to do this exercise several times. There will be stories that evoke fear...so use those stories to do this exercise. Take a couple of days if needed.
When ‘fear’ appears, become aware of where the sensation is appearing in the body. Close your eyes and notice everything that is arising along with the body sensation/s ie, thoughts and mental images and thoughts about the past events etc.
With eyes still closed and still noticing sensations, thoughts, images etc…investigate the following.
1) Look at the label/thought ‘fear’ itself. See the label/word F E A R or the thought “I am “scared/fearful” (whatever the particular thought is) as typewritten word/s in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead.
Is the label or the thought the fearful self?
Does the label ‘fear’ or the thought know anything about fear, or is the word/thought just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘fear’ or thought itself, fearful?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word/thought itself that is fearful?
2) Are any mental images appearing? Just keep noticing what images are appearing and investigate the images.
Are those arising mental images the fearful self, or are they just images that are arising and subsiding?
Can you find anyone/anything in the images that is fearful?
3) While your eyes are still closed, look at the mental image/outline, more so a facsimile type image of the body.
Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘fear’.
And then look to see if there is anyone/anything in image that knows anything about ‘fear’ or that can be ‘fearful’.
If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is fearful, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is fearful, as you did in step 1.
4) Then once all thoughts and mental images have been investigated, look at the sensation. Divested of the thoughts and images that are attached to the sensation…all that is there is raw sensation.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘fear’.
Look and see if the sensation itself is the fearful self. If the words ‘yes’ or other thoughts appears, go back to Step 1 and see the word/s ‘yes’ or the thought across the forehead and repeat step 1.
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is fear, or that it is fearful?
Does the sensation itself know anything about fear?
Can you find anyone/anything IN the sensation itself, or behind the sensation that is fearful?
If mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, go back and do step 2. Check to see if those images are the self who is fearful, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are an actual self that is fearful as you did in step 1.
5) With eyes still closed look carefully everywhere and see if you can find anyone or anything that is fearful.
Did you find anyone or anything?
When you have done this and when all thoughts, stories and images have faded out, what is left is just raw sensation. If thoughts and images continue to appear, let them pass on by unless they seem to hang around, then do the appropriate steps above. But once you are at just raw sensation without the thoughts, stories and images, allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it…remembering to breathe normally in and out through the nose.
If the sensation becomes too intense, inhale gently and fully into the sensation itself and exhale into the space around it. Do this several times if necessary. If it still remains too intense to be with, breathe deeply into the sensation again; notice the floor under your feet, your backside on the chair and the sounds in the room, and then open your eyes and notice what is in the room you are sitting in. Name those things out loud while still noticing the sensation - and remember to breathe normally! If the sensation does not dissipate at all, or only dissipates a little, that is okay. Just notice it without doing anything with it, and just go about your day and repeat the exercise later on until you are able to sit with the sensations without wanting to move away from it, without needing it to change or leave.
We are not trying to get rid of the sensation labelled ‘fear’ or the arising thoughts or images; we are only LOOKING to see what those appearances actually are, as opposed to just believing what thought is saying ABOUT what actually IS (appearing).
Let me know how you go. What did you find when you did this exercise. What happened?
The label ‘fear’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of fear
The sensation labelled ‘fear’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of fear
The colour labelled ‘me/I/body’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of fear
The thoughts ABOUT fear are AE of thought and not AE of fear
So, is there actual experience of ‘fear’, or what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT fear? Is 'fear' actually known?
The label “I” points to AE of thought. It is simply a thought.It refers to some sensations that are thought to be in my chest, neck and head area that are supposed to be a live entity that thinks, does things, controls things, etc.What does the label "I" point to? In other words, what does the word/label "I" actually refer to?
Thought points to sensations and labels them “I/body/me”; however sensations are AE of sensations and not AE of an “I/body/me”.
Do the sensations themselves suggest in any way that they are an "I/body/me"?
What is the AE of 'chest'?
What is the AE of 'neck'?
What is the AE of 'head'?
There seems to be thoughts that are useful in helping to negotiate the illusion of ‘a person in the world’. These thoughts in and of themselves are not a problem, however, when you don’t notice the difference between what thought says about reality, and how you find reality to actually be, that is when thoughts become tricky. Knowing ABOUT something is called knowledge (ie thought). Knowing what actually IS, is direct/actual…and this is what we are looking at in this exploration. Nothing is known as in knowledge – only thought says something is known because thought seemingly knows it. What is direct/actual is known because it is what IS. But in regards to knowledge, what IS, is unknown. We will be looking at the nature of thoughts shortly.I can tell that the content of some thoughts aren’t actually happening in reality such as when there are thoughts about the past, future, certain scenarios or other fantasizing.Over the course of the next day, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.
But I don’t quite know what to make of a lot of other thoughts. There are a lot of opinions, commentary, speculation, ideas, thoughts about other people, etc.
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
I'm so glad that we're getting a chance to look at negative emotions. My whole purpose in trying to see no-self is to deal with the shame issues that I suffer from. Apparently negative beliefs and emotions will be easier to release after no-self is seen.
From my understanding, trauma/negative emotions/negative beliefs from childhood can get "stuck", then other psychological parts consisting of thoughts/behaviors/emotions come in a try to protect "me" from feeling the trauma whenever it is triggered in everyday life.
I found it a bit difficult to trigger strong feelings of fear based on imagined stories alone, but still tried my best. Usually when I experience strong negative emotions or behaviors/thoughts I find problematic, they are triggered from everyday events.
The label is not the fearful self. It doesn't know anything about fear, it isn't fearful, and there isn't anything/anyone in it that is fearful. It is just a label.
The mental images are not the fearful self, and don't contain anyone real that is fearful. They are just images that arise and subside.
The image/outline doesn't know anything about fear. There isn't anyone/anything in it that knows about fear or can be fearful. The image/outline can't know anything.
The sensation doesn't suggest that it is fear or fearful, nor does it know anything about fear. Couldn't find anyone/anything in the sensation or anywhere that was fearful.
I didn't find anyone or anything that was fearful.
It was tough for me to generate a really strong feeling of fear. I did generate some feelings but they weren't that strong. It's very interesting to see what really is when a negative emotion like fear is dissected into AE. Usually there is a lot of fear or rejection of negative emotions. But once broken down, you can see that they can't really hurt you although they can be "intense".
There is no actual experience of fear and fear is not actually known.
The sensations do not suggest in anyway by themselves that they are a I/body/me.
AE of chest, neck and head are all thought.
Thanks!
Allen
I'm so glad that we're getting a chance to look at negative emotions. My whole purpose in trying to see no-self is to deal with the shame issues that I suffer from. Apparently negative beliefs and emotions will be easier to release after no-self is seen.
From my understanding, trauma/negative emotions/negative beliefs from childhood can get "stuck", then other psychological parts consisting of thoughts/behaviors/emotions come in a try to protect "me" from feeling the trauma whenever it is triggered in everyday life.
I found it a bit difficult to trigger strong feelings of fear based on imagined stories alone, but still tried my best. Usually when I experience strong negative emotions or behaviors/thoughts I find problematic, they are triggered from everyday events.
Is the label or the thought the fearful self?
Does the label ‘fear’ or the thought know anything about fear, or is the word/thought just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘fear’ or thought itself, fearful?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word/thought itself that is fearful?
The label is not the fearful self. It doesn't know anything about fear, it isn't fearful, and there isn't anything/anyone in it that is fearful. It is just a label.
Are those arising mental images the fearful self, or are they just images that are arising and subsiding?
Can you find anyone/anything in the images that is fearful?
The mental images are not the fearful self, and don't contain anyone real that is fearful. They are just images that arise and subside.
Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘fear’.
And then look to see if there is anyone/anything in image that knows anything about ‘fear’ or that can be ‘fearful’.
The image/outline doesn't know anything about fear. There isn't anyone/anything in it that knows about fear or can be fearful. The image/outline can't know anything.
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is fear, or that it is fearful?
Does the sensation itself know anything about fear?
Can you find anyone/anything IN the sensation itself, or behind the sensation that is fearful?
The sensation doesn't suggest that it is fear or fearful, nor does it know anything about fear. Couldn't find anyone/anything in the sensation or anywhere that was fearful.
Did you find anyone or anything?
I didn't find anyone or anything that was fearful.
Let me know how you go. What did you find when you did this exercise. What happened?
It was tough for me to generate a really strong feeling of fear. I did generate some feelings but they weren't that strong. It's very interesting to see what really is when a negative emotion like fear is dissected into AE. Usually there is a lot of fear or rejection of negative emotions. But once broken down, you can see that they can't really hurt you although they can be "intense".
So, is there actual experience of ‘fear’, or what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT fear? Is 'fear' actually known?
There is no actual experience of fear and fear is not actually known.
The label “I” points to AE of thought. It is simply a thought.
Thought points to sensations and labels them “I/body/me”; however sensations are AE of sensations and not AE of an “I/body/me”.
Do the sensations themselves suggest in any way that they are an "I/body/me"?
The sensations do not suggest in anyway by themselves that they are a I/body/me.
What is the AE of 'chest'?
What is the AE of 'neck'?
What is the AE of 'head'?
AE of chest, neck and head are all thought.
Thanks!
Allen
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Allen,
Happy New Year!
What many start to do is to deny the emotions ie “there is no self who is feeling these emotions and sensations. They are just sensations + thoughts” and so they just pretend and ignore. This isn’t helpful. The feelings have to be acknowledged by allowing them… by allowing the sensation all the freedom it needs in the body to expand, move, morph etc whilst observing thoughts, thought stories, mental images that arise with the sensations that are attached to these sensations. It’s the noticing of it all that is the key. The following by Scott Kiloby might be helpful to you. I would suggest that you find someone who can help facilitate you becoming aware of trauma stories and to feel the sensations openly. Once you have been facilitated a few times, you can then begin to facilitate your own inquiry into whatever emotions appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxIv2vTawWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9SuCD3uXEU
The other suggestion I have is to look up The Work (of Byron Katie) to help you to question the validity of thoughts and beliefs that cause suffering.
If you would like to talk more about this, send me a PM via the forum.
Okay…so let’s begin to look at the nature of thought. Seeing how thoughts work is a necessary part of seeing how the ‘me’ and the stories about a ‘me’ living life seem to be created.
Here is a step-by-step description of how to observe and become aware of all thoughts. The first thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts, be they words, mental images or snippets of music etc, but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.
When I ask you to look for the gap, the purpose of that looking is to slow thoughts down, as thoughts can be like a machine gun and fire a multitude of thoughts, one after the other and be very noisy, subtle, chaotic or calm. The objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.
1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you are sitting with eyes closed and all that is seen is the ‘blackness behind the eyes”. A thought might arise “oh look, there is a red glow appearing in the darkness behind my eyes” or “it feels strange sitting here watching for thoughts” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” – whatever thought is appearing.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.
Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought arises.
This is how to observe your thoughts:-
Watch how each thought arises and subsides
Watch and observe the gap (be it a short subtle gap or a long gap) between each thought
Notice how the current thought is passing,
And watch and wait for the next thought to arise/appear.
How did you go observing each thought as it arose and observing the gap between thoughts when sitting silently?
I would like you to also apply this observation of thought throughout your waking day. Try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice?
Kay
Happy New Year!
The key to any emotions is to be able to feel the sensations fully. The usual response is to push them aside, ignore them, distract ourselves from them or we try and change them. All these manoeuvrers will just keep the emotion in place to be played out in different life scenarios. Even after ‘no self’ is realised, it isn’t easy, at the beginning to sit with bodily sensations as they are usually intense as they need a few rinses to start to not be so intense. It’s about remembering to focus on our breath and to breathe normally…we normally tend to hold our breath.I'm so glad that we're getting a chance to look at negative emotions. My whole purpose in trying to see no-self is to deal with the shame issues that I suffer from. Apparently negative beliefs and emotions will be easier to release after no-self is seen.
From my understanding, trauma/negative emotions/negative beliefs from childhood can get "stuck", then other psychological parts consisting of thoughts/behaviors/emotions come in a try to protect "me" from feeling the trauma whenever it is triggered in everyday life.
What many start to do is to deny the emotions ie “there is no self who is feeling these emotions and sensations. They are just sensations + thoughts” and so they just pretend and ignore. This isn’t helpful. The feelings have to be acknowledged by allowing them… by allowing the sensation all the freedom it needs in the body to expand, move, morph etc whilst observing thoughts, thought stories, mental images that arise with the sensations that are attached to these sensations. It’s the noticing of it all that is the key. The following by Scott Kiloby might be helpful to you. I would suggest that you find someone who can help facilitate you becoming aware of trauma stories and to feel the sensations openly. Once you have been facilitated a few times, you can then begin to facilitate your own inquiry into whatever emotions appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxIv2vTawWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9SuCD3uXEU
The other suggestion I have is to look up The Work (of Byron Katie) to help you to question the validity of thoughts and beliefs that cause suffering.
If you would like to talk more about this, send me a PM via the forum.
Okay…so let’s begin to look at the nature of thought. Seeing how thoughts work is a necessary part of seeing how the ‘me’ and the stories about a ‘me’ living life seem to be created.
Here is a step-by-step description of how to observe and become aware of all thoughts. The first thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts, be they words, mental images or snippets of music etc, but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.
When I ask you to look for the gap, the purpose of that looking is to slow thoughts down, as thoughts can be like a machine gun and fire a multitude of thoughts, one after the other and be very noisy, subtle, chaotic or calm. The objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.
1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you are sitting with eyes closed and all that is seen is the ‘blackness behind the eyes”. A thought might arise “oh look, there is a red glow appearing in the darkness behind my eyes” or “it feels strange sitting here watching for thoughts” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” – whatever thought is appearing.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.
Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought arises.
This is how to observe your thoughts:-
Watch how each thought arises and subsides
Watch and observe the gap (be it a short subtle gap or a long gap) between each thought
Notice how the current thought is passing,
And watch and wait for the next thought to arise/appear.
How did you go observing each thought as it arose and observing the gap between thoughts when sitting silently?
I would like you to also apply this observation of thought throughout your waking day. Try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice?
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
Happy New Year!
Wow! Thank you for all the suggestions and info about dealing with emotions and trauma. I found that what you wrote about and really applies to me. Grateful for your help. I'm looking forward to applying the exercises you suggested.
As for observing the gaps between thoughts, I would like to take more time with this exercise too. I find it hard to observe the gaps. I just notice thoughts coming one after another. Sometimes when it seems like there isn't a thought present, I feel unsure about it. Then this uncertainty just becomes a thought.
Thanks,
Allen
Happy New Year!
Wow! Thank you for all the suggestions and info about dealing with emotions and trauma. I found that what you wrote about and really applies to me. Grateful for your help. I'm looking forward to applying the exercises you suggested.
As for observing the gaps between thoughts, I would like to take more time with this exercise too. I find it hard to observe the gaps. I just notice thoughts coming one after another. Sometimes when it seems like there isn't a thought present, I feel unsure about it. Then this uncertainty just becomes a thought.
Thanks,
Allen
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Allen,
Thoughts arise....
"How do I become free?", then the thought fades away.
Another thought appears:
"How do I discover THIS?", then the thought fades away.
Another thought appears:
"Who am I really?", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"I have a doubt about my practice and understanding", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"I am not happy", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"I am", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"Me", and then fades away.
Kay
Is this observing the gap difficult because your mind is perpetually busy? I am not quite getting how a gap between thoughts can cause uncertainty, unless the mind is very busy and gaps between thoughts are far and few between as thoughts are just an unending stream?As for observing the gaps between thoughts, I would like to take more time with this exercise too. I find it hard to observe the gaps. I just notice thoughts coming one after another. Sometimes when it seems like there isn't a thought present, I feel unsure about it. Then this uncertainty just becomes a thought.
Thoughts arise....
"How do I become free?", then the thought fades away.
Another thought appears:
"How do I discover THIS?", then the thought fades away.
Another thought appears:
"Who am I really?", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"I have a doubt about my practice and understanding", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"I am not happy", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"I am", and then fades away.
Another thought appears:
"Me", and then fades away.
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
Verbal thoughts that are appearing in the moment are the easiest to see (like the ones you mentioned in your example), no problem with these. I think if I did this exercise with just verbal thoughts I wouldn’t have a problem.
But there are other thoughts that are more like assumptions, ideas or labels. Such as a me here observing my thoughts, a me checking for gaps or a me sitting here in a room. These are harder to see and keep track of. They seem more general and in the background or "unconscious". When I think there is a slight gap, it seems like these types of thoughts are still subtly active. So it makes me uncertain if I'm really observing a gap in thought or not.
I just did the exercise a couple of times, and I do find my thoughts to be an unending stream a lot of the time. Just a stream of images, sounds, etc. happening. Sometimes the images and sounds are vague, sometimes clear. Sometimes the images and sounds are combined. I can tell when thoughts change, but it's difficult to find gaps between them when they are just coming out like a stream.
Thanks!
Allen
Is this observing the gap difficult because your mind is perpetually busy? I am not quite getting how a gap between thoughts can cause uncertainty, unless the mind is very busy and gaps between thoughts are far and few between as thoughts are just an unending stream?
Verbal thoughts that are appearing in the moment are the easiest to see (like the ones you mentioned in your example), no problem with these. I think if I did this exercise with just verbal thoughts I wouldn’t have a problem.
But there are other thoughts that are more like assumptions, ideas or labels. Such as a me here observing my thoughts, a me checking for gaps or a me sitting here in a room. These are harder to see and keep track of. They seem more general and in the background or "unconscious". When I think there is a slight gap, it seems like these types of thoughts are still subtly active. So it makes me uncertain if I'm really observing a gap in thought or not.
I just did the exercise a couple of times, and I do find my thoughts to be an unending stream a lot of the time. Just a stream of images, sounds, etc. happening. Sometimes the images and sounds are vague, sometimes clear. Sometimes the images and sounds are combined. I can tell when thoughts change, but it's difficult to find gaps between them when they are just coming out like a stream.
Thanks!
Allen
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Allen,
The exercise was mainly for you to become aware of thoughts. There are thoughts that are seemingly 'heard' because they seem to be 'your voice' and there are more subtle thoughts that don't seem to have a 'sound', so to speak...they are just all thoughts. Thoughts and ideas are one and the same. It's a great idea from here on in, that you become the witness...learning to notice all the thoughts that appear throughout your day, every day. Put into practice becoming aware of all phenomena from the place of the observer.
Okay...so let's move onto looking at the nature of thought.
Here is a thought exercise. Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.
Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice all arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
Kay
The exercise was mainly for you to become aware of thoughts. There are thoughts that are seemingly 'heard' because they seem to be 'your voice' and there are more subtle thoughts that don't seem to have a 'sound', so to speak...they are just all thoughts. Thoughts and ideas are one and the same. It's a great idea from here on in, that you become the witness...learning to notice all the thoughts that appear throughout your day, every day. Put into practice becoming aware of all phenomena from the place of the observer.
Okay...so let's move onto looking at the nature of thought.
Here is a thought exercise. Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.
Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice all arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
I'd like to take some more time with this exercise. Thoughts are tricky for me.
Thanks,
Allen
I'd like to take some more time with this exercise. Thoughts are tricky for me.
Thanks,
Allen
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
I'm beginning to see how important this work with thought is.
I can't tell. They don't have a location. I can only tell that they exist.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
I think the answer is supposed to be no, and I can see it's a thought saying this, but sometimes it seems like I can?
For example, lets say you ask me to picture an apple or any other kind of object in my mind. I'd be able to imagine it without a problem.
No.
No.
I can see that it's a thought saying this as well, but sometimes it seems like a stream of thoughts can make sense while at other times it seems completely random. For example, when I was doing this exercise, I was getting close to falling asleep and that's when thoughts seem to be really random. All kinds of thoughts coming out that make no sense. I notice this when I'm about to fall asleep at night too.
Other times when I'm remembering something that happened the thoughts will just seem like a story. Or if thinking/logic is required for work etc., the thoughts seem to make sense. Or if I decided to count from 1 to 10 in my mind. Wouldn't this kind of be in a logical sequence?
Thanks!
Allen
I'm beginning to see how important this work with thought is.
Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice all arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are they coming from and going to?
I can't tell. They don't have a location. I can only tell that they exist.
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
No.
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
No.
Can you predict your next thought?
No.
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
No.
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
No.
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
I think the answer is supposed to be no, and I can see it's a thought saying this, but sometimes it seems like I can?
For example, lets say you ask me to picture an apple or any other kind of object in my mind. I'd be able to imagine it without a problem.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
No.
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
No.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
I can see that it's a thought saying this as well, but sometimes it seems like a stream of thoughts can make sense while at other times it seems completely random. For example, when I was doing this exercise, I was getting close to falling asleep and that's when thoughts seem to be really random. All kinds of thoughts coming out that make no sense. I notice this when I'm about to fall asleep at night too.
Other times when I'm remembering something that happened the thoughts will just seem like a story. Or if thinking/logic is required for work etc., the thoughts seem to make sense. Or if I decided to count from 1 to 10 in my mind. Wouldn't this kind of be in a logical sequence?
Thanks!
Allen
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Allen,
I'm beginning to see how important this work with thought is.
Yes, it’s very important…I would even hazard to say the most important! Without thought, that which is seamless and whole would not be seemingly divided into the many, including the idea of a ‘me’ who is doing its best to navigate life and who suffers. Becoming the observer of thoughts and differentiating between thought content and actual experience, are the tools you will use beyond realising that there is 'no self'.
I want you to look and 'find' a thought. You may see some ‘mirage-like’ arisings, but can a thought be actually seen? Can you see that even the label 'thought' is also a mirage-like arising!
Can a thought be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...or is it simply known?
Can a thought ever been hidden? Can a thought be had without the knowing of it?
If I asked you to picture an apple, did you choose that thought, or did it come unbidden into the mind? If I ask you not to think of pink elephants, what happens?
But let’s test the hypothesis that you are the one that has brought the imagined apple to the forefront of the mind as an image…that you have imagined the apple, that you thought that thought.
What process did you have to put into place in order to imagine the apple?
Describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought or an image. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought, how do you create an image? Describe to me, step-by-step how you did this.
Where did you go to retrieve the thought/image of the apple in order to become aware of it? Is there a storage container hidden somewhere that contains all thoughts and images from which you can then retrieve particular thoughts and images? How then do you bring it from the container to the front of the mind in order to become aware of it?
Did you have anything to do with creating the image of the apple, or it simply appeared?
Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them. Repeat the experiment as necessary.
How did you decide to count from 1 to 10? How did you choose to do that? You have already said that thought has no location and that you don’t do anything for particular thoughts to appear and you can’t predict your next thoughts or make different thoughts appear…so how did you bring that unseen thought of deciding to count to 1 to 10 from ‘no place’, to the forefront of your mind, to then start counting?
Did any of that happen, or is it that you became aware of the thought to count from 1 to 10 without you doing anything, and counting happened also without you doing anything?
Kay
I'm beginning to see how important this work with thought is.
Yes, it’s very important…I would even hazard to say the most important! Without thought, that which is seamless and whole would not be seemingly divided into the many, including the idea of a ‘me’ who is doing its best to navigate life and who suffers. Becoming the observer of thoughts and differentiating between thought content and actual experience, are the tools you will use beyond realising that there is 'no self'.
Yes, exactly. All that is known of thought is the knowing of itI can't tell. They don't have a location. I can only tell that they exist.Where are they coming from and going to?
I want you to look and 'find' a thought. You may see some ‘mirage-like’ arisings, but can a thought be actually seen? Can you see that even the label 'thought' is also a mirage-like arising!
Can a thought be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...or is it simply known?
Can a thought ever been hidden? Can a thought be had without the knowing of it?
I don't want you to think...I want you to LOOK. It is the looking to see what is that is the key...not just going with what one thinks one thinks!I think the answer is supposed to be no, and I can see it's a thought saying this, but sometimes it seems like I can?Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
For example, lets say you ask me to picture an apple or any other kind of object in my mind. I'd be able to imagine it without a problem.
If I asked you to picture an apple, did you choose that thought, or did it come unbidden into the mind? If I ask you not to think of pink elephants, what happens?
But let’s test the hypothesis that you are the one that has brought the imagined apple to the forefront of the mind as an image…that you have imagined the apple, that you thought that thought.
What process did you have to put into place in order to imagine the apple?
Describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought or an image. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought, how do you create an image? Describe to me, step-by-step how you did this.
Where did you go to retrieve the thought/image of the apple in order to become aware of it? Is there a storage container hidden somewhere that contains all thoughts and images from which you can then retrieve particular thoughts and images? How then do you bring it from the container to the front of the mind in order to become aware of it?
Did you have anything to do with creating the image of the apple, or it simply appeared?
Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them. Repeat the experiment as necessary.
Yes, it SEEMS that thought is in some logical order. And thought SEEMS to make sense only because another thought says so. Without thought saying so, how can it possibly be known? We aren’t arguing whether or not thought is logical or not…it can seem logical and illogical (which are still only thoughts)l…what we are seeing is that it is simply another thought that touts thought is in some sequential order and that thought knows something! We are looking at how everything we think we know is thought based and we are learning to question thoughts instead of just believing them. If thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant or in what order they were spoken? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts.I can see that it's a thought saying this as well, but sometimes it seems like a stream of thoughts can make sense while at other times it seems completely random. For example, when I was doing this exercise, I was getting close to falling asleep and that's when thoughts seem to be really random. All kinds of thoughts coming out that make no sense. I notice this when I'm about to fall asleep at night too.It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
Everything you wrote above is simply AE of thought. What do those thoughts point to? Do they point to actual experience or do they point to thoughts about thoughts?Other times when I'm remembering something that happened the thoughts will just seem like a story. Or if thinking/logic is required for work etc., the thoughts seem to make sense. Or if I decided to count from 1 to 10 in my mind. Wouldn't this kind of be in a logical sequence?
How did you decide to count from 1 to 10? How did you choose to do that? You have already said that thought has no location and that you don’t do anything for particular thoughts to appear and you can’t predict your next thoughts or make different thoughts appear…so how did you bring that unseen thought of deciding to count to 1 to 10 from ‘no place’, to the forefront of your mind, to then start counting?
Did any of that happen, or is it that you became aware of the thought to count from 1 to 10 without you doing anything, and counting happened also without you doing anything?
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
A thought can't be seen, felt, smelled, tasted, or heard. It's just known to exist.
No, a thought can't be hidden. A thought can't appear without the knowing of it.
The thought of the apple just came. And if you asked me not to think of pink elephants, I would think of pink elephants. HA...this is great!
I have no idea how the thought of the apple appeared. I didn't go anywhere to retrieve it. It just appeared.
I don't know why I choose the numbers I choose. The thoughts just appear. They just happen. I don't know why a certain number appeared rather than a different one. It's just what happened.
I can see that thoughts just come one after another with no reason why a certain thought appeared and not another. It's just what happens!
Yeah, I see that they're just thoughts about thoughts.
The thought and the counting happened on their own. Any other thoughts could have happened. It just so happened that the counting happened. I didn't decide it.
I can see how all this applies to other things like choices and actions. There's no particular reason why one choice is made and not another. Or why something is done and not something else. It just what happens. I don't even know why I think or do any particular thing anymore!
Thank you!
Allen
Can a thought be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...or is it simply known?
A thought can't be seen, felt, smelled, tasted, or heard. It's just known to exist.
Can a thought ever been hidden? Can a thought be had without the knowing of it?
No, a thought can't be hidden. A thought can't appear without the knowing of it.
If I asked you to picture an apple, did you choose that thought, or did it come unbidden into the mind? If I ask you not to think of pink elephants, what happens?
The thought of the apple just came. And if you asked me not to think of pink elephants, I would think of pink elephants. HA...this is great!
Where did you go to retrieve the thought/image of the apple in order to become aware of it? Is there a storage container hidden somewhere that contains all thoughts and images from which you can then retrieve particular thoughts and images? How then do you bring it from the container to the front of the mind in order to become aware of it?
Did you have anything to do with creating the image of the apple, or it simply appeared?
I have no idea how the thought of the apple appeared. I didn't go anywhere to retrieve it. It just appeared.
Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them. Repeat the experiment as necessary.
I don't know why I choose the numbers I choose. The thoughts just appear. They just happen. I don't know why a certain number appeared rather than a different one. It's just what happened.
I can see that thoughts just come one after another with no reason why a certain thought appeared and not another. It's just what happens!
Everything you wrote above is simply AE of thought. What do those thoughts point to? Do they point to actual experience or do they point to thoughts about thoughts?Other times when I'm remembering something that happened the thoughts will just seem like a story. Or if thinking/logic is required for work etc., the thoughts seem to make sense. Or if I decided to count from 1 to 10 in my mind. Wouldn't this kind of be in a logical sequence?
Yeah, I see that they're just thoughts about thoughts.
Did any of that happen, or is it that you became aware of the thought to count from 1 to 10 without you doing anything, and counting happened also without you doing anything?
The thought and the counting happened on their own. Any other thoughts could have happened. It just so happened that the counting happened. I didn't decide it.
I can see how all this applies to other things like choices and actions. There's no particular reason why one choice is made and not another. Or why something is done and not something else. It just what happens. I don't even know why I think or do any particular thing anymore!
Thank you!
Allen
-
forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Allen,
Some lovely looking about thoughts!
The following is to add a little humour because this looking can get a little heavy at time! Even though it is humorous…I think most of us can resonate with it! The narrator that is forever narrating our lives, as well as narrating the lives of others (stories, opinions and judgements) in our ‘minds’….and the many committee members that seem to reside in the mind and argue with each other!! Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWs4WA--eKU
Talking about the narrator, the link below is to a 7 minute soccer game. By watching the game and following the instructions below, this exercise is to help you to see that the commentator of the game is no different to the commentator labelled as ‘my thoughts’, and that the game played is no different to life unfolding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw
1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in and notice what the actual experience is.
2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.
Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (aka thought) offers lots of know-how and advice about what the players should or shouldn’t be doing and how they should be playing the game - as if thought can somehow influence what is going on - as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary seems to heighten feelings, and calls for loyalty with one team or another, and expounds the importance of this choice, and further expounds the importance of the game and its outcome.
3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary. Just watch the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Just notice what is happening as actual experience.
4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know the commentator is talking about, (and ignore all of your own thoughts as well), and just notice the actual experience of sound.
Let me know how you felt when the sound was turned on. Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?
How did you feel when the sound was off and there was no commentary at all.
Is the commentary on the football game a necessity for the play to happen?
And in the same way: is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?
Kay
Some lovely looking about thoughts!
Nice! Continue becoming the witness/observer of your thoughts until it becomes like second nature. There will be times when it seems you have, once again, been caught up in the flow of thoughts...and that is okay...it will happen...just go back to observing thoughts as best as you can.I can see how all this applies to other things like choices and actions. There's no particular reason why one choice is made and not another. Or why something is done and not something else. It just what happens. I don't even know why I think or do any particular thing anymore!
The following is to add a little humour because this looking can get a little heavy at time! Even though it is humorous…I think most of us can resonate with it! The narrator that is forever narrating our lives, as well as narrating the lives of others (stories, opinions and judgements) in our ‘minds’….and the many committee members that seem to reside in the mind and argue with each other!! Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWs4WA--eKU
Talking about the narrator, the link below is to a 7 minute soccer game. By watching the game and following the instructions below, this exercise is to help you to see that the commentator of the game is no different to the commentator labelled as ‘my thoughts’, and that the game played is no different to life unfolding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw
1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in and notice what the actual experience is.
2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.
Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (aka thought) offers lots of know-how and advice about what the players should or shouldn’t be doing and how they should be playing the game - as if thought can somehow influence what is going on - as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary seems to heighten feelings, and calls for loyalty with one team or another, and expounds the importance of this choice, and further expounds the importance of the game and its outcome.
3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary. Just watch the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Just notice what is happening as actual experience.
4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know the commentator is talking about, (and ignore all of your own thoughts as well), and just notice the actual experience of sound.
Let me know how you felt when the sound was turned on. Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?
How did you feel when the sound was off and there was no commentary at all.
Is the commentary on the football game a necessity for the play to happen?
And in the same way: is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: Inquiry with forgetmenot
Hi Kay,
The commentator in life feels so close, familiar and intimate. It feels like it's me. But I can see that it is thought that is claiming all this.
Sure, the video was more exciting with the sound and the commentary on. It created more of an atmosphere and makes it more dramatic.
Less excited than when the sound was on. More calm. But still a bit excited, due to commentary from my thoughts.
No, the commentary is just something extra.
No, I can notice how a lot of things happen on their own without need for commentary or thought. For example, walking, eating, changing my clothes, brushing my teeth, it all happens without the need for thought.
However, it seems some things in life require thought? Sorry Kay, here comes a bunch of thoughts about thoughts!
Isn't thought required for communication between me and you? Isn't it required for me to understand and carry out your instructions? To reply to you?
But then again, that there's a you, a me, communication between us, and an inquiry going on is all thought story and not AE.
Should thought just be ignored? I'm just not quite sure what to make of all this.
Thanks!
Allen
The commentator in life feels so close, familiar and intimate. It feels like it's me. But I can see that it is thought that is claiming all this.
Let me know how you felt when the sound was turned on. Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?
Sure, the video was more exciting with the sound and the commentary on. It created more of an atmosphere and makes it more dramatic.
How did you feel when the sound was off and there was no commentary at all.
Less excited than when the sound was on. More calm. But still a bit excited, due to commentary from my thoughts.
Is the commentary on the football game a necessity for the play to happen?
No, the commentary is just something extra.
And in the same way: is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?
No, I can notice how a lot of things happen on their own without need for commentary or thought. For example, walking, eating, changing my clothes, brushing my teeth, it all happens without the need for thought.
However, it seems some things in life require thought? Sorry Kay, here comes a bunch of thoughts about thoughts!
Isn't thought required for communication between me and you? Isn't it required for me to understand and carry out your instructions? To reply to you?
But then again, that there's a you, a me, communication between us, and an inquiry going on is all thought story and not AE.
Should thought just be ignored? I'm just not quite sure what to make of all this.
Thanks!
Allen
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