Ready!

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:04 pm

Seeing through the self is like the starting shot for much more unravelling, some stuff will drop away easily and epiphanies will lighten the path, but there will be confusion, beliefs and the way we look at ourselves will have to crumble.
The key is No resistance to anything! :-)
Yes, things are softening I think, and all feels ok :-) Lot's of ups, downs, happenings - at the end of the last few days, when I'm quite relaxed and I'm not putting pressure on to do things, lots of joy / calm is arising. I'm not 'seeing' no self / no separation all the time, or even at all as clearly as a few instances, but seeing the absence of something is intangible. There are definitely changes though.
Is thought aware or is there simply awareness?

No, thought isn't aware. I meant more that if you look at it in the traditional way, you might think that thought is aware of sensations, because it narrates them, comments on them, offers opinions and so on. But 'one is aware' of thoughts, thoughts are not aware. Who can say how thoughts about sensations arise - they just come.
It appears as though it depends on the relative strength of the sensations / thought, but perhaps that's just an assumption - does one seem stronger than the other because of story only?
Well, when one seems stronger there is lots of story - there is no real way to know if there is a causal link in either direction
(story makes the sensation stronger vs strong sensation features more in the story) - that's just more story. But there is correlation.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:57 pm

Thanks for the clarification about thoughts and awareness.
I'm not 'seeing' no self / no separation all the time.....,
Strictly speaking: one can't see no self.One can only stop believing the stories built about a self. ;-)
In the beginning reminders are needed, like asking questions and using DE, but slowly it settles.

No separation.... at all....at all time.....felt/part of the new overview? Verry slowly. Much more has to topple before that happens. Realizing what self really is is step number one.
..story makes the sensation stronger vs strong sensation features more in the story
Is it the story which makes the sensation stronger or the focus on it?
And yes, a stronger sensation is sure featured in a story in a big way.
You already found a change with your pain, the story, rezeption of it. Could you write a bit more and perhaps have an even deeper look at that what happens (contrary to focussing on pain)?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:22 pm

Hi Jadzia,

I'm really poorly with complications following the sinusitis. I'm going to rest up for a couple of days - will write soon. The situation is giving rise to some interesting stories to observe! LoL.

x.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:43 pm

I love your way of handling the situation. Go Girl and become healthy again!

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:14 pm

Hope you are having a good weekend.
Is it the story which makes the sensation stronger or the focus on it?
The more focus and belief in the story, the more the story cycles, grows, seems real and the more 'problematic' and stronger the sensation.
You already found a change with your pain, the story, rezeption of it. Could you write a bit more and perhaps have an even deeper look at that what happens (contrary to focussing on pain)?
For my 'normal' level of fatigue/pain I feel that I have found some perspective and peace - it seems ok. This compulsion/need to find the answer, fix it etc. etc. is less strong, and I feel that life can be ok with it present. The idea that 'I' am in control and need to make it go away is falling away - it just causes suffering and is unnecessary.

Then, wham, this period of being 'extra' ill, which has been going on for several weeks now, hits and new, but fairly familiar challenges. The story has been a bit heavy - 'what can I do to fix it?' (I know that all the sensible steps have happened and are being done, there's nothing more I can do, and no I to do it anyway), 'what if I can't meet my work commitments?' - I'm self employed, worry about letting client down, worry about knock-on effect, less income etc. if it doesn't get better quickly, feelings of frustration and helplessness (as if there was even an I running things anyway LOL). I have a little perpsective here and can see it's story. I also see that this stressing doesn't change anything - it's just thoughts, and if anything the stress produced by them will make the situation worse! Right now, my 'normal' level of ill would be wonderful :-) At the moment, this extra level of ill is 'not ok' in my story.

I see that pain/illness isn't really different to anything else that the story says 'shouldn't be this way'.

Looking wider, I'm feeling less compulsion to plan/control my days, and there is less tension in my relationship with my partner.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:17 pm

This sounds wonderful.
The more focus and belief in the story, the more the story cycles, grows, seems real and the more 'problematic' and stronger the sensation.
Belief is the keyword here. Without belief no focus, why would one focus on some story, tsk.
This compulsion/need to find the answer, fix it etc. etc. is less strong, and I feel that life can be ok with it present. The idea that 'I' am in control and need to make it go away is falling away - it just causes suffering and is unnecessary.
Beautiful.
have a little perpsective here and can see it's story. I also see that this stressing doesn't change anything - it's just thoughts, and if anything the stress produced by them will make the situation worse!
Not only a little perspective, you kept your humor and that is really good.

This extra level of ill is sure not pleasant and threat to finacial existence isn't any fun either, but it is a good chance to really look again and to take time into account. There is this moment, thoughts make up a possible future, just assumptions, they don't know.

We start falling out of the story and think "Hey great" and then wham - the next block in the road. ;-)
Often it is more accentuated and shows everything like in limelight. If you haven't seen/found/observed something yet, now is the chance.

So what becomes clearer right now?
Is there something you haven't seen up to now?
Is there something, an aspect of the story, you haven't looked at?
And keep in mind, there will already be a new story running which integrates the newly found knowledge and in it might already be new plans, aims, new beliefs, new image of what self is now and so on.


Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:21 pm

This extra level of ill is sure not pleasant and threat to finacial existence isn't any fun either, but it is a good chance to really look again and to take time into account. There is this moment, thoughts make up a possible future, just assumptions, they don't know.
Yes, good point. Worked with this today, and things were easier. Definitely while being extra ill, I've had to be much more 'one thing at a time' - right now I'll do this (story = how will I feel later, will I be able to do all my work today, what if x, what if why...? but letting go of this and focusing on just now).
We start falling out of the story and think "Hey great" and then wham - the next block in the road. ;-)
There'll always be another story I guess. And a new one might fool you for a while, perhaps. Although these are also assumptions!
So what becomes clearer right now?
I'm getting more practised at looking what is happening and discerning what is in thoughts vs what is here. For many years I've heard teachers, writers and so on say 'be in the moment' (I mean you can't be anything else), but it did not seem possible, however, releasing belief in a 'self' allows more presence for sure, and less angst at lack of presence ('oh the story ran off for a while, hmmm' then laying it aside gently as you recognise story has been playing).
Is there something you haven't seen up to now?
Is there something, an aspect of the story, you haven't looked at?
I don't think so - nothing comes to mind at the moment. There are lots of different parts to the story, but common features - many are playing the same over and over, many make assumptions about other people or about the future, and most assume there is an 'I' that can/should make it different. I guess just more practise and more letting go to happen. Expectations are a bit sticky - about where I should be in the journey, about how everything should be clear all the time, about how I should be able to feel not separated all the time. Fear that if 'I' don't try enough I will 'lose' this. But writing this, I see the hallmarks of story as noted above.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:03 pm

Definitely while being extra ill, I've had to be much more 'one thing at a time' - right now I'll do this (story = how will I feel later, will I be able to do all my work today, what if x, what if why...? but letting go of this and focusing on just now).
Let's call this a benefit from a not so nice situation ;-).
oh the story ran off for a while, hmmm' then laying it aside gently as you recognise story has been playing
That's helpful, really helpful if one can "catch" a story when it starts running, or after a while.
For years people talk about being in the here and now and one can do awareness training which sure is beneficial but without the belief in an ever omnipotent I it starts being so much easier.
Expectations are a bit sticky - about where I should be in the journey, about how everything should be clear all the time, about how I should be able to feel not separated all the time. Fear that if 'I' don't try enough I will 'lose' this. But writing this, I see the hallmarks of story as noted above.
Yes, this is a mixture of old stories of 'having to work hard', 'maybe not being good enough', and new ones 'everything should be clear all of the time' and so on.
Loving stories helps.
What else helps is sitting with the fear and allow everything to show what is there.

How about All that appears and is is ok?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:53 pm

How about All that appears and is is ok?
Hmmm. So, when I had those really strong experiences of connectedness / no separation, then at the time and for a while afterwards I was very calm, very at peace, and absolutely everything was ok. The mundane was even beautiful.

I would say that at the moment, my average state is that more things are ok. The general everyday things are all ok, and I don't feel stressed. That's not to say that there aren't thoughts that 'it would be better if I wasn't sick' or 'it would be nicer if the house was cleaner', but it's ok, and one thing at a time, and decisions will happen when they need to happen, and what will happen will happen so there's no need to fret about it. I can't say, absolutely, at this point that all that appears and is is ok. But it's as it is and can't be different, and is more ok than usual.

Reflecting on the question, there were thoughts along the lines of 'ok, the everyday normal is ok, less stress etc. and can all be ok, but what if something 'bigger' happened - e.g. the serious illness or death of a loved one'. So I then reflected that it would come under 'it is as it is and can't be different' but that it wouldn't 'feel' ok as grief/loss/hurt doesn't feel pleasant, and likely there would be lots of story about unfairness, and not the right time, and why etc. etc.

Do you think this means that I haven't quite gated yet? I think maybe the gate is more of a gradient than a single line! I would like it to be like a wrote at the top all the time - new story!

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:30 pm

Hmmm. So, when I had those really strong experiences of connectedness / no separation, then at the time and for a while afterwards I was very calm, very at peace, and absolutely everything was ok. The mundane was even beautiful.
Everything can be very fresh and new and beautiful and very peaceful and very ok. :-)
And then this becomes the new normal and it fades a bit or a bit more.
So mainly ok, is great.

There can always be experiences which will result in more thoughts, even in thought circles and feelings of not ok or not ok at all. But still you will find it is much less sticky and different than before.
I think maybe the gate is more of a gradient than a single line!
I love this! It is an easing into....

About you having gated - what would you say?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:52 pm

About you having gated - what would you say?
On balance, probably yes. There are times when I'm 100%, then times when I get caught up in story and so on and have doubting thoughts, or am just too wrapped up in life-ing, but I think I'm past the tipping point. When you asked if there were any other bits of story I hadn't looked at, I felt that although stories are there and sometimes suck me in and sometimes hurt, they just don't feel relevant to the seeking any more - I can see that they are stories and the detail of them don't affect seeing/knowing. The argumentative voice of 'but what about x or y?' has quieted. As I said before, I think more checking is good as things settle, and as you say new beliefs will come up and try to replace old beliefs, so probably important to keep checking and looking at what really is, so as not to settle into new assumptions. There is no urgency now, and I'm more comfortable with where the journey is taking me (rather than needing to make things happen), but also I'm excited/curious to explore more beyond this first step (maybe more gently / without a neediness with it).

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:16 pm

There are a lot of beautiful changes:
"I can see that they are stories and the detail of them don't affect seeing/knowing."
"The argumentative voice of 'but what about x or y?' has quieted. "
" There is no urgency now, and I'm more comfortable with where the journey is taking me (rather than needing to make things happen), but also I'm excited/curious to explore more beyond this first step (maybe more gently / without a neediness with it)."

Would you say that seeking stopped? Being curious isn't the same as seeking.

When doubting thoughts appear, what exactly do they look like and what happens?

Do you have any questions?

We are in no hurry to wrap it up here, so we just keep on until you get from a probably to a very sure of.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:47 pm

Thank you so much for your continued help :-)

I've started jotting down things that come up - doubt, experiences, my understanding of things at the moment - will continue this through the day, and write up what I find, and questions, tomorrow...

In the meantime...
Would you say that seeking stopped? Being curious isn't the same as seeking.
What would you say the difference is? Knowing/having experienced enough that this is where truth/the answers are = end seeking, but curiosity = wanting to see/understand more of what really is?

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:56 pm

Seeking, for me, is an active process, often combined with a yearning, seeking something out, being on the look out for something.
Curiosity is a kind of openess, an allowing of what appears in life, coming to think of it, for me joy and curiosity are connected, well .... tell me in what way you see it. :-)

I don't see that experiencing or learning ever stops.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:44 pm

Hurrah - I'm starting to feel less poorly, finally!
Seeking, for me, is an active process, often combined with a yearning, seeking something out, being on the look out for something.
Curiosity is a kind of openess, an allowing of what appears in life, coming to think of it, for me joy and curiosity are connected, well .... tell me in what way you see it. :-)
So I think seeking hasn't quite finished yet, then. There is still an active process of reminding, looking out, trying to 'reconnect', link up the different parts. I feel that I have seen some things to be true and have seen various assumptions/beliefs, but don't yet have effortless knowing. I have had times where I've felt in a place of effortless knowing, and felt what you meant by the openness. The last couple of days I've been very caught up in life and have not felt like I have gated.

Here are some of my notes from the last day or so, of where I think I'm 'up to'...

I have seen that choice just happens, by very close inspection of small 'choices' - not really choices, just movement from no intention to intention. The so-called other option doesn't ever exist, just thoughts. I still most of the time fall into feeling like 'I am choosing/ planning / controlling this'.

Can't actually find any self. Saw a bit of a trap in the last day or so with 'mind' - we refer to 'the mind' but there isn't a thing called the mind. Thoughts arise, images arise etc., we label these mental processes, and we label the processes 'mind' as if it is a thing, but it isn't.

With body - there is no 'thing' called body, no separation from 'outside' - just body sensations and mental image / memory of 'body', mental images conjured from sounds, 'external' touch, smell, taste etc. With eyes closed, in meditation, it's possible for a short time to let some of the mental images fall, or rather to find the space between the sensations and mental images and see the continuousness/oneness in sensation. On a couple of occasions it has been completely, vibrantly obvious that there is no self and no separation.

In terms of gating, here are some thoughts that have come up...
- what do we mean by gating / how will I know? (your description of your understanding of difference between seeking and curiosity is helpful here)
- lots of uncertainty here - in my story uncertainty = therefore I can't be there, also in my story there is need for validation still from you (i.e. do you think I've gated), but I think that if I had, 100%, then I would know - this seems like a needy / looking outside story. Although maybe 'it will be obvious' is a story/expectation too!

So hopefully here we can pick up some threads and see where I might need to look more! Thank you so much for sticking with me!


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