Looking for the Guide Taran

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Viquillusion
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Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:20 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding is that LU guiding aims to help the 'individual' to see they are actually (in reality and ultimately) not really 'individual' at all. We are not really separate and individual I. We are all part of everything and everything is us - universal energy, universal love. Ultimately we are formless and so no thing is actually 'ours'.

What are you looking for at LU?
I intellectually 'know' there is no 'I' and that that is an illusion which has been imprinted on or around me.
As well as knowing this, I also often feel and/or sense this to be true too.

In those times of knowing and sensing I simply experience - or perhaps better put - there is simply sensory experience and I am not them and I am more than.....

How ever there are times when, even as I know and sense there is no 'I', the illusion comes back and I get caught in stuff in life.

With support, I am wanting to clear away the illusion of 'self' or 'I' completely so that there is only a sustained direct experience. I want to get 'I' completely out of the way so that the sensory experience is the only experience.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Challenge to dig deep and get the illusion gone.
Support as I work through my blocks, resistances and old ingrained patterns and let them go.
Support in getting out of my own way
Support in letting go of the beliefs and illusions
Support to see past my self more often

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Broad variety of spiritual practices since 1960s - Catholicism, Aboriginal spirituality
Various Buddhist meditation and teaching traditions since 1980s

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:02 am

Hi there

Taran here. Just to "pick you up", I will respond to your questions in the next couple of weeks for us to start as agreed.

love
Taran x
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:09 am

Thank you Taran. Much appreciated. I’ll wait for you to ‘pick me up’ when you are ready next month. 🙏🏼🙂 X

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:15 am

Dear V

Since you're 11 out of 10 ready for this...... Whilst you are waiting.....

This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate. Realising the seeming separate self is illusory is not an intellectual understanding although it may be formulated in intellectual terms. Rather it is an experiential knowingness that is intimately your own and cannot be shaken or taken away.

At LU we are described as guides and not teachers as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises, questions and some dialogue.

Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at.

It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings about the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been and with this realisation a shift in perception happens. You can’t just sit and ponder what we are exploring, you must apply the ideas to your life; see them in action…actually do the work (practical application) every day, day in and day out.

Here are links to information I would like you to read before we begin.

Disclaimer:- http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:- https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/na ... f=4&t=660

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links

love Taran x
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:30 am

The quote instruction link above is incorrect... here's a 3 minute video. However, I note the guide says CTRL P to paste, but on a standard laptop it is CTRL V.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc

and another little bit of preparation.

In order that we both become even aware of what your expectations are about this exploration, please answer the following in your own words.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing ? in other words what is not present in your experience right now, so that you don't experience peace, freedom, wholeness, purpose?
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:28 pm

The quote instruction link above is incorrect... here's a 3 minute video. However, I note the guide says CTRL P to paste, but on a standard laptop it is CTRL V.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc
Thank you - that was helpful - I think I have worked out how to do that action. ;-)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:45 pm

In order that we both become even aware of what your expectations are about this exploration, please answer the following in your own words.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing ? in other words what is not present in your experience right now, so that you don't experience peace, freedom, wholeness, purpose?
How will life change?
life wont change - just experience and perception will be clear (or clearer)
How will you change?
I will be separate from the I identification and all that goes with that. The 'I' that I have identification with will not be there so experience (and possibly perception ????) will just be simply that with no complications born out of the idea of an 'I'
What will be different?
The idea of an I identification will no longer be there so the entanglements, complications and struggles that "I" and attachment to the idea of a separate 'self' bring will be gone
What is missing ? in other words what is not present in your experience right now, so that you don't experience peace, freedom, wholeness, purpose?
[/quote]

Its more that what is present is in the way rather than something is missing - but I suppose its that I have some space between my experience of my self and no separate self but I want to increase that space - so what is missing might be described as space - a permanent sense of space as apposed to a temporary one. I hope that makes sense - these things aren't easy to describe! :-)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:45 pm

In order that we both become even aware of what your expectations are about this exploration, please answer the following in your own words.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing ? in other words what is not present in your experience right now, so that you don't experience peace, freedom, wholeness, purpose?
How will life change?
life wont change - just experience and perception will be clear (or clearer)
How will you change?
I will be separate from the I identification and all that goes with that. The 'I' that I have identification with will not be there so experience (and possibly perception ????) will just be simply that with no complications born out of the idea of an 'I'
What will be different?
The idea of an I identification will no longer be there so the entanglements, complications and struggles that "I" and attachment to the idea of a separate 'self' bring will be gone
What is missing ? in other words what is not present in your experience right now, so that you don't experience peace, freedom, wholeness, purpose?
[/quote]

Its more that what is present is in the way rather than something is missing - but I suppose its that I have some space between my experience of my self and no separate self but I want to increase that space - so what is missing might be described as space - a permanent sense of space as apposed to a temporary one. I hope that makes sense - these things aren't easy to describe! :-)

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:39 pm

Hi V
Please answer the questions in blue.
How will you change?
I will be separate from the I identification and all that goes with that. The 'I' that I have identification with will not be there so experience (and possibly perception ????) will just be simply that with no complications born out of the idea of an 'I'
How would being separate from the I identification feel and look?

This exploration is just a beginning, as there will still be beliefs and patterns that need clearing as they are rooted in the idea of being a separate self which are what keep us identified, in moments, as the separate self.
So with this process, realising 'no self' happens, but after there most likely be more work to do, periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal and how long that period lasts, no one knows. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

What will be different?
The idea of an I identification will no longer be there so the entanglements, complications and struggles that "I" and attachment to the idea of a separate 'self' bring will be gone.
There will be times when it is clear there is no separate self as it is thought to be, and times when identification happens. But if there is the realisation that this is also just happening, then there is no getting caught up in the story of identification. However, this cannot be controlled, so be aware, seeing through the separate self is no guarantee that identifications stops immediately. There is an on-going unfolding process for most people.

What is missing ? in other words what is not present in your experience right now, so that you don't experience peace, freedom, wholeness, purpose?

Its more that what is present is in the way rather than something is missing - but I suppose its that I have some space between my experience of my self and no separate self but I want to increase that space - so what is missing might be described as space - a permanent sense of space as apposed to a temporary one. I hope that makes sense - these things aren't easy to describe! :-)
Well you took a "good stab" at explaining. Again, this 'space' won't automatically happen when realisation happens. Many years of believing that I am an "I" doesn't disappear overnight. .....That all said, clearly seeing this is life changing.

So here are some extra house keeping bits:

1. Please try to post daily, or at least every second day.(unless I have given you an exercise for longer).
This needs consistency. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know.

I will also reply daily, if I am going to be unavailable, I will let you know too.

2. Please answer 100% what's true for you once you have looked to see what is being pointed at, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Ideal answers won't help you to get a clear realisation that there is no separate self. There is no one here judging answers given, just someone looking to see how to best direct you next.

3. This exploration is based on LOOKING at your actual/direct experience (AE/DE) (I tend to use the terms interchangeably) of what is happening right now i.e. - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts.

Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. It helps to put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. Be here with an open and curious mind. ( I speak from personal experience that pondering philosophically and trying to 'map' this on to previous experiences, just delays the inquiry.) This also means not asking philosophical questions of your guide on this forum, however you don't understand the instruction please ask questions until you do.

5. Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

6. Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer ALL questions that I have written in blue text.

Thanks for your replies and I appreciate your reading the links, including the disclaimer; and learning how to use the quote function so quickly.

Just so that we are clear, to have the realisation that there is no separate self, you must be 100% committed to seeing it. It can’t be a nice idea, an intellectual curiosity. You have got to pursue this as if you have no other choice.

One other question, I know I said I needed a couple of weeks, but actually I think I am ready to start if you are.... are you?

Taran x
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:05 pm

Hi Taran

Thanks for your message
I think I am ready to start if you are.... are you?
yes I am ready to start :-)
How would being separate from the I identification feel and look?
I get a sense of it. It probably looks from the outside (to others) as being calmer, just the same but maybe with less attachment to a sense of ego - more open to 'what is' more open to anything in the moment rather than trying to direct things.

It feels as if something is surrendered and held by 'the universe' or all energy or something like that. It feels that something vast can be trusted - something way beyond the individual. It feels as if I know and experience that I am part of something all inclusive. I am not alone.

Vx

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:31 pm

Dear V
How would being separate from the I identification feel and look?
I get a sense of it. It probably looks from the outside (to others) as being calmer, just the same but maybe with less attachment to a sense of ego - more open to 'what is' more open to anything in the moment rather than trying to direct things.
Well you may appear calmer to others and you may not. Often people can be more irritated or attached to certain outcomes when the first realise they aren't a separate individual making the decisions the way they used to believe.... there will certainly be a less self-identified state of being.



There is a big difference between knowing/feeling something conceptually or based upon past experience, compared to living that experience now....

e.g. If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Therefore specifically addressing your
It feels as if something is surrendered and held by 'the universe'
does it FEEL like that or is that just a thought?

Apologies for being a bit pedantic, but it is necessary for this process to get picky about language.

Taran x
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:31 am

Dear Taran

Thank you for your very clear And very understandable explanation. I get it completely and understand what’s necessary for this process. And I agree with you -
that you can only be 100% certain by looking.
So to answer your question:
does it FEEL like that or is that just a thought?
which refers to my saying that
It feels as if something is surrendered and held by 'the universe'
Something in me let’s go if the me-ness Of me and opens up the the me-ness that is expanded out into everything. It is most definitely a feeling and I can get to feel it (or access it, Ie bring my attention to it) pretty much anytime I want to. I kind of lean back in to to feel it, or open up to it to feel it. It’s definitely a feeling because it settles and soothes my whole body. It has been there for decades. It’s as if it’s a bit like a pillow that is behind me Or all around me that I can lean back into if/when I can let myself. Much of the time I do let myself. Or another way of describing it might be like a very strong indestructible thread which I can feel any time I want to when I put my attention to it or put my attention away from the things that distract me from it...but mostly it’s more I’d an enveloping feeling. The thread is more like a thought in that it’s not such a strong all over body feeling.

The things that stop or interrupt my access to this feeling are things such as uncomfortable feelings in my body Evoked by echos of past trauma. But maybe its more likely the unpleasant thoughts which trigger those uncomfortable feelings.

That was a rather long answer to a very simple question. But basically the answer to your question is YES it’s a feeling. It’s subtle but it’s strong and it’s always there and mostly accessible.

It’s a bit like my pulse or my breathing or my heaart pumping, it’s always there I just need to put my attention to it in order to fully feel it.

Love V x

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Hi V
“That was a rather long answer to a very simple question. But basically the answer to your question is YES it’s a feeling. It’s subtle but it’s strong and it’s always there and mostly accessible.

It’s a bit like my pulse or my breathing or my heart pumping, it’s always there I just need to put my attention to it in order to fully feel it.”
Firstly, to be clear I do understand the sort of experience you are talking about. So no more explanation required, but we need to really observe in any given moment what is happening as we proceed in this process.

You will find that “feeling” isn’t actually found in direct experience, it is a word we use as an extrapolation of what is happening.

What is actually happening is either sensation or thought (thought can be words and images).... and of course there can be sensations, which we then add thoughts to, e.g. labelling an experience a “feeling”.

This needs to be clear before proceeding. Because also believing in the separate self is another extrapolation....but your example is much clearer to see. Is this clear? Ensuring this is clear is important before we start.

Taran xx
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:02 am

Hi Taran,
Is this clear?
What you are saying seems clear to me.

So I’m wondering whether my word - feeling - might have the same meaning for me as your word - sensation - has for you. ?

If I say that I’m feeling something, what I actually mean is that I’m sensing it in that moment. I’m using the word ‘feeling’ to mean something that I’m ‘sensing’ and directly experiencing In that moment.

However having said that I’m wondering about the difference between sensation and sensing. Is there something here that I might be missing? I’m talking about sensing something really subtle, like subtle energy, rather than sensing an actual physical sensation.

V x

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:07 am

Hi V

It might be clearer for you if we get back to that sensing and first have a look at what direct experience is.

So let's have our first exercise.....

I would like you to sit somewhere quiet and become aware of sounds. Close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes. Really hear them.

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? And make sure that the sound is something you will hear again, for the next phase of this exercise.

I look forward to hearing what you find.

Taran x
Love says "I am everything." Wisdom says "I am nothing." Between the two, my life flows. (Nisargadatta)


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