Seems I could use a hand here

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Luchana
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:53 am

Hi Tannis,
This feeling, is a thought. I don't catch the self taking ownership, after a decision, but, I cannot find any decision except as a thought......coming from wherever (nothing, nowhere, and gone into nothing, nowhere)
you did a good looking
Its just a thought. Its not real.
yep, it's just a thought :-)
The only difference, which is not 100% of the time, is action is often taken, but not always, after decision type of thought.
Is there a difference between "decision type of thought" and usual type of thought?
If yes, what precisely?

There is no feeling, sensation. I can see thoughts more clearly, as , non existent.....there is no sensation to them. I have to keep looking here, as there is resistance to no decisions.
Ok. with these exercises and looking we are focusing how exactly the decision is happening. It's essential to see the difference between reality/experience and THOUGHTS ABOUT reality. We are learning to distinguish between reality (experience) and imagination (thought). And you are starting to see this, just keep on going :-)

Let's make another very simple excercise now

Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air.

And now be very, very vigilant. Don't rely on thoughts, examine the immediacy of your own experience.

Do this as many times as it's possible and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

What is it exactly that is raising the hand?

Can a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing be found?

Can a ‘decision maker’ of any description be located?


Make this as many time as it's possible during the day, but also investigate in the simple activities - what to eat, what to dress, what to read..etc. Incorporate looking in the midst of your daily life.
Nothing. Its just ...dreaming. I don't have clarity here. I will look some more.
What ever is typing, sitting here, listening to a dog barking, performs daydreaming, experiences daydreaming.
I feel confused, I am not clear, and certain of things, but I have questions to look at. I answer, but for sure I feel I don't have answers, and, have more LOOKING to do. I don't answer the questions and assume they are "done".
It is very simple. Just look.

Can a doer be found doing all these?

Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:07 am

Hello Luchana,
Is there a difference between "decision type of thought" and usual type of thought?
If yes, what precisely?
No. Types of thought, memory, anticipation, dread of something, decision, are all thoughts, and not real.
Yesterday, I said decisions are often followed by action, which I thought distinguished them, but, quite simply, without "thinking" involved, decisions are also, just thoughts.
Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air.

And now be very, very vigilant. Don't rely on thoughts, examine the immediacy of your own experience.

Do this as many times as it's possible and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
First, I thought I am deciding, and following the decisions about which hand. When I reread your email, I saw you specified,"don't rely on thoughts", so tried without thinking to do the exercise.

Without thinking, I don't know, and cannot predict which hand will be raised.
What is it exactly that is raising the hand?
So, I don't know what is raising the hand. It does happen ....automatically......just, a touch, before thinking comes in.
Can a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing be found?
There is no one, no individual, or any kind of chooser that is found.
Can a ‘decision maker’ of any description be located?
There is no chooser, decision maker located.

It is very simple. Just look.

Can a doer be found doing all these?
A doer would be a chooser, decision maker. It can't be found.

I will keep going with this exercise. Even though I have these answers above, I need to experience this, lack of choosing more. It doesn't just completely, eliminate my....resistance.

Thank you,

Tannis

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Luchana
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:17 pm

Hi Tannis,
No. Types of thought, memory, anticipation, dread of something, decision, are all thoughts, and not real.
Yesterday, I said decisions are often followed by action, which I thought distinguished them, but, quite simply, without "thinking" involved, decisions are also, just thoughts.
you did a good investigation.
First, I thought I am deciding, and following the decisions about which hand. When I reread your email, I saw you specified,"don't rely on thoughts", so tried without thinking to do the exercise.
It is essential. I will repeat - do not rely on thought, but look directly what is here present at your experience. With looking clarity comes.
Without thinking, I don't know, and cannot predict which hand will be raised.
Does a thought have a power to predict?
Does e thought "I will raise the left hand" has a power to raise the left hand?
Does e thought "I will raise the right hand" has a power ro raise to right hand?
What is raising the hands?


I will keep going with this exercise. Even though I have these answers above, I need to experience this, lack of choosing more. It doesn't just completely, eliminate my....resistance.
The resistance is here for some reason. Can you acknowledge it and ask for its wisdom. Sit quietly and simply ask the resistance why is here. And listen.

What message does it bring?


What woud I suggest is to continue looking in the dayly life with the simple activities. Life brings so many possiilities - make use of them. Here are some more questions for you to explore while investigate decision and choice.

Is there a place where these decisions/choices come from?

Look for the point where the decision was made.

Is it possible to find such a point?

Can a source be found?


Dig deep

Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:52 am

Hello Luchana,

I will take some more time tomorrow to look for answers to your questions, and, have some "quiet" time to look into my resistance.

Thank you so much!

Tannis

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Luchana
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Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:29 am

Hey Tannis,
of course. Take your time.
No rush.

Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:06 am

Hello Luchana,


Mmmm, I am not finished with looking into "choice and "decisions", but here are some thoughts. (I mean, "answers". No thoughts/thinking allowed, I know!)
Does a thought have a power to predict?
No, thoughts have no power to predict, or even to think in any way.....they don't feel either.
Does e thought "I will raise the left hand" has a power to raise the left hand?
No, and even after I understand a "decision" has been made, it doesn't mean action will follow. (For example, exercising tomorrow)
I tried to think " I will raise the right, or left" but the thought didn't determine the action. The thought has no "muscle" behind it , to actually accomplish an activity or action.


Does e thought "I will raise the right hand" has a power ro raise to right hand?
No, right or left, the thoughts are powerless to actually "move" muscles.

What is raising the hands?
I don't know what is causing the action of the muscles to move the hands.
The resistance is here for some reason. Can you acknowledge it and ask for its wisdom. Sit quietly and simply ask the resistance why is here. And listen.

What message does it bring?
Well, what I understand is there is resistance because, if "I " don't make choices, and control myself, "I" will behave irresponsibly. - succumb to my lazy nature, never clean, (clean even less than happens currently,) eat chocolate, ice cream, brownies, go on a shopping spree, and so on.

What woud I suggest is to continue looking in the dayly life with the simple activities. Life brings so many possiilities - make use of them. Here are some more questions for you to explore while investigate decision and choice.
Is there a place where these decisions/choices come from?

I can't find a place where they come from, as they come from the same "nowhere" kind of place that thoughts come from, as they are types of thoughts.
Look for the point where the decision was made.
Is it possible to find such a point?
I cannot pinpoint the time or place that any thought arrives, or from where.

Can a source be found?

No, I cannot find a source! I find it quite amazing, that everything is arising, without coming from anyplace, or anything, that I can find.
Perhaps , this should not be so amazing, as , when I try to imagine that they could arrive from a place, or thing, that idea is even stranger.

In any case, what I find with the choice, decisions, is they are just thoughts.....nothing to them when I looks closely at any thought.
I haven't found any real thoughts. Even if there is a "thing" that I think about, which seems like a "real concern", it's not with me here and now , as I type this.

I am continuing the search.........to look at choices, decisions, and, my "self". So far.........nothing.

Thank you!

tannis

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Luchana
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Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:15 pm

Hi Tannis,

just a quick message, that I will be able to write more tomorrow.
Keep looking at choice.

Much love.
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:25 am

no worries........i have a lot of looking to do.

take care

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Luchana
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Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:56 pm

Hi Tannis,
Mmmm, I am not finished with looking into "choice and "decisions", but here are some thoughts. (I mean, "answers". No thoughts/thinking allowed, I know!)
It is not that they are not allowed, but they simply cannot help.
No, thoughts have no power to predict, or even to think in any way.....they don't feel either.
you did a good looking
No, and even after I understand a "decision" has been made, it doesn't mean action will follow. (For example, exercising tomorrow)
I tried to think " I will raise the right, or left" but the thought didn't determine the action. The thought has no "muscle" behind it , to actually accomplish an activity or action.
and this also is a good looking

Well, what I understand is there is resistance because, if "I " don't make choices, and control myself, "I" will behave irresponsibly. - succumb to my lazy nature, never clean, (clean even less than happens currently,) eat chocolate, ice cream, brownies, go on a shopping spree, and so on.
I understand. Lovely message it brings.
Can you thank the resistance for taking care of these? Yes, it has a right to be here, to resist. It did a great job.
Now when you accept it ask again what is it that it wants to protect so deeply?

Is there something which really needs protection?

Take a good look.
I can't find a place where they come from, as they come from the same "nowhere" kind of place that thoughts come from, as they are types of thoughts.
I cannot pinpoint the time or place that any thought arrives, or from where.
No, I cannot find a source! I find it quite amazing, that everything is arising, without coming from anyplace, or anything, that I can find.
Perhaps , this should not be so amazing, as , when I try to imagine that they could arrive from a place, or thing, that idea is even stranger.
You did a very good looking here as well!

Yes, it it quite amazing. You start to see how things are in reality and this is amazing :-)

Here is a short video for you to watch. It's an interesting experiment. But don't go into science and thinking about it to much :-)

https://vimeo.com/90101368?fbclid=IwAR0 ... 3l9iO4lzTc


And some questions to look:

Is there a chooser?

A general manager, which chooses?

Look at the body

Is it the body which chooses?

Or choises just happen, without no one to choose them?



Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:56 am

Hello Luchana,

I have just read your email, and am getting ready for bed. I am looking forward to the video.

If you ever need a break, or are busy, I will never stop looking! It's for ME to do, and I will!

I have a list of questions, ,things to look further at, contemplate, dig up, look for this self. I am occupied with this, even if I can't talk with you for a couple days.

I really appreciate that this forum exists, and that you have offered to help others , myself included. It's been over a month now, so, I don't know how that fits in with what you might anticipate for a time commitment. I don't know that an expectation of some sort of time to "complete" this would do anything except stress me out and put pressure on the process. I'm not going to think about my speed at getting this. I will just .....continue. I really do appreciate all your efforts, and I just have no choice, ha! But to keep going with this.

Your ongoing questions, and pointing everyday help to keep the investigation focussed as I have never experienced before.

I will consider the questions tomorrow, then write in the evening.

Thank you for all your efforts! I am very thankful to be in this discussion with you!

Tannis

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Luchana
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:25 am

Hi Tannis,

You don't have to worry at all, although I understand these worries.
This whole process brings so much joy here for me. How can I be bored or get tired from the only thing that matters?
And your freedom is not more important than my time. It will take as long as it will take. There is no timing involved at all.

And it is very good that you can see the expectations here.

So relax, take deep breath and enjoy the ride :-)


Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:16 am

Hello Luchana,
Can you thank the resistance for taking care of these? Yes, it has a right to be here, to resist. It did a great job.
Now when you accept it ask again what is it that it wants to protect so deeply?
It's just itself that it wants to protect, to keep existing. But, there is nothing there. It is nothing, so there is nothing to protect.
Is there something which really needs protection?
No, there's nothing needing protection. It as an idea, which wasn't real to begin with. It cannot be found now. So, nothing needs protection.
Take a good look.
Is there a chooser?
There is no chooser. Somehow, a choice appears, happens.

A general manager, which chooses?
A person, chooser, manager, worker, .....no one can be found doing this job.

Look at the body
Is it the body which chooses?
The body isn't choosing, even though, at times it is acting on a choice ......it is not involved in choosing at all. It's making as many choices as the pen I hold, or pillow that's behind my back.......it's just , there.
Or choises just happen, without no one to choose them?

That is very wild. Choice just happens......without a person choosing. I am not choosing.
I will keep looking here, as even though I say no one is choosing, it's very strange.

Thank you!

tannis

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Luchana
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Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:34 pm

Hi Tannis,
It's just itself that it wants to protect, to keep existing. But, there is nothing there. It is nothing, so there is nothing to protect.
Ok, let's try again with the resistance. Feel the resistance again, thank it for doing it's best to protect. Literally say "thank you, resistance". After accepting resistance's great job ask it what does it really long for.
What is it?
Akcept also this message and ask it - is it ready to receive it now?

It is important to release the tension that resistance brings, because it can be hindrance on a way.
No, there's nothing needing protection. It as an idea, which wasn't real to begin with. It cannot be found now. So, nothing needs protection.
Do you see this experientally that there is nothing that needs protection?

There is no chooser. Somehow, a choice appears, happens.
A person, chooser, manager, worker, .....no one can be found doing this job.
Good job :-)
The body isn't choosing, even though, at times it is acting on a choice ......it is not involved in choosing at all. It's making as many choices as the pen I hold, or pillow that's behind my back.......it's just , there.
Ok, let's dig deeper:

Is it the body that experiences, or is the body, too, experienced?

That is very wild. Choice just happens......without a person choosing. I am not choosing.
I will keep looking here, as even though I say no one is choosing, it's very strange.
And is there anyone who thought he was choosing and now understands that the choice is happening?

Look in the immediate experixe, right here, right now.

Can that one be found with one of the sences?

No thoughts, no imagination, no theory.
Just the simple facts.

Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.

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Raquelflight
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Raquelflight » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:35 am

Hello Luchana,
Ok, let's try again with the resistance. Feel the resistance again, thank it for doing it's best to protect. Literally say "thank you, resistance". After accepting resistance's great job ask it what does it really long for.
What is it?
To stop, to give up resisting.
Akcept also this message and ask it - is it ready to receive it now?
Yes, it would be a relief.
Do you see this experientally that there is nothing that needs protection?
I see this experientially, there is nothing to protect. Seeing this, is not constant , though it is more frequent, than weeks ago. All the energy, to protect nothing......even if there was something/someone...it wouldn't be possible to protect it.

Every once in awhile, when I sense there is no choice, that "I" can make, I feel a physical relaxing, sense of relief .
Is it the body that experiences, or is the body, too, experienced?
The body is experienced.
And is there anyone who thought he was choosing and now understands that the choice is happening?
The "self" is taking credit for seeing this, as though, "I"get a point for gaining this understanding. "Oh, I am not making the choice." "I see". There are a lot of "I" thoughts, even though, I try throughout the day to find a person, and , there are just stories.......I never find anything I can sense.
Can that one be found with one of the sences?
That one, the understand er, ex-chooser, point-gainer.....cannot be found with any senses.

Thank you,

Tannis

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Luchana
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Postby Luchana » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:38 pm

Hi Tannis,
Ok, let's try again with the resistance. Feel the resistance again, thank it for doing it's best to protect. Literally say "thank you, resistance". After accepting resistance's great job ask it what does it really long for.
What is it?
To stop, to give up resisting.
Akcept also this message and ask it - is it ready to receive it now?
Yes, it would be a relief.
Good job :-)
Each sensation which is present can be heard in this way.
I see this experientially, there is nothing to protect. Seeing this, is not constant , though it is more frequent, than weeks ago. All the energy, to protect nothing......even if there was something/someone...it wouldn't be possible to protect it.

Every once in awhile, when I sense there is no choice, that "I" can make, I feel a physical relaxing, sense of relief .

Oh, that is beautiful to experience, after a long time contaction and tension trying to keep things/choises/desicion in control.
And more clarity comes with more looking.

Is there anyone or anything which can sometimes sense and sometimes not?
What can be this?
And where?

The "self" is taking credit for seeing this, as though, "I"get a point for gaining this understanding. "Oh, I am not making the choice." "I see". There are a lot of "I" thoughts, even though, I try throughout the day to find a person, and , there are just stories.......I never find anything I can sense.
Good.

So, self, the I thought has some super power? To take credit for example?
Is this possible? Take a look.

Who or what is doing the seeing?

Is there a Tannis doing the seeing?

Is there a "me" seeing?

And is there an expectation that thoughts will stop appearing?


Much love,
Luchana
Remember. You're dreaming.


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