now

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

now

Postby Majid » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:41 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I guess it's about "Self" as an non-existed entity, just a name. I saw it (no separation), I understand it, but this "self" come back again and again, may be after many years of being in habit with this image/self, I can not realize and stay in the reality easily, for now and here. It persist to exist and keep attending most of the times.

What are you looking for at LU?
I think that if you pass the way with the help and recommendations of the experienced people that already passed the same way then it would be saving in time, avoiding tiredness, and may prevent or reduce mistakes and confusions.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I do not know exactly. But I know that if one who intend to have a journey, seek guide from a person that already have passed the same journey, then most probably will receive some good guidelines or advises that helping him to have his journey more useful, safe and sound. and avoid traps and lost.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
- Attending in TM 5 days course on 1996.
- Attending in Vipassane 10 days course on Meditation in INDIA on 2018.
- Everyday 20 minutes meditation on breath, sensations, emotions, thoughts and emptiness.
- Reading "TAO TE CHING" and books about Taoism.
- Reading books from Krishna Murti.
- Reading Rumi poems in original language (Persian is my mother tongue)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:37 pm

Hi Madjid

I am here to help you to see through the illusion of self. It is your inquiry, you need to be 100% honest in your replies and your looking at direct experience. We speak about direct experience which is known through the five senses : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching (sensations). There are also thoughts : labeling thoughts, story thoughts about you, about others, liky thoughts, unliky thoughts, thoughts about the job or whatever thoughts.

During this dialog, the looking is about direct experience, thoughts are subsidiary here.

You have to stop reading books about spirituality, nor listening audios nor watching videos. You can continue your meditation when it is well done.

What are your motivations in jumping here in the forum ? What changes are you expecting to happen after having seen the fallacy of a separate self?

Can you describe what you think you are at this very moment ?

NB : use the quote function for each question before answering to it.

Warissem

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:03 am

Dear warissem,
Hi, thank you very much for your valuable time.
Q1: “What are your motivations in jumping here in the forum?”
A1: After reading “Liberation unleashed” book, I came to conclusion that this forum would be helpful to guide people who are seeking for reality.
Q2: “What changes are you expecting to happen after having seen the fallacy of a separate self?”
A2: I’m not sure about it, but any changes happen in the direction of freedom from fakes is appreciated. Any changes coming after deletion of sense of separate “self” would be good since it’s real not fake. And understanding the reality will give the sense of freedom.
Q3: “Can you describe what you think you are at this very moment?”
A3: At the moment I am switching between 2 modes. First mode is usual separate “self” and is routine of my life as far as I remember. Mode 2, started from few days ago after reading “Liberation unleashed” book and happens rarely, just few seconds sometimes, and is like feeling that there is no separate “I”, seeing all things as unique and there is no start and no end to anything. Also with the feeling of lightness inside by body. I’m not sure what it is.
I am eagerly awaiting your response. Regards,

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:28 pm

Hi Madjid
At the moment I am switching between 2 modes. First mode is usual separate “self” and is routine of my life as far as I remember. Mode 2, started from few days ago after reading “Liberation unleashed” book and happens rarely, just few seconds sometimes, and is like feeling that there is no separate “I”, seeing all things as unique and there is no start and no end to anything. Also with the feeling of lightness inside by body. I’m not sure what it is.
I am eagerly awaiting your response. Regards,

You are welcome. First you need to learn how to use the quote function here :
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660


The 2 modes of functioning will continue even after seeing through the illusion of a separate self. The difference is in the belief of a separate self or not. We will explore all this together till you see through the fallacy beliefs of a separate self.


What comes up when I say : there is no separate self, no you in any shape or form, it has never been, it will never be.
Let this sink for a day then give a reply.

Best wishes, Warissem

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:04 am

Dear Warrisem,

I appreciate your helpful comments.
What comes up when I say : there is no separate self, no you in any shape or form, it has never been, it will never be.
Well, I understand that there is no separate “self”, it’s proven especially recently with the good psychological and physiological evidences. But I still feel the “self” inside, inhabitant in my head, looking to the things around, hearing, touching and now is striking on the keyboard. I mean that I intellectually agree and understand quickly that the “self” does not exist, but “Self” story is still running and functioning behind the scene most of the times.

Regards,

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:49 pm

Hi Madjid
Well, I understand that there is no separate “self”, it’s proven especially recently with the good psychological and physiological evidences. But I still feel the “self” inside, inhabitant in my head, looking to the things around, hearing, touching and now is striking on the keyboard. I mean that I intellectually agree and understand quickly that the “self” does not exist, but “Self” story is still running and functioning behind the scene most of the times.

Look in direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations) and write back if you found a self inside your head ?

Is looking and seeing happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the seeing?
Is hearing happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the hearing?
Is touching happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the touching?
Is striking on the keyboard happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do it?

Your understanding of no self is a good thing but you have to see for yourself. The story of you won't cease even after seeing through the illusion of self.

Important : you need to be attentive and look at what is happening, don’t answer from what you know.

Best wishes, Warissem

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:26 am

Hi Warrisem,

Thanks for massage,
I need going into it. I will back after sometime.

Regards,

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:57 am

Hi Madjid

Take your time to look at what is going on.
Are thoughts arising or is there a you making them arise ?

Warissem

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:24 am

Dear Warrisem,

Hi, I hope you are doing fine, Thank you for the answer.
Are thoughts arising or is there a you making them arise ?
Thoughts are arising and looks autonomous. They come and go without my control. I can observe it. I already thought that I am the creator and owner of the thoughts with full control over them, but it's incorrect. It's another thought that exists but is incorrect.

Regards,

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:51 pm

Hi Madjid
Thoughts are arising and looks autonomous. They come and go without my control. I can observe it. I already thought that I am the creator and owner of the thoughts with full control over them, but it's incorrect. It's another thought that exists but is incorrect.
Yes, you've made good observations. Let's come back to a previous post and the question is :


Look in direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations) and write back if you found a self inside your head ?

Is looking and seeing happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the seeing?
Is hearing happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the hearing?
Is touching happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the touching?
Is striking on the keyboard happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do it?


Best wishes, Warissem

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:58 am

Dear Warissem,

Thank You,
Look in direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations) and write back if you found a self inside your head ?
No, There is no “I” or “Self”. All are happening.
Is looking and seeing happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the seeing?
Is hearing happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the hearing?
Is touching happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do the touching?
Is striking on the keyboard happening or is there a need of an “I” or a self to do it?
No need to a self or "I" for happening since self does not exist and is not real. But if “seeing” means perceiving by eyes then there is the need for a doer to perform the seeing, it could be an electronic sensor along with a processor like parts of our brain. I mean that seeing is not happening by itself. But perceiving is happening as well, there is no need to any “I” as separate perceiver. The perceiving is the result of communication and coordination between different part of nervous system in my brain and spinal cord and the rest of my organs. But again, there is no need for any separate “Communicator” or “Coordinator”. This argument can go on as far as I can, and ultimately see that there is there is no separate doer, whatever it is, seeing, listening, typing,
Like an actor who is so engrossed in his role that he forgets that he is just acting. Then they do not play a role but live in that role. Some who find themselves in this situation never return to reality. The line between true and false fades and the two merge. That is confusion, my current situation, feel in the space in between, in suspension, who is in charge now?

Best Regards
Majid

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 am

PS:
who is in charge now?
Nobody, its happening, all is happening now, there is no "I", "Self", "Controller", "In charge"...

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:10 pm

Hi Madjid


Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

What where the changes from the beginning of this dialog till now ?

Feel free to add anything about this investigation.

Best wishes

Warissem

User avatar
Majid
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:39 am

Re: now

Postby Majid » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:20 am

Dear Warissem,

Thank you very much for the answer,
Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?
I have no doubt about "self illusion" at my conscious level. I understand this issue logically and based on reason and proof and even scientific evidence, but I'm a little confused. I understand this intellectually, but I find it difficult to see it deeply and beyond consciousness level. I think that does not mean seeing, I'm not sure.
I was thinking of an analogy this morning. I'm drowning in a swamp. In the meantime I have vast information about the characteristics of the swamp. I know what the material is made of, how deep it is, the other dimensions, how much viscosity, what its geographical location is, , and other types of information. But none of this helps me get out of the swamp. So what will help me? Then I thought to myself, the point is that neither the swamp nor I exist. Then I thought, there is no swamp at all, "I" as a separate entity do not exist either. This may be an unrealistic and illusionary story created by the brain to keep me in the illusion of the self and bring me back to my main mission, survival and reproduction.
What where the changes from the beginning of this dialog till now ?
I appreciate and thanks for our dialog and your valuable time. I feel improvement at intellectual level.

Regards,
Majid

User avatar
warissem
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: now

Postby warissem » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:13 pm

Hi Madjid

I have no doubt about "self illusion" at my conscious level. I understand this issue logically and based on reason and proof and even scientific evidence, but I'm a little confused. I understand this intellectually, but I find it difficult to see it deeply and beyond consciousness level. I think that does not mean seeing, I'm not sure.

You say "I find it difficult to see it deeply and beyond consciousness level"
What do you mean by "to see deeply" : are there two modes of seeing, seeing deeply and seeing on the surface? When I ask you to look at a sun in midnight, can you give the answer from a direct seeing ? (which is not a deep seeing nor a seeing on the surface).
I don't understand what you mean by "conscious level", is another level we don't know?

You also said : "I think that does not mean seeing. I am not sure."
That does mean only seeing. The truth reveals itself in the seeing.
Can you write down what are you expecting after the seeing ?

About the story of a swamp, you concluded it with truth :" there is no swamp at all, "I" as a separate entity do not exist either."

I think, you are doubting the seeing because it is so simple. Are you expecting something special? If so, feel free to elaborate on that and we can clarify things together. Put down all your doubts on it.

A little illustration : there was a chikh (master) who told his disciple to bring him a bottle of water from his room (chikh's room). The disciple get to the room and saw two bottles. He came back to his chikh and said : there are two bottles, which of them I bring to you, that on the right or that on the left? The chikh gave to him a stick and said : break down one of them and bring the other to me. The disciple get to the room for a second time, break the bottle of the left, the two bottles broke down. He came back confused to the chikh with no water and said the two bottles broke down when I hit one of them. Conclusion : there was only one bottle and the disciple has squint eyes.

Best wishes

Warissem


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests