V: So can you lose control that you never had?
M: I have a sense of relief reading this. I don't have control. There is no separate me to have control. Stuff happens.
No I can't lose control I never had. (But there's some nagging resistance/belief in that control).
Isn’t that nagging belief just a thought in loop? Like a broken record? Just keep repeating itself?
Yes - it pops up on its own repeatedly.
Have you noticed that most of your thoughts are recycled? Meaning that many of our thoughts are the same thoughts again and again and again, day by day??
Like the thought of “there is a belief in control”?
Are you the thinker of the thought “there is a resistance or belief in control”?
ok looking at it now. This morning I had some work cancelled which I may or may not get paid for - which led to thoughts about sorting out my finances together with together with thoughts about me doing it - making effort and some sensations of contraction.
the thoughts about sorting out my finances just happened. They popped up spontaneously no doubt about that. The I must make effort though/feeling/sensation followed spontaneously. They just appeared.
There are sensation labelled as me but when I look and ask is this you? (been doing a lot last few days) the clear answer is no.
The more I repeat this question - is this you? or Is this me (the controller, the inherent self) the more it sinks in.
Are you making this thought to appear? How?
No I am not making any thoughts appear.
How do you decide to think this thought?
I do not decide for it come up.
Can you know in advance, BEFORE this thought appearing that you are going to think the thought of “I have a belief in control”?
no def not.
Dig deep here. It’s not just a belief in control.
It’s a belief that I am the thinker too. But are you?
As I read this and start to write there is a thought yes that I am the thinker/writer doer.
But when I look for me I find physical sensations and emotions and more thoughts.
Sometimes the thoughts are fearful - what will happen if you let go.
When I ask is this you? (about the sensations/thoughts and emotions) I get the clear answer - no.
So I cannot find a thinker of the belief thoughts.
Have you ever thought any thought? Ever?
this thought produces some fear - (fear of disappearing).
When I look at the fear - its nothing really.
So far I have no evidence that I have thought anything. (saying this seems like a big statement but true).
As I write the I feeling is there and I forget this until i ask again - is this you (about the I thought/feeling).
Or you just know or aware of thoughts when they happen (on their own)?
Yes this is what I have found.
I fear what will happen if I don't pay attention to these problems (they will get worse).
You are assuming that when there is a paying attention to a particular problem then that is your doing.
Yes that exactly it
But what if it’s not? What if paying attention and trying to solve problems have ALWAYS happened on their own? And the thought of “I did it” just been added AFTER?
let me look at this some more - (I mean automatically solving problems)
The thought of “I’ve done it” is like a subtitle over a movie. Actions happen in the movie, but the actions are not done by the subtitle / narrative / thought.
The thought of “I’ve done it” is just a thought narration over action happening.
And this narration also just happens.
You assume that when there is the thought "it's important and urgent" then this is thought was thought by you.
That you had decided to think this thought BEFORE the thought appeared.
You assume that you are the author of thoughts. That you think whatever you want to think.
But all of these are just assumptions, which are thoughts appearing on their own too.
Don’t believe me. Just check this out.
yes yes I can see this is the problem. Let me look at this some more and get back to you :)
Thanks again Vivien,