Chris's thread

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:21 am

Hi Chris,
C: This feeling of looking out from my eyes is still there. I see that this sensation is not me but that I attach the concept of me to it.
V: OK. Just stay with this feeling.
Sit with this feeling, nothing special, a feeling like all the other feelings.
Sit for a moment with the feeling, purely as a feeling.
As it's a feeling, feel it. It has no name, nor needs one.

What happens when you just sit with this feeling behind the eyes, but without naming it or calling it anything?
C: Sorry but I’m not really getting this pointer. I’m sure I’m doing it right but nothing really happens when I just sit with the feeling. I’ll try again tomorrow.
You said that there is a feeling of looking out from your eyes with a concept of it being me, who looks out of the eyes.
You say it’s a feeling or a sensation.

Now I’m asking you to FEEL this sensation, but without calling it “I am looking out of my eyes”.
Without naming it or labelling it being me, who is looking out of the eyes.

This is nothing else than a sensation, but you are believing that this is more than just a plain, everyday sensation. You believe that this sensation behind the eyes is YOU.

So I’m asking you to stop calling this sensation as me or I.
Just feel it, as a plain sensation, no different than the sensations of your feet.

What happens when you just sit with this feeling behind the eyes, but without naming it or calling it anything?

Is there any difference (any at all) between the sensations of your feet and the sensations behind the eyes?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:46 pm

Hi Vivien

I had better luck with it today
Is there any difference (any at all) between the sensations of your feet and the sensations behind the eyes?
No, it’s no more special than any other sensation. It’s insignificant when I look at it in this way. It feels like a dot. It isn’t doing anything; it’s in no way responsible for seeing, thinking, feeling etc.
I think it might just be the focal point of my eyesight. Vision is such a big part of experience so this might be why I would normally put so much weight on this particular aspect of it. I’ll keep going over it.

Chris

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:19 am

Hi Chris,
No, it’s no more special than any other sensation. It’s insignificant when I look at it in this way. It feels like a dot. It isn’t doing anything; it’s in no way responsible for seeing, thinking, feeling etc.

When this regular sensation is just that, an ordinary sensation, with no name, nothing other than what it is (sensation), what happens to the idea of Chris then?

What happens with the idea of Chris when there is no sensation to land on and say “this is me”?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:59 pm

Hi Vivien

When this regular sensation is just that, an ordinary sensation, with no name, nothing other than what it is (sensation), what happens to the idea of Chris then?
What happens with the idea of Chris when there is no sensation to land on and say “this is me”?
It loses some weight, it’s sense of centrality; it becomes looser. The idea of Chris is just a bundle of beliefs, habits of thought etc. appearing unprompted by any central controller. The whole thing just becomes a floating idea. It no longer feels like me, just an idea or thought.
I’ll keep, doing it, it works quite well.

Thanks
Chris

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:09 pm

Working again tomorrow by the way so probably won’t get a chance to post anything. Speak Friday if not.

Thanks again

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:16 am

Hi Chris,

You did a nice investigation.
I’ll keep, doing it, it works quite well.
Yes, please do so, and keep me updated.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:48 pm

Hi Vivien
I’ve found this pointer very helpful, thank you. I think I’ve been seeing glimpses of it today. I see that thoughts are not owned, they just happen. It comes with a feeling of lightness and everything feels a bit strange. It’s hard to explain but I’m sure this is progress. It just doesn’t last long; I keep getting distracted and then losing it.
I can see that this feeling of looking out from behind my eyes is the feeling that thoughts and everything else land on. It’s the feeling that I call ‘I’ and it’s getting easier all the time to look at it as just a feeling.
Can I spend another day with this pointer? Unless you think it’s better to move on.
Chris

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:52 am

Hi Chris,
I can see that this feeling of looking out from behind my eyes is the feeling that thoughts and everything else land on. It’s the feeling that I call ‘I’ and it’s getting easier all the time to look at it as just a feeling.
Can I spend another day with this pointer? Unless you think it’s better to move on.
Yes, of course.
It comes with a feeling of lightness and everything feels a bit strange. It’s hard to explain but I’m sure this is progress.
The problem is that you are occupied with the notion of progress.
As if you could to go somewhere, or could to attain something.

Seeing that there is no separate self is not a progress. It might seem like that, but it’s never is.
Either it is seen in this very moment, or not. It’s that simple.

If you are focusing on the notion of progress then you are not doing the inquiry for the sake of an inquiry, to notice what is here now, but rather you are looking for a result, for a by-product.

So you are busy to be occupied by a result, a by-product.
And that’s just more thinking to gain something.
Chris just wants to gain something from this inquiry. He wants to get somewhere, to attain something.

But it’s not an attainment. It’s not something you get in the future.
Rather it’s a seeing NOW in this very moment that the one who wants to attain something, is just a fiction.

So focus your attention on Chris, who is after a progress.

Where is the one who wants progress?
Where is Chris in this very moment, who could achieve something in the future?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:43 pm

Hi Vivien
Where is the one who wants progress?
Where is Chris in this very moment, who could achieve something in the future?
Chris is a story and in that story there is an enlightenment to be achieved. That story or thought is happening now but it is just a thought.
There is no one here to achieve anything. There is achieving things but no one to claim the achievements. I look at my sensory experience and there is no one there; I look at my thoughts and there is only the idea of someone, of Chris.

Thanks
Chris

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:30 am

Hi Chris,
Let’s go back some questions we looked at before.

What do you do in order to think?
How do you make or birth a thought into existence?


Please deeply look into this. Make sure that there is no doubt left whether you are the thinker (who makes thoughts happen) or not.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:49 pm

Hi Vivien
What do you do in order to think?
How do you make or birth a thought into existence?

Please deeply look into this. Make sure that there is no doubt left whether you are the thinker (who makes thoughts happen) or not.
I do absolutely nothing. I’m very certain of this. Thoughts arise on their own, spontaneously. Even as I plan in my head what to write for this message, the sentences seem to come out of nowhere; there is no author of these words.
This is fascinating. I’ve been trying really hard to concentrate on all these pointers but I feel like I can see this easily now.

Thanks
Chris

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:50 am

Hi Chris,

You did a nice investigation.

Thoughts show up and tell a story.

But what is here underneath thinking?
Is there Chris without a story about Chris?
What drives the story about Chris?
Is Chris here right now?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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chrisaaa
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby chrisaaa » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:47 pm

Hi Vivien
Thoughts show up and tell a story.
But what is here underneath thinking?
Is there Chris without a story about Chris?
The person known as Chris is here, but the character that my mind has created is not; that is just a character in a story. This fictitious character is what I would normally mean when talking about myself. I make the mistake of thinking that this character/story is me, but ‘I’ do nothing to create it, it creates itself.
What drives the story about Chris?
It’s a narrative built up over the years from experiences and trained ways of thinking and reacting to things. It’s a self-generating story and embedded in it is the belief that it is in control, it is the driver of the organism, when in fact it is the other way around.
Is Chris here right now?
The story is still here, but Chris as he is normally conceived is not. Chris is just a fiction, a character. There’s nothing tangible that I can point to and say ‘this is Chris’. Even the story of Chris is more of an incoherent string of thoughts than a solid character. His attributes change day to day. One day he’s a wellspring of righteousness who’s right about everything all the time; the next he’s a useless mess who needs to get his life in order. Point being I can’t even give you a canonical, unalterable version of Chris because there isn’t one. There’s just a belief in a character called Chris who is living out a largely fabricated story. And that story isn’t me; I’ve just always believed that it is.

Thanks
Chris

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:48 am

Hi Chris,

You did a really nice investigation :)
The person known as Chris is here, but the character that my mind has created is not
What do you mean by “the person known as Chris is here”?
What does the word ‘person’ refer to in this sentence?

Please describe me this person as precisely as you can.

And that story isn’t me; I’ve just always believed that it is.
Nice.

So what are you then, if not the story of Chris?
Can you ever not be here?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Vivien
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Re: Chris's thread

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:43 am

I've just noticed that you missed an important pointer. That's why it's not a good idea to bulk-reply. It's easy to miss some important questions.

So here it is again?

What is here underneath thinking?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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