Trying to get it

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:04 pm

what is it that says “it’s easier to look at experience than it is to look at thoughts”?
I see quite clearly that it's "him".. It's like I could feel his character and limitations as if it were something else
Are thoughts an experience too?
This is the key point. As I'm more relaxed, I get more glimpses of this idea. But I do have to meditate on it
And what’s this thing that’s telling you “it’ll take a long time”? Who says that?
It's him. I don't have a better way to say it
Why is this accepted as truth? Is it true?
At the moment, I can see that this is accepted as truth based on his experience and limitations.. But it could also be just an opinion.

I have to meditate more on the "thoughts are experiences" thing which gives a different perspective on experience

Bofi
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:50 am

Thought is experienced - yes. But is the content of thought experienced? When you sit on a chair, do you actually experience a chair or is there just a feeling of pressure and you're seeing a specific colour/form when you look down?
Is there a chair? Or is it thoughts description of whats being experienced?

And about "thats him"..

Whats the difference between the story of a chair and the story of "him" who says all this stuff?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:54 pm

Ad I've read your reply I was ROFL ing..
Cool, supercool
I wouldn't trade this enquiry for a Lamborghini (but I would accept it, wheh 😄)

But as I see that that I doesn't exist I start saying like " "I" see that the I doesn't exist".. So this bastard keep recreating itself, like that Terminator 2 villain..

I should realize that the "I" doesn't exist, and the same is for the "I" that sees that

My thoughts say that this concept is deeply radicated, even if.. I know, they're just thoughts

Bofi
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:09 pm

But as I see that that I doesn't exist I start saying like " "I" see that the I doesn't exist"
You start saying that? Can you make it stop? Can you control what is being said?
I should realize that the "I" doesn't exist, and the same is for the "I" that sees that
Let's look at that. Where do you find the I when you search for it? Can you smell it? How does it feel like? What's its color?
Sit down and look for this damn I. Where is it?

What's the difference between "this is a chair" and "this is me" and "that story right there needs to go away"? What are similarities between those three statements?
My thoughts say that this concept is deeply radicated, even if.. I know, they're just thoughts
Exactly, they're just thoughts. Do they have any power or do they just appear and disappear whilst telling a story about how powerful and strong they are?

Do you see how there's a story about how another story is bad and needs to go away? That's pretty funny, isn't it? ;)
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:49 am

I can't see, touch or smell that "I".. But this concept is still present in my mind.
What's the difference between "this is a chair" and "this is me" and "that story right there needs to go away"? What are similarities between those three statements?
No difference, apparently.
The first two are an objective-subjective identification, while the third is an indication.
The first are just false, the third point towards an effect on the RELATIVE field.

Actually also what we are saying are just thoughts.. But from the relative point of view, they are useful tools towards a result.
So I can't discard all the thoughts as worthless.
Do you see how there's a story about how another story is bad and needs to go away? That's pretty funny, isn't it? ;)
Yes, but this story would lead to a real result.


Anyway, what I reflect the most on is what you said in some previous post.. That thoughts are just happening, not intentionally created

It means that as I'm trying to win a fight, to get a job, to win a race, all my effort is.. Just happening, and not intentional.
That's a revolutionary concept, and makes me think a lot.
Sometimes I feel that I'm close to get it, and my mind feels very thin, very transparent, very free..
Very.. Zen, I would say.
I try to get closer and closer to this view

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:52 am

It also reminds me of.. You know, that archery book, or martial Arts Zen stories or even Bruce Lee's advices in fighting

Bofi
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:38 am

Let's investigate more how thoughts show up.
Where do they come from? Do they always tell the truth? Can you know what the next thought will be before it arrives?
Are they given or are you doing the thinking?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:12 am

I see a new name.. Are you a different person? Any problem? 🙂

Anyway..
Where do they come from?
They seem to come from the activity of the mind, which seems unstoppable
Do they always tell the truth?
Of course not
Can you know what the next thought will be before it arrives?
I should investigate more.. But my first reply is no
Are they given or are you doing the thinking?
This is crucial, and difficult to respond.
I always thought that I'm doing the thinking.. But after reasoning here, I'm starting to question this idea.
As said, the idea that thoughts spontaneously arise question my concept of free will, but I'm starting to think this way.
Prior to question the "I", my first meditation is to detach from thoughts, as they were someone else's.
It's particularly interesting for thoughts that involve a strong will or involvement, like winning a fight or a project, or love.
So who's striving to win, who's in love? A reflection? Interesting

Bofi
Posts: 88
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:28 am

I changed my name, but I'm still the same person. If I gave up, I'd tell you. ;)
I'll answer later today or maybe tomorrow.

Until then please have a closer look at this question: Where do thoughts come from?
Sure enough, they show up and disappear after a little while. But where the heck did they come from? Don't trust them if they wanna give you the answer. As you said, they're not always truthful. Just look at the next thought and tell me where it came from and where it went afterwards. Just observe. Don't try to interpret.

Oh and maybe… finding nothing is an answer too…? :) Have a nice day.
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

Bofi
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Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:02 am

So who's striving to win, who's in love? A reflection?
Let's rephrase that. Does it need an I for love to be felt? Does it need an I for having the urge to win something?

Thoughts can tell you that they possess something but … can they possess anything at all?
Can a thought possess a feeling?
Can a thought even know what a feeling is?


Can a thought know anything…?

And is the I more than other thoughts? Does it have power?
I always thought that I'm doing the thinking.. But after reasoning here, I'm starting to question this idea.
Can a thought think other thoughts?

And please do this little exercise:

Choose a number between 1 and 10.

Tell me, did you know what number would show up before it arrived?
Did you make it show up or did it just pop up outta nowhere by itself?

I'm very interested in your answers. Til' then. :)
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:04 pm

Many (interesting) irons in the fire..
Please let me meditate on them
Did you make it show up or did it just pop up outta nowhere by itself?
This seems a particularly crucial, and difficult to respond, question

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:06 pm

The idea of questioning the concept of free will is particularly puzzling to me.
Please let me meditate on it, anyway :-)

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:11 pm

Just a couple of years it decades to meditate on that, and I'll give you the answer..
(joking)

Bofi
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:56 pm

Take your time, no rush. ;)
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:03 pm

I will read again (and again) the other questions, and get back to them.

But regarding to this:
Does it need an I for having the urge to win something?
Well, if there's nobody (not me 😄) enjoying a new apartment, why should the effort to get it be done?
Desire is to me an ego-centric feeling, that without an I would have no reason to exist.

So my sincere response is yes
I imagine people who realize the "I-lessness" ad uninterested to personal achievements (I don't imply that this is necessarily bad)


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