Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

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warissem
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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:33 pm

Hi David
From awareness, the sense of 'you' is a thought construct that changes constantly in its appearance. So in the end, it is nothing. No 'you' exists separate from thought made to "feel real" when thought combines with feelings and sensations.
Well said. Now, is there a you thinking? Can you stop a thought? Can you choose a thought ?
Answers have to come from direct experience.

Warissem

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DC415
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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:46 am

is there a you thinking? Can you stop a thought? Can you choose a thought ? Answers have to come from direct experience.
Thought is just happening as it does. Given there is no personal self (per last entry)- there is no 'you' thinking.

And as much as there has been effort to stop certain thought patterns - direct experience has shown, particular thoughts cannot be forced to stop beyond a short period of time.

There is a sense certain thoughts are chosen - what to eat for dinner, how to plan a day at work, how will I respond to an opportunity, etc. Yet through direct looking, those questions are thoughts too. Thoughts appear chosen but they are not because there is no one here to choose.

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:50 pm

Hi David
Thought is just happening as it does. Given there is no personal self (per last entry)- there is no 'you' thinking.
Yes.
And as much as there has been effort to stop certain thought patterns - direct experience has shown, particular thoughts cannot be forced to stop beyond a short period of time.
When you read “white elephant” the thought of the elephant is here. It cannot be stopped, it evaporates.
There is a sense certain thoughts are chosen - what to eat for dinner, how to plan a day at work, how will I respond to an opportunity, etc. Yet through direct looking, those questions are thoughts too. Thoughts appear chosen but they are not because there is no one here to choose.
If thoughts are chosen you will drop away all bad thoughts. Yes, there is no one to choose.

Now, take a walk outside and look around you; describe what is seen, heard, sensed, smelt, tasted without using I. Write back what comes up afterwhile.

Warissem

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:13 pm

Warissem






Apologies for the delay. There was a desire to do this in earnest and when an attempt was made to post this yesterday, there were issues with the site for some reason.

On a bike ride yesterday, the following was reflected on:
Now, take a walk outside and look around you; describe what is seen, heard, sensed, smelt, tasted without using I. Write back what comes up afterwhile.
What was seen were objects - trees, animals, the sky, clouds, etc. What was heard were the sounds of birds, the wind, talking. What was smelt was the fragrance of nature - nothing was tasted per say.

Also what was seen was a body riding a bicycle. Everything is contained within awareness.

And there is a stickiness that seems to say this is happening within a 'me.' Yet, when it is asked "who is this me?' This me can only be found as a thought.

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:03 pm

Hi David

Your report about direct experience shows that there is no need of an I or a me to what is. Seeing takes place, hearing takes place, ... labeling takes place automatically. Well done.

But,
And there is a stickiness that seems to say this is happening within a 'me.' Yet, when it is asked "who is this me?' This me can only be found as a thought.
Yes there is a habit of the "me", we are educated in a sense that we always put a subject to a verb : I am walking, It is raining, it is cold, it is warm, I am thinking, he is doing good. When you look at this me, you conclude that it is a thought. Great.

Now how about your previous posts about this ashamed me : can a thought "me" be ashamed? Can you go through this and come back with what is going on?

Best wishes, warissem

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DC415
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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:09 pm

Now how about your previous posts about this ashamed me : can a thought "me" be ashamed? Can you go through this and come back with what is going on?
A good exploration.... in this body-mind there has been addiction, crossing lines that harmed 'others' and this apparent person that seems affected by all these 'mistakes.' From this, selfishness, arrogance, narcissism have been seen - just as birds, the sky, the lake, etc. were seen on the walk. Strong emotions of shame, regret, belief in a self-deficient person have been experienced. Paradoxically, the utility of this has been a great melt down of the belief in a personal self. Quite a brier patch as created in mind that seemed to imprison consciousness.

It is clear that misidentification was the cause and in the end, while there were consequences, they all mean nothing. It was all a part of dreaming this false self into existence.

It is clearly seen all of this was driven from thought and a belief in these thoughts. And the belief in the thought that "I am responsible for healing and making things right" And ultimately this mind had the goal of trying to be a better person. Again, it is seen those are thoughts. Based on these exercises, there is more space around these identifications. They seem more ghost like now.

That's probably enough to share at this point.

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:44 pm

Hi David

You made good observations about the illusion of the self. Now, there are some questions to make sure that you are gone through the illusion of self :

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please, quote each question and answer to it from direct experience.

Best wishes, warissem

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:57 pm

Dear Warissem,

Okay got it! :)
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
For the most part - a separate entity is not experienced when looking from awareness or direct experience. There are times there is the experience of being caught up in thought, makes it feel as if this one has lost touch with direct experience. Other times, there is a sense of being triggered by apparent outer events or others that takes my attentio back into mind. Finally, the experience of direct experience still feels mostly localized yet that may just be because it is LOL. When triggering impacts direct experience or there is a sense of disassociating from direct experience - self-inquiry is engaged (who is the one thinking? who is the one triggered, or other inquiry practices).
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
Fist, it arises out of an identification with experiences - typically regret/shame/guilt about past actions or an extrapolation of how those experiences will impact the future. There is still a pull to a sense of responsibility to do 'better' or to avoid actions that create dissociation. The work that this body-mind has done also was big on fostering personal responsibility. And there have been times when spiritual by passing have happened in this body-mind which was more about believing the concepts of nonduality rather than engaging direct experience. Second, when judgement is believed about this person, another person or events, there can seem to be a disconnection from direct experience for a short time.

More and more, judgements are seen for what they are yet there are times when strong feelings and sensations are associated with thoughts and seem to velcro together to 'feel real.' Again,typically these are caught and inquired into... yet they still arise and stickiness to the illusion is experienced. Finally, when engaging in conversations with others whose minds are still very active with 'the world' or doing the work as an executive coach or healer - there can be the sense of losing contact with direct experience. There is a sense that at some point, there will be a dropping into consistency but I do see that is another expectation thought. There is no need to wait :).
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
There is no doubt there has been a difference. So first, thank you! It is recognized, as was pointed out, I gave the mind way too much play and consideration. This is happening far less now and it is clearly seen that direct experience is closer than the breath. Greater silence and space is being seen, felt and experienced as I turn attention towards that which never changes and is always consistent.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
Not sure the question is understood. What i will say is that seeing the mind so obviously running rough shot in the first few posts, shifted something. It was recognized that the most important thing is to keep putting attention on IT, not the illusory 'me.' And inquiry has also increased as more vigilance arose. This has resulted in far fewer thoughts being trusted and believed.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
In short, it is seen that things just happen as they do. There does appear to be decision points like how will this body-mind organize its day, what carry out place shall be ordered from, responding to one's partner and their concerns, purchasing decisions, etc. Yet if I am completely honest - there is no one making a decision, decisions just happen. Even taking time to consider options in a decision just happens. It has also been noticed that addictive impulses have almost dissolved, as there is greater connection to direct experience. It is as if the choice has shifted... maybe because there was a thought that "I had to fix this somehow." To be honest, it can't be said why this happened, just noticing there is more space and attentiveness to what's happening now.
6) Anything to add?
Again, thank you. There is a strong noticing of a shift and at the same time it is seen that this is as it always has been. it is noticed that attention is now broader and more peripheral yet also more centered in the heart - far less in the head.

It is noticed that as the body-mind awakes the mind turns on and blares like a irritating radio station breaking the silence. At the same time, this is seen and when it is attention turns back to the question "who is experiencing this?" or "To who is this arising". Thus some effort appears to still be required but I cannot say who is making that effort, it is just happening. It is as if there has been a turn in attention and it's on a kind of auto pilot turning back towards itself. There is great interest in doing this turning towards and less effort is required to make this turn. It is crystal clear that right now there is nothing but THAT and that everything is appearing in it or on it but that which seems projected passes as quickly as it appears.

Finally, preferences and conditioning still appear. certain meals are enjoyed more than others, time is more preferred spent one way or another, more or less willingness to engage various activities appears. etc. That said, far less emphasis is placed on these choices and there is more freedom felt to just let it be what it is without judgement.

Really great questions - thank you Warissem!

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:29 pm

Hi David

Great. You gave time to answer to the questions and you made good observations but there is a need for further clarity.

1)
“There are times there is the experience of being caught up in thought, makes it feel as if this one has lost touch with direct experience.”
Yes there is experience of being caught up in thought but is there any one which has lost touch with direct experience?
“Other times, there is a sense of being triggered by apparent outer events or others that takes my attention back into mind.”
“Outer events or others” are thoughts arising. Interpretation about what is seen, heard, … are thoughts : a train of thoughts. Are they Your thoughts ? Is there a you to be triggered ? is it really Your attention ?
“self-inquiry is engaged (who is the one thinking? who is the one triggered , …)”
Yes, good. Can you answer the questions above after having looked? Is there really any one here who is enquiring? Who is thinking? Or thoughts come up without a need of a thinker? Look.

2) After having read the reply to the second question, this is what comes up :

Look right here right now to that which is identifying with experiences : is there any one here?
Does a past and a future exist besides thought?
Is there a you with a sense of responsibility or these are just thoughts coming up?

4)
“It was recognized that the most important thing is to keep putting attention on IT,”
What do you mean by IT ? Can you give some details on IT?.
“This has resulted in far fewer thoughts being trusted and believed.”
Believed and trusted, by what ?


5)
"I had to fix this somehow."
Is there a you in charge here ?

Look before answering the questions, don't go to the mind nor the books.

Best wishes, warissem

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:21 pm

Warissem,

Great - let's continue.

1)
Yes there is experience of being caught up in thought but is there any one which has lost touch with direct experience?
There seems to be 'something' that lost touch with direct experience because a thought or construct is 'believed' and again it appears that thoughts conjoin or get velcro'd to arising feelings and sensations to the point - they appear to take up all space in awareness - as if clouds are blocking the sun. That said - direct experience seems to immediately reappear and the thought is seen for what it is - a temporary expression that holds no weight. Thus it could be said no one lost touch but it does appear, in those moments, awareness loses touch with itself. At the same time, this is an illusion because it is clearly seen awareness is the only thing that really exists.
“Outer events or others” are thoughts arising. Interpretation about what is seen, heard, … are thoughts : a train of thoughts. Are they Your thoughts ? Is there a you to be triggered ? is it really Your attention ?
The value of this question is priceless. In short, thoughts just appear, the body-mind appears to react to certain triggers, attention appears to go on auto pilot or slows down and seems more consciously directed. Is there a "me" doing this? Again, this one can't be found... something is confused here about all of this. There is a sense that attention can be directed but I cannot say who is directing it. There is something that inquires - something interested in this inquiry - it appears to be localized here and it is clear other body-minds do not appear to hold this same interest. Not sure what to make of that :).

2)
Look right here right now to that which is identifying with experiences : is there any one here?
Does a past and a future exist besides thought? Is there a you with a sense of responsibility or these are just thoughts coming up?
There appears to be a body-mind here that is experiencing different others and events. That said, this is seen in awareness. At the same time, this experiencer of awareness appears localized through this body-mind. Other body-minds appear to be having different experiences.

It is seen clearly that past and future are only thoughts or interpretations of what has or will happen. And yet it is clear one body-mind will interpret past events differently from this one. And future prophecies have rarely unfolded according to guesses made. And the sense of responsibility is also just a thought yet is a thought still believed in strongly. All that said, when full presence is experienced - the body-mind seems to know what to do now (in that moment) and it seems far more effective than trying to plan ahead... if that makes sense.

4)
“It was recognized that the most important thing is to keep putting attention on IT,” - IT WAS ASKED:

What do you mean by IT ? Can you give some details on IT?.
What I mean by "It" is awareness. This "IT" is the sense of existence that experiences life through the senses. It is the one aware of thoughts, feelings and sensations as well as the space around them.
“This has resulted in far fewer thoughts being trusted and believed.” IT WAS ASKED:
Believed and trusted,by what ?
Great catch LOL... All that can be said is there is a sense when thoughts are identified with or trusted as real... but as is asked "who or what is trusting these thoughts?" This "IT" appears to be just another thought.

5)
Is there a you in charge here ?
This ultimate thought of "I" clearly wants to believe it is in charge... and many thoughts seem to make the case for the validity of this belief. And "Others" appear outside of me that reinforce this sense of being in charge of one's like and being responsible. Yet, again, what this "I" sees as others is only an interpretation of those "other appearances." And it is seen that thoughts of shame or guilt or should that arise reinforce the importance of believing there is an "small i" in charge or responsible. It is all just a web of thoughts that appear connected to build a grand illusion.

And there is also a longing felt... that desires to be free from all of it, to not be restrained by any of it.. to lean into the spontaneity of life as it is unfolding now - without regard for concepts of responsibility or being in charge or control or to show up any other way than what is actually appearing. Yet, while that is felt deeply ... it too is just a thought. Although, it is one something inside is strongly attracted to and it cannot be said why it is.

So where to go from here?

Thank you - David

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:51 am

Hi David
There seems to be 'something' that lost touch with direct experience because a thought or construct is 'believed' and again it appears that thoughts conjoin or get velcro'd to arising feelings and sensations to the point - they appear to take up all space in awareness - as if clouds are blocking the sun. That said - direct experience seems to immediately reappear and the thought is seen for what it is - a temporary expression that holds no weight. Thus it could be said no one lost touch but it does appear, in those moments, awareness loses touch with itself. At the same time, this is an illusion because it is clearly seen awareness is the only thing that really exists.

There is nothing that has lost touch with direct experience. Your answer comes from thinking : you are making inferences. Now let’s talk about arising thoughts and direct experience. You say, there is only awareness, that means that there is no you, no me, no other. Are you expecting to live 24/7 direct experience? No. There is what we call direct experience and there are thoughts. And there is “being lost in thoughts” but there is no you or something to be lost in thoughts.
The value of this question is priceless. In short, thoughts just appear, the body-mind appears to react to certain triggers, attention appears to go on auto pilot or slows down and seems more consciously directed. Is there a "me" doing this? Again, this one can't be found... something is confused here about all of this. There is a sense that attention can be directed but I cannot say who is directing it. There is something that inquires - something interested in this inquiry - it appears to be localized here and it is clear other body-minds do not appear to hold this same interest. Not sure what to make of that :).

Yes thoughts just appear and the body mind reacts to triggers due to your conditionings : culture, religion, education, society, … You say the “me” doing this cannot be found but you don’t accept what you have seen. Why? Because during all your life, you have been told that a verb needs a subject or in other terms, an experience needs an experiencer or a deed needs a doer. That is a conditioning of all mankind. The same conclusion is valuable for directing attention ; there is no you directing it.
“There is something that inquires - something interested in this inquiry - it appears to be localized here and it is clear other body-minds do not appear to hold this same interest. Not sure what to make of that :)”

Can you see clearly that this sentence is a train of thoughts :one thought tracting another thought? Can you pinpoint to the “something” in direct experience? You THINK that “you”, the doer, the experiencer, the enquirer, … is localized in your body somewhere, possibly in the midst of you head, between your ears or behind your eyes. Can you pinpoint at this You in direct experience? Get out from thinking and come to looking.

Now, why do you call up other body minds? These are only thoughts which are arising.

“There appears to be a body-mind here that is experiencing different others and events.”
You use often the term “body- mind” : can you be clear about the concepts? What is a body in direct experience (what is seen, heard, smelt, tasted, sensed )? What is mind in direct experience? Does a mind exist outside of thoughts?
Is body mind really experiencing something? Is there really an experiencer or just experiences?
“At the same time, this experiencer of awareness appears localized through this body-mind. “
Is there an experiencer behind awareness? What is awareness in your own words?
It is seen clearly that past and future are only thoughts or interpretations of what has or will happen. And yet it is clear one body-mind will interpret past events differently from this one. And future prophecies have rarely unfolded according to guesses made. And the sense of responsibility is also just a thought yet is a thought still believed in strongly. All that said, when full presence is experienced - the body-mind seems to know what to do now (in that moment) and it seems far more effective than trying to plan ahead... if that makes sense.
“It is seen clearly that past and future are only thoughts or interpretations of what has or will happen.” Good. The on going text you wrote is about thoughts : it does not come from direct experience.
What I mean by "It" is awareness. This "IT" is the sense of existence that experiences life through the senses. It is the one aware of thoughts, feelings and sensations as well as the space around them.
Yes for what you said. Now which is going to keep putting attention on IT?

Great catch LOL... All that can be said is there is a sense when thoughts are identified with or trusted as real... but as is asked "who or what is trusting these thoughts?" This "IT" appears to be just another thought.
To believe is to give existence to something which is real or not real. The belief continues to show because you don’t give time to LOOK or you don’t have enough light to see. It is like the snake and the rope story. In twilight, the man was afraid when seeing the snake. Then a sage said to him, look it is a rope not a snake. When the man has seen for sure that it is a rope, the fear is gone. The thoughts are only thoughts, you have to see them as what they are, thoughts which have no existence in reality. You said “this IT appears to be just another thought” : few sentences before, you said IT is awareness, now you say it is a thought. Yes “IT” is a concept but it points to awareness. If IT is a thought, can a thought be aware ?

This ultimate thought of "I" clearly wants to believe it is in charge... and many thoughts seem to make the case for the validity of this belief. And "Others" appear outside of me that reinforce this sense of being in charge of one's like and being responsible. Yet, again, what this "I" sees as others is only an interpretation of those "other appearances." And it is seen that thoughts of shame or guilt or should that arise reinforce the importance of believing there is an "small i" in charge or responsible. It is all just a web of thoughts that appear connected to build a grand illusion.

A long train of thoughts here. Now again, can a thought “I” want or believe or do or see or hear whatever it is?

Yes others appear outside of you when there is identification to your body. You are afraid to let go because you BELIEVE that You are in control of Your life.

And there is also a longing felt... that desires to be free from all of it, to not be restrained by any of it.. to lean into the spontaneity of life as it is unfolding now - without regard for concepts of responsibility or being in charge or control or to show up any other way than what is actually appearing. Yet, while that is felt deeply ... it too is just a thought. Although, it is one something inside is strongly attracted to and it cannot be said why it is.
For WHOM are they all these expectations ? Look at this Whom in direct experience.


PS :It will be of good help for you to read carefully each question and give an answer from direct experience. It won't help you elaborating on the subject and speculating. Can you see this : the looking only makes the man know that it is a rope and not a snake. This single Seeing is liberating. LOOK at this I which elaborating, wanting liberation, afraid of letting go, controling, being responsible, ... This I is the root of the hell and suffering. Look at this I and write back : does it exist in any shape or form? Does it have a color, a perfume or a taste ?


Warissem

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:55 pm

Warissem,

This dialogue is appreciated and thank you for your persistence and patience.
Are you expecting to live 24/7 direct experience? No. There is what we call direct experience and there are thoughts. And there is “being lost in thoughts” but there is no you or something to be lost in thoughts.
This makes sense and helpful to see - Consciousness is either in direct experience or is lost in thoughts, there is no individual having direct experience or being lost in thoughts.
Can you see clearly that this sentence is a train of thoughts :one thought tracting another thought? Can you pinpoint to the “something” in direct experience? You THINK that “you”, the doer, the experiencer, the enquirer, … is localized in your body somewhere, possibly in the midst of you head, between your ears or behind your eyes. Can you pinpoint at this You in direct experience? Get out from thinking and come to looking.
It is seen that these are trains of thought - one thought tracking another. When entranced by thought the experience is that consciousness is in a sense trapped between the ears and that this thinking seem fused to sensations in the body. Yet, in direct experience, awareness sees these arisings as objects within itself without weight or substance.

[/quote]You use often the term “body- mind” : can you be clear about the concepts? What is a body in direct experience (what is seen, heard, smelt, tasted, sensed )? What is mind in direct experience? Does a mind exist outside of thoughts?
Is body mind really experiencing something? Is there really an experiencer or just experiences?[/quote]

From awareness, the body is an object in awareness - one that is constantly changing. Specifically, the form of the body is seen. Yet, when looking directly - the seeing, sounds, tastes, smells, feelings that appears to be in the body-mind are experienced beyond the body's form - in awareness only. Also, no mind can be identified beyond thought - mind is thought. Finally - there seems to be no separation between the experiencer and experiences. In other words, the experiencer is just another experience.
Is there an experiencer behind awareness? What is awareness in your own words?
No there is not a separate experiencer - awareness and experience are synonymous. Awareness is both the space in which experiences happen as well as the experiencer itself.
(My quote) What I mean by "It" is awareness. This "IT" is the sense of existence that experiences life through the senses. It is the one aware of thoughts, feelings and sensations as well as the space around them.

Your question:
Yes for what you said. Now which is going to keep putting attention on IT?
To be honest, there is confusion regarding your question. When looking directly there is only awareness - there is no director of attention. That said, the longing arises to maintain attention on this... again more trains of thought but that is what arises.
The belief continues to show because you don’t give time to LOOK or you don’t have enough light to see.
Maybe the light needs to increase for me to see clearly yet hopefully this is what is occurring in our dialogue.
can a thought be aware ?
No a thought cannot be aware. One can only be aware there is a thought.
Yes others appear outside of you when there is identification to your body. You are afraid to let go because you BELIEVE that You are in control of Your life.
This is true - There is fear to totally let go and trust that life will take care of this 'me.' At the same time, there is a realization "I" do not control a thing because when I look directly no 'me' can be found... It is seen that this apparent dilemma is just another series of thoughts and the only way that can be seen to do anything about this is continuous inquiry to break what appears to be a trance. Again, a belief based on guidance received prior to this.
For WHOM are they all these expectations ? Look at this Whom in direct experience.
This 'whom' is just a thought... yet if any thought is worthwhile for its utility, is this not a worthwhile one? As "a thorn that is used to remove the thorn"? It is also seen that this is still an attempt to control some outcome that is illusory. Argggg! :)

Thank you - David

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:11 pm

Hi David

I read the last post of yours, You deceive me David. You are just parroting what you have heard or read about consciousness, awareness, ..
This thread is about You, it is not about consciousness or awareness, why do you avoid to use “I” even you know it is a thought, a concept, it is a good tool to communicate.
You are not looking at this You. You are still disserting from what you know, from what you read in books. I am not expecting you to know about awareness, consciousness or whatever. It is not an examination. I want to make you see the TRUTH, the glimpse will last one second, two seconds, a minute, an hour, a day, a week, I don’t know. BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR YOURSELF.

Right now there is reading of these words on the screen and there is meaning given to this words. There is no you reading these words and there is no you to give them meanings. Do you see that?
Exercice of looking : it has to be done during the day for about an hour in the morning, an hour in the afternoon :
Report what you see, what you hear, what you smell, what you taste, report your sensations, don’t report thoughts. When a thought comes, say :“it is distraction” and come back to the observation. During this exercice you need to LOOK at this you : example, during seeing objects or whatever colors, … Look if there is a seer or a you seeing. You have to look, it is of any help for you to say “ no” because you know that or you understand that. You have to Look. During hearing just look if there is a hearer or an experiencer. …

the exercice can be done at home, during a walk in a park, ... tomorrow wednesday or whenever. Come back with a report. There is no urge.

Warissem

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Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby DC415 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:32 am

Warissem

I will do this in earnest... AND there is no attempt to parrot here or speak from books or what the mind 'knows', as you note. But self-deception may be happening - I will look as directly as possible and take your words to heart.

This back and forth has assisted me in seeing through mind and awareness is much more in the forefront, not the background. Yet while it is stable - the seeing is not. This much is seen.

This will not be rushed and your words will be taken to heart. A reply will happen after some time with deep consideration. I will not rush to respond yet will once your words are deeply considered.

Thank you - David

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warissem
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Ready To See Clearly and Rest As I Am

Postby warissem » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:54 am

Hi David

There is resistance to look. What do I mean by looking : using the five senses, as simple as this.
Now, read again your replies in the last post and see for yourself that all of them are thoughts : that means the words used do not point to what is, direct experience, what is known through senses. We can not deny knowing of thoughts but I said don’t go there.

Nevertheless, there is one reply which is made after observation, here it is :
“This is true - There is fear to totally let go and trust that life will take care of this 'me.' At the same time, there is a realization "I" do not control a thing because when I look directly no 'me' can be found... It is seen that this apparent dilemma is just another series of thoughts and the only way that can be seen to do anything about this is continuous inquiry to break what appears to be a trance. Again, a belief based on guidance received prior to this.”
I have given to you all the tools to look at this non self, but there is resistance to look and you know why : because of this fear to let go as you said. About this fear I can assure you that even now, before seeing that there is no you, the life is taking care of itself without you. You can notice that I wrote “… care of ITSELF” which means that there is no you, life does not care of this “me” even right now because as you said it in previous posts “me” is a thought, a concept, then is there a need to life to take care of a concept ?

Continue to do the exercice of observation and report from direct experience without going to thoughts : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, sensations (touch). It is so simple.

Warissem


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