Freedom Now

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:56 am

Great summary, classic description. Thank you for taking time to look at this.
I can't find any specific dividing line that marks the location of separation. It is pretty vague.
Yes, it’s pretty vague, because there is none. Zero. So mind makes up a foggy line, which might be there and never looks at the fact that it made it up.
So let’s clarify that vagueness.
There is no separate self at all. All is one happening, nothing is separate from this.
Like a ring is not separate front he gold, this form is not separate from its essence - aliveness.

Privacy and uniqueness are included. Resistance is included. Feelings are included. Sense of separateness is included. All these are part of life happening.

Is line possible?

Is there anything outside of life? Outside of experience? Outside of being?
And where is inside? Is sound happening inside or outside? Is colour happening inside or outside? How about sensations? Taste? Smell? Explore this.

What is evidence in your experience that there is a me and that me is separate from life?

Love.


Ps. I have started a video series on YouTube, it might be helpful. https://youtu.be/JjInaOA328M

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:22 pm

Hi Ilona
Is there anything outside of life?
No, not that I am aware of.
Outside of experience?
No, not that I am aware of.
Outside of being?
No, not that I am aware of.
And where is inside?
No inside, no outside.
Is sound happening inside or outside?
Just happening.
Is colour happening inside or outside?
Just happening.
How about sensations? Taste? Smell? Explore this.
It's all just happening. There is no inside or outside to life.
What is evidence in your experience that there is a me and that me is separate from life?
There is no evidence to prove it either way. There is only the experience of me as I am but there is no proof. There is no evidence of separation. Of course there is no evidence of non-separation either. All that I know is that there is an ongoing experience of being an individual person in a world with other individuals. There are all sorts of wants and needs and demands on me as an individual that I am required to fulfill in some way whether I am capable of that or not. Some of these wants/needs/demands originate within my own being and some of them come from others. And I feel completely incapable of fulfilling the demands of life, which is an unhappy place to be in.
Ps. I have started a video series on YouTube, it might be helpful. https://youtu.be/JjInaOA328M
Enjoyed the videos. Fear, resistance, distraction. Yep, that's the way it is. And huge amounts of expectations. I have started being aware of some of the expectations I live with. Seems endless right now. So many expectations!

Ok that's it for now. Am very caught up in the circumstances of my individual life, hard to see past my personal problems into the larger life reality today. Maybe I wouldn't feel so seperete from life if I didn't feel so burdened by inner emotional demands that are never satisfied. Feeling very incapable and inadequate today.

Thank you

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:55 am

Hi Ilona

Have been writing down long lists of expectations of myself, others, life. It's good to list them.out, I'm seeing things that were hidden before. Thanks for that video on expectations, it inspired me to take a look at this. Amazing how much expectations shape my experience of life.

Today I am feeling more and more that I am not at all in charge of my own life. Maybe I never was in charge. But there is still the desire to be in charge. I can't let go and surrender into completely letting go of being in charge and at the same I see that I'm not in charge either. It's kind of scary to feel like I have no idea at all what is going to happen. Well, whatever happens is what happens but there is some fear here happening. I guess I'm not in charge of that either!

There's some sense of "me-ness" here but the me-ness isn't in control of what happens in life. I feel.like a sugar cube that is dissolving, it's still a sugar cube but it's also dissolving at the same time. Feeling like I'm still me but dissolving. Not exactly a drop, not exactly the ocean either. In process of dissolving but resisting it at the same time.

Ok just wanted to share with you.
Thank you.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:49 am

Thank you for sharing. There is a desire to be in charge. Yes. But does desire mean being in charge? We’re you ever in charge? If so, how? What were you in control off?

Surrender is absence of resistance. It happens, when resisting is not active, many times a day! Can you find that which resist?what is there?

What else are you noticing?

Love

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:54 pm

Hi Ilona
There is a desire to be in charge. Yes. But does desire mean being in charge?

No, desire to be in charge is not the same as being in charge. That much is clear. I suppose that there is also a desire to continue to believe that I am in charge, even if it's not actually the case. Giving up the desire to be in charge could be very freeing but there is resistance, some fear that then disaster will occur. Not much basic trust in life!


We’re you ever in charge? If so, how? What were you in control off?

I don't know that I was ever in charge of anything in my life. But I did believe that I was in charge of all of my choices, and all of my behaviors. This is now under question. It is possible that there is no one in charge at all! Right now the sense of being in charge of my choices is the ongoing experience, but I am open to looking at this.

Surrender is absence of resistance. It happens, when resisting is not active, many times a day! Can you find that which resist?what is there?

That which resists is the I-me-self. I mean that the I-me-self actually IS the resistance. No resistance equals no self. I don't find times in the day of no resistance but I do find times with less resistance. It is always shifting, it goes up and down in intensity throughout the day (and night).

What else are you noticing?


In a few previous posts you asked me something like:
What should be different?
Or
How should life be different than it is?
Things like that.
Well I have been noticing an attitude that I have which is constantly thinking that life should be different! All the time! My experience should be different than it is! And actually I should be very different from the way that I am! My thoughts should be different, my emotions should be different, my state of consciousness should be different! I should be better at EVERYTHING I do, always! No matter what I'm doing I should be better at it and no matter what is happening, it should be better as well.

Ok that's what I have been noticing lately.
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:38 am

That which resists is the I-me-self. I mean that the I-me-self actually IS the resistance. No resistance equals no self. I don't find times in the day of no resistance but I do find times with less resistance. It is always shifting, it goes up and down in intensity throughout the day (and night).
This is very interesting, isn’t it?
No self means points to the actuality of everything being a happening, not a doing, that life is flowing freely, without you as a manager.
Resistance is flowing freely too, is it not?
Are you making reactions happen or they show up?
If you are looking for life with minimal resistance, that is entirely different question.
Realising no self does not mean resistance is off. It means seeing that resistance is too part of life And it is happening.

It’s interesting, that what you call a me is resistance to life. Let’s simply call it resistance. It’s a pattern of fighting life. Does that fight need a me? Is it coming from a me? Or does it bring a me within it? In other words, does the sense of self create a fight or the fight creates a sense of self?

Does resisting life help? And what are you getting from resisting life? What is the payoff? (Take time with this question and find out, what is that resistance is doing for you )

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:38 am

That which resists is the I-me-self. I mean that the I-me-self actually IS the resistance. No resistance equals no self. I don't find times in the day of no resistance but I do find times with less resistance. It is always shifting, it goes up and down in intensity throughout the day (and night).
This is very interesting, isn’t it?
No self means to the actuality of everything being a happening, not a doing, that life is flowing freely, without you as a manager.
Resistance is flowing freely too, is it not?
Are you making reactions happen or they show up?
If you are looking for life with minimal resistance, that is entirely different question.
Realising no self does not mean resistance is off. It means seeing that resistance is too part of life And it is happening.

It’s interesting, that what you call a me is resistance to life. Let’s simply call it resistance. It’s a pattern of fighting life. Does that fight need a me? Is it coming from a me? Or does it bring a me within it? In other words, does the sense of self create a fight or the fight creates a sense of self?

Does resisting life help? And what are you getting from resisting life? What is the payoff? (Take time with this question and find out, what is that resistance is doing for you )

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:31 am

Hi Ilona
No self means to the actuality of everything being a happening, not a doing, that life is flowing freely, without you as a manager.
Resistance is flowing freely too, is it not?
Yes, resistance occurs without any effort on my part, whether I like it or not.
Are you making reactions happen or they show up?
Reactions happen but then there is usually a secondary reaction to the original reaction (example: getting mad at my self for being scared)
If you are looking for life with minimal resistance, that is entirely different question.
Realising no self does not mean resistance is off. It means seeing that resistance is too part of life And it is happening.
Yes, of course any resistance is part of life. EVERYTHING is part of life. Whether or not I am creating it, there is a very strong desire to have less resistance. Strong desire for effortlessness and being in the flow of life and less wrapped up in self concerns, self thoughts, self absorption.
It’s interesting, that what you call a me is resistance to life. Let’s simply call it resistance. It’s a pattern of fighting life. Does that fight need a me?
I don't know if fight needs a me, but they are both here now. Don't understand why life would need to fight with life in the first place ...
Is it coming from a me? Or does it bring a me within it? In other words, does the sense of self create a fight or the fight creates a sense of self?
They arise together. They are dependant on each other.
Does resisting life help?
On the surface level no, it doesn't help, but there must be a reason for it, so maybe it is helping in ways that I don't understand.
And what are you getting from resisting life? What is the payoff? (Take time with this question and find out, what is that resistance is doing for you )
There is no obvious payoff. Perhaps I get to maintain my identity. Perhaps there is avoidance of emotional pain. I don't know that there is really a payoff for anything. Is there a payoff for depression or anxiety? For PTSD? It just continues on its own. Including the sense of self who is doing all of this.

Resistance or no resistance, the self object continues. Self referencing thoughts dominate my mind. I understand that it is all life happening. Life is me and the me is doing all this stuff.

The way it shows up is not that life is doing resistance directly, it is happening through an intermediary, which is ME. I am an agent for life happening. Life is me, and then me does all this stuff (resistance, fear, thoughts, desires, and so on).

So there still seems to be a me, because life isn't doing any of this directly. Resistance is life happening indirectly, through the intermediary of ME. Is this making any sense? It's like life needs the I-me-self in order to have all this other stuff happen.

Well this is the best I can do for now. (Or should I say this is the best that is happening through me for now?)
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:58 am

Thank you for taking time and exploring.
It seems like there is me that exists as an agent. Well, that’s the illusion.
I am an agent for life happening. Life is me, and then me does all this stuff (resistance, fear, thoughts, desires, and so on).
Who says that? Is the voice in the head the agent?

And what do you mean by resistance is happening indirectly? Ok, in your own experience, what happens, when resistance shows up? Describe in detail.

I give you a metaphor
You are walking on a forest road and you see a snake. Immediately you jump back, you get scared and run home. You tell your family about the event, and how you met a huge snake that was almost ready to attack you and you had to run.
Next day you go in the same road and you see the same snake, right at the same spot. This time you get suspicious and come closer. Dear god, it’s only a stick. There is no fear, no running away, no story about big bad snake.

Now, did anything happen to the snake, when it was seen that it was not real?
Did snake become a stick?
What made the snake into a stick?
Can you see how not knowing the truth (the essence) created a whole chain of reactions to an imaginary snake?

Apply this to your situation. You think, that there is a snake (agent, me) that makes reactions happen. But me comes within reaction as a subject of a story.... now you continue, what do you notice?

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:04 pm

Hi Ilona
I give you a metaphor
You are walking on a forest road and you see a snake. Immediately you jump back, you get scared and run home. You tell your family about the event, and how you met a huge snake that was almost ready to attack you and you had to run.
Next day you go in the same road and you see the same snake, right at the same spot. This time you get suspicious and come closer. Dear god, it’s only a stick. There is no fear, no running away, no story about big bad snake.
Yes things are not always as they seem. Here is another version of this famous story:

I see a stick in the road. I bend down to pick it up. Omg it's really a snake and it bites me! Did the stick become the snake?

I didn't really see what was before me and I pay the price for that! It is not that everything in the universe is completely benign and it's my mistaken observations that create fear. It is equally possible to miss seeing the hidden dangers as well, by mistaking one thing for another.
Apply this to your situation. You think, that there is a snake (agent, me) that makes reactions happen. But me comes within reaction as a subject of a story.... now you continue, what do you notice?
I'm confused by this. Don't understand what you mean by "But me comes within reaction as a subject of a story.... now you continue, what do you notice?"
I am an agent for life happening. Life is me, and then me does all this stuff (resistance, fear, thoughts, desires, and so on).
Who says that? Is the voice in the head the agent?
The inner voice isn't the agent. The inner voice is the speaking of the agent, just like the outer voice is the speaking of the being.
And what do you mean by resistance is happening indirectly? Ok, in your own experience, what happens, when resistance shows up? Describe in detail.
By resistance occuring indirectly I mean that Life is acting through the illusion of me to create resistance. I don't get that Life is creating resistance. It appears that I me am creating the resistance.

Now did I choose to create the resistance? No, it is just happening. But then I don't want that to be happening. So did I choose the not wanting it to happen? No, the not wanting is also just happening..... There is an "I" in "my" mind that claims credit. Did I choose to claim credit? No claiming credit is just happening... And trying to see the self ME as illusionary but failing at seeing that is also just happening. And the sense that there is a me is just happening..... I understand all of this but am still stuck in my own personal prison.... Arrrrgh!!! And frustration is just happening....

Am noticing lately that I hold a deep belief that "everything should be better". My life should have been better than it was. This moment should be better than it is. My future should be better. Not only that I me should be better at everything I do but also every single life experience should be better. Relationships should be better. Food should be better. Sex should be better. Working should be better. Playing should be better. Sleep should be better. Dreams should be better. Cars should be better. Houses should be better. People should be better. Love should be better. My state of consciousness should be better. On and on. I understand that of course things can only be as they are/were/will be. Life can only be as life is, because it already is as it is. But still my mind/belief/attitude is that everything should be better! Like I *should* have had a much better life than the crappy trauma ridden life I actually had. Like I *should* be in an ongoing experience of universal love, feeling safe and confident and fearless and free. I *should* have had a brilliant career and a satisfying social life with many great adventures and contributions to humanity. Instead of wasting most of my life in ptsd flip-outs, fears, and self hatred. I'm just saying that my life should have been so much better!

But of course nothing can be better than it was because the experience has already happened, how can it be any different? Intellectually I can say that, but my mind and my heart and my body are all saying "it should have been a better life in the past. It should be better now!"

Ok I think that's enough for today.
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:11 am

Dear friend.
I hear you. Life sucks when looked at through the glasses of “this should be better”
Can you look back into your childhood and see who was like that in your immediate environment? Who did you learn this from? Who told you that life as it is is not enough? When was the first time that you felt that life (anything) should be better?

Go back in time and identify the root of this pattern. You were not born with this pattern, you learned it. You took it innocently from someone you trusted and now are living their story about life. It’s not yours. explore!

Write what you found.


Another thing to explore is this- is universe benign? Is universe here to hurt you, to damage you to give you struggles? How do you know? What if it is benign, only you don’t see it looking through “this should be better” belief? Would you rather keep that belief and continue be miserable or are you open to see freshly and find out what is the truth?

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:59 pm

Hi Ilona
I hear you. Life sucks when looked at through the glasses of “this should be better”
Can you look back into your childhood and see who was like that in your immediate environment?
My parents were very critical and unhappy people. Very angry and depressed most of the time.
Who did you learn this from?
Apparently parents.
Who told you that life as it is is not enough?
I don't think it was stated so obviously that "all of life should be better". It was more the general attitude of criticalness. Life as it is may be "enough" but it's not *good* enough. It's not the way I want it to be, it's endlessly frustrating and disappointing.
When was the first time that you felt that life (anything) should be better?
Life should have been better from the day I was born, or conceived, or even before that. My earliest memories are fairly traumatic. I have spent my entire adult life in therapy looking at childhood causes of my suffering. But looking at early causes of disappointment with life is like looking for the source of a virus: if I am sick with the virus, does it really matter where I got it from?
Another thing to explore is this- is universe benign? Is universe here to hurt you, to damage you to give you struggles?
I don't believe that the universe is "out to get me" in some paranoid way. But it doesn't seem exactly loving and supportive either. Universe just is.
How do you know?
I don't know. All I have are beliefs.
What if it is benign, only you don’t see it looking through “this should be better” belief?
Universe is neutral but my individual experience is one of suffering through life. My experience should be better. The events of my life should have been different, the paths I took should have been more fulfilling, satisfying. My ongoing experience of life should be more full of love and joy, more freedom.
Would you rather keep that belief and continue be miserable or are you open to see freshly and find out what is the truth?
I am open to seeing freshly. Sometimes it does happen where the clouds part and the glorious truth shines through. But again it should be like all the time! Or at least more of the time. That's what I mean by "better". More free. More fresh. More truth. More clarity. More satisfying. More fulfilling. More living life to the fullest. More "go for it" attitude. That's what what I mean when I say life should be better.

Thank you

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:19 pm

Thank you kindly, for honesty and openess.
But looking at early causes of disappointment with life is like looking for the source of a virus: if I am sick with the virus, does it really matter where I got it from?
well, yes, that’s how it started, being aware of that allows these patterns to drop. You see that the pattern is not yours, it is learned, it is optional, it’s ok to unlearn. And if it is not helpful, then why to hold on?
This is a question of how to life life and navigate through challenges.
More free. More fresh. More truth. More clarity. More satisfying. More fulfilling. More living life to the fullest. More "go for it" attitude. That's what what I mean when I say life should be better.
Great! Are you ready for more freedom, truth, clarity, fulfilling?
If the answer is no, what is in the way?
If the answer is yes, are you ready NOW?

Because you are already free.. only thinking that you need more or better experience is in the way of fully seeing that you are already free to experience life as it is. Including thinking that this should be different and knowing how it feels.

What is here without thoughts that this should be different?
What is incomplete, if anything?

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:45 am

Hi Ilona
well, yes, that’s how it started, being aware of that allows these patterns to drop. You see that the pattern is not yours, it is learned, it is optional, it’s ok to unlearn. And if it is not helpful, then why to hold on?
It must serve some purpose. On the conscious level it is not useful or helpful but that doesn't stop the painful patterns. Sometimes it seems like the dysfunctional patterns do serve the purpose of maintaining identity. So while painful they do have a purpose.
Are you ready for more freedom, truth, clarity, fulfilling?
If the answer is no, what is in the way?
If the answer is yes, are you ready NOW?

I am ready NOW but it's not happening, so there must be something in the way. What is it? Force of habit? Fear? Unworthiness? I don't know. I can't find what is in the way.
What is here without thoughts that this should be different?
Trees, clouds, wind, grass, cars, people, noise, me, loneliness, sadness, wanting. But completely impossible to turn the thoughts off anyway, so this is a very hypothetical question. Even without the thought that things should be different, there is a mood or attitude of discomfort that carries through regardless.

Because you are already free.. only thinking that you need more or better experience is in the way of fully seeing that you are already free to experience life as it is. Including thinking that this should be different and knowing how it feels.
Maybe I am "already free" and "already enlightened" but it it's not realized, then hearing this is just more frustration. Am feeling like a complete failure at this liberation unleashed pointing out process.
What is incomplete, if anything?
Nothing is incomplete. It is not an issue of complete or incomplete. I can be completely lonely or completely frustrated or completely upset. It's not that there is something lacking (except maybe feeling safe and loved and free to be me).

The mind has automatic programs running in the background constantly. One of those programs is comparing what is happening to what I want to be happening. It is completely out of my control yet causes me more suffering. It's not even at the level of thoughts, it is more pre-thought and shows up as moods and attitudes.

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:07 am

Thank you!
Sometimes it seems like the dysfunctional patterns do serve the purpose of maintaining identity.
Aha, this might be it. What is that needs an identity? What is that has an identity and needs to maintain it? Are you here with and without identity? Or do you need to be someone to exist?
The mind has automatic programs running in the background constantly. One of those programs is comparing what is happening to what I want to be happening. It is completely out of my control yet causes me more suffering. It's not even at the level of thoughts, it is more pre-thought and shows up as moods and attitudes.
Yes, well noticed. There are automatic programs running. One of them is the program called “I want.”
What is behind the wanting? What is that wants?

What is that has no control?

See- these are also programs running. Wanting, not wanting- are you doing that or does it show up? And where does wanting come from?
Is there wanting not to want?

Btw, there is no i to get enlightened. You will not get enlightened. So instead of trying to become, look at what is real, what is here, underneath all happenings. Freedom is not from unwanted programs, but to feel and live fully as life shows up.

Fighting what is is optional. And fight ceases, when it’s seen as useless.
So we can examine, what is the use of fighting what is.

Love.


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