Trying to get it

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sun May 31, 2020 9:29 am

I Think the of there are no thoughts, no sense of I would be present.

My main concern is relative to willful actions, love, emotions, embarrassment... Situations where you're "I" feeling comes out stronger

"I" want to send that email to get a job.
Or "I" am in love with that person.
Would love, or determination exist, in there's no "I"..?
After all, these feelings are referred to a kind of emotional "reward" for your overall being as a whole and the sense of self is part of them, I feel
Where's the mistake?

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sun May 31, 2020 5:02 pm

Situations where you're "I" feeling comes out stronger
If there were no thoughts, this feeling would still be there, right? But without the interpretation that it is an “I” feeling.
So what makes a particular feeling an “I” feeling? Thought.

Let’s look how much truth we can find in thought.

Close your eyes and think of something to eat. A fruit for example. Concentrate on how it feels, how it smells and how the taste is. What colour does it have? What sound does it make when you tap on it?

Now open your eyes... the fruit felt so real - where did it go? Did you really smell it? Eat it? Touch it? Where is it?
Was it ever there?

Is the “I” more real than the fruit you thought about?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sun May 31, 2020 9:48 pm

So what makes a particular feeling an “I” feeling?
Yes this is the question..
I mean, a feeling related to preserve that particular group of physical elements and thoughts called "me"..

It there's no me, what should I preserve, and why..?

My feeling is that if there were no an I, I would just sit and let the time go by... After all, why should I engage in any efforts to make it succeed, if it doesn't exist?

So maybe any thought related to please the "I"person is wrong by itself.. So no grass cutting in the courtyard, no thoughts about determination to succeed in job.. Because they're just pointed to a non-existent goal

But what to do then..?

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:47 pm

My feeling is that if there were no an I, I would just sit and let the time go by... After all, why should I engage in any efforts to make it succeed, if it doesn't exist?
Yeah, you’re clearly overthinking that 😉
No “I” does not mean that the body does not need food and shelter anymore. Feelings as well as thoughts don’t go away - why should they? It’s a change of perspective, we’re talking about. Not a change of life. Things still break when you throw them and thoughts still drive you crazy from time to time.

Look how the mind tries to convince you that this structure called “I” is of some great importance...

There’s a little practise I want you to do. Make sure you have a pen and paper and 20 to 30 minutes of undisturbed time for yourself. Write down whatever you experience for at least 10 minutes. Like this:

I hear birds singing
I see my guitar
I think about tomorrow
I feel a strange feeling in the chest
... etc.

After that do the same thing but leave out all “I, my, me, mine, ...” Like this:

Birds are heard
Thoughts about tomorrow appear
A strange feeling in the chest is felt
The guitar is seen
... etc.

Tell me, which one felt more true? What was different?
Did you feel like something was missing in the second part? Is the “I” necessary for things to be perceived the way they are?

So maybe any thought related to please the "I"person is wrong by itself..
Nothing wrong with thought. They’re already there, so why fight them? It’s not like they’re asking for permission to come.
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:58 pm

Doing, with a bit of a thrilling sensation..

Thoughts like "I feel lonely", "I'm proud of myself", "they deluded me", "I want to go there", "I miss her", "I plan to do this" seem more difficult to see this way
When I is the object, or there's a strong willingness, it seems more difficult.
In any case, it feels a bit scary

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:37 am

I would like you to do the exercise again but instead of focussing on thoughts, just look at what is happening right now. Have a look at this link http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2012/05/labels.html take your time and answer all the questions. No rush.
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:07 pm

I did the exercise..
I think that I should do it often to really understand it.

My only concern is: without any kind of reference to the group of thoughts/logistical elements called "the perceiver", the phrases look incomplete..

Yes, the sound of the traffic is perceived, but the others in the room are not listening to it.. It's.. (me) the subject the phrase is referred to.
So saying "the traffic is perceived" does not describe what's happening.

So how can I describe precisely the experience without referring to an "I"..?

Otherwise it seems to me like saying the same thing with some kind of censorship, and not describing a totally different experience.

It's seems just vague, I don't know if I expressed well the concept

Any solution?

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:09 pm

Just use verbs to describe perception. Seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting.

Perceiving traffic.
Smelling food.
Hearing cars.
Seeing trees.
...

Using “... is perceived” leads to the question “by whom/what?”.

And after doing that for a while, leave out the objects. Just write:

Hearing
Seeing
Feeling
...

You can even do it in your head throughout the day.
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:44 am

Is everything okay?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
Posts: 63
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:20 am

This exercise is apparently simple, yet powerful..
I get thrills, and also some feeling of getting stunned while doing it in a conscious, dedicated time.
This feeling of empty mind is probably because my mind is still trying to concentrate on this feeling making it a thought itsel so I get somewhat dizzy.

I should dedicate more time to it, sometimes I get distracted from daily tasks, so I should enclose this practice in my routine..

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:23 am

(this or also the reason for my late reply, sorry. Having some kind of commitment forces me to keep facing this thing)

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:25 am

(And that's a good thing, of course)

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:22 am

This exercise is apparently simple, yet powerful..
Yes, it is very simple. Leaving out objects and subjects. Nobody perceiving something, nothing perceived, just perceiving. Just verbs. Seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting.

Do you feel like something is missed when describing experience with just these five verbs?

This feeling of empty mind is probably because my mind is still trying to concentrate on this feeling making it a thought itsel so I get somewhat dizzy.
When this or any other feeling comes, just say “feeling” (verb, not noun) in your mind. A few seconds later the attention will naturally move on to something else. A chair for example “seeing”. And then the sound of rain “hearing”. And so on and so on.

And when frustration comes because you’re not “doing the exercise” then just feel the feeling that arises. Hear the thoughts and look where attention goes next... it’s unpredictable. Quite exciting. 😃

And then tell me, do you tell attention where to go? Is there control about it or does it just do it’s thing, jumping around different ways of experiencing life? (Hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, feeling?)

And please let me know when answering takes more than two days.

Enjoy 💚
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
Posts: 63
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:42 am

Yes, I Think the I'm choosing the direction of thoughts..
The examples you made are mostly "passive" actions like hearing, feeling etc...
What about decisions, active thoughts, choosing a job, organizing a party.. They aren't just happening, someone or something decided to make them done, or to chiuse one direction or the other based on reasoning and character.
I had asked about that before but still I did not find 6 solution.

Regarding the exercise.. Great sensation of mind freedom, though 👍🏻
I really thank you for your advices

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:44 am

What about decisions, active thoughts, choosing a job, organizing a party.. They aren't just happening, someone or something decided to make them done, or to chiuse one direction or the other based on reasoning and character.
Hearing birds - thoughts about the name of the birds appear - thought appears “I gotta make a cup of tea” - feeling the floor as the body moves to the kitchen - thought appears “I am walking” - smelling the flowers in the kitchen - seeing the hand opening a cupboard - ...

Tell me, where’s the doing in that?
Choosing one direction or the other based on reasoning.
Yeah, thoughts appear, body moves in one direction. Maybe turns around and does a backflip. That’s happening and the “I” that claims to do that sometimes appears (as a thought) and sometimes it doesn’t appear. Nothing wrong with that.

Where does the idea to go into one direction instead of the other come from? Do you choose what idea comes into your mind or does it just show up?

Right now: mind is arguing. Different thoughts come up. Where’s the doing in that?
“Doing” is a thought that appears like everything else.
What doesn’t just appear?

Things happen, are felt, seen or smelled. Thoughts appear. And there’s awareness of these things happening, right? Try not to be aware of what’s happening. 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1... possible? No. There’s awareness of whatever shows up. Life takes many forms. 💚
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s


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