Trying to get it

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nobody5
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Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat May 02, 2020 12:18 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
things (and we) do exist, but not as the labelled entity we think it exist
Like, you know, "madiamika" concept.
I strongly think that this remains a conceptual bulls**t until we actually realize it

What are you looking for at LU?
I think the I have a few glimpses and feelings, but nothing that really lasts.
If it is true that after seeing that Santa Claus doesn't exist, you can't get back, if that is the truth I want to get to that point.
I wonder how does that take place in the Buddhist concept of realization and I would be curious of a short clarification about that.. But realizing it it would still be a big step in that direction anyway.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To have a counterpart that could see in a different way, and offer a different point of view that I could be missing.
That would speed up the process, and also force me to stick to the point and continue the research till the end

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started in the Chinese martial arts area, I met some C'han masters.
Then I had my way among most Tibetan traditions, sutra, tantra, dzogchen.
I think that there's a lot of cultural superstructure that sometimes people rely on, missing the point.
This big display of teachings, methods deities etc kind of creates distraction and confusion to me.
For me, basically the imprint of the raw, essential approach like that Bodhidarma or the natural way of Lao Tzu remains what allow me to focus on what really matters (but I didn't find a master with this approach)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Tue May 05, 2020 7:01 am

Hello Zeppeppe, nice to meet you.

It sounds like you're fed up with teachings and concepts and just want truth - I admire that focus and I'm happy to help.
I probably don't have to tell you this but please leave everything else (videos, books about enlightenment and so on) aside for the duration of this process - we don't want any distractions.

This is not a discussion or a normal conversation. Instead I will ask you questions that you have to answer with 100% honesty.

You want to "continue the research till the end".
What do you think this end will look like, what will change?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue May 05, 2020 10:10 pm

Hello,
thank you for your reply.
Well, actually I can't have an idea of what will be going on..
I just had some shorts, partial insights, and my feeling was of spaciousness, creativity, and freedom.
For sure, my idea is that realizing the no-self will make my thoughts way simpler and more effective.
I think that I would make better decisions, and take the consequences easier.
After all, if there's nobody, what could go wrong?

Of course, I have been a spiritual seeker since when I was a boy, and above all I have met many people and masters, mostly westerners.
Yes, in a remote (but even not so much) part of my mind there's also the kind of thought that I'll become a little "special".. After all, I would have realized what such a few people really get.
I know that that thought too is.. a thought, a crystallized idea of self that could be an obstacle.
I failed so much, then my mind eagerly wants a prize 😁

I know it's silly, but it's human, and I must admit it sincerely. So I'm ready to give it up too

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue May 05, 2020 10:14 pm

P.S. I really thank you. I'm really excited to start this journey. I always wanted to go deeper and have a long, deep dialogue with a skilled guide.

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Wed May 06, 2020 6:02 pm

I'm excited for this journey aswell. :)
if there's nobody, what could go wrong?
Right, there's no one seperate from life. Seeing this or not doesn't change the truth.
the kind of thought that I'll become a little "special"
You are unique like every leaf on a tree, that's pretty normal - nothing special about it.
my mind eagerly wants a prize
Yeah, the mind wants a prize, it's working so hard in trying to understand but what is it's job, what does it actually do?

Please write whatever immediate experiences (feelings, body reactions, thoughts) arise when you read this:
There is no self at all, never was, never will be. No self seperate from the whole happening. No manager, no thinker, no doer, no experiencer. There is life flowing freely, as experiences, as feelings, thoughts, actions, reactions.
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Wed May 06, 2020 8:33 pm

My feelings are of spaciousness. Vastness.
Simplicity. Memories of when I was child, that simple immediateness.

Also, a bit of scare of being on the edge of a big void.
What's over there? Will I lose the sense of life? Will everything become tasteless, or will my love for my loved ones be lost, making me an indifferent empty droid?

Bodily, I feel a kind of tingling.. My skin tightens. Like my attention has increased. Something flows

In other occasions, before, reading some book quotes, I had a great feeling of spaciousness. A brisk creativity that made me do unexpected jokes.
That remembered me the funny jokes of a Zen master.
And the simple sanity of when I was younger, happier.

But, I'm still on this side; no point of no return is passed.

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Thu May 07, 2020 7:06 am

Look at the sense of being. The knowing that 'I am'. Are you aware right now? The feeling that comes up as the answer to that question - look at it.
In this process nothing real will disappear, only the belief in unreal will drop.

Fear is never an enemy. It's working for you, protecting you. It does not want things to change, it protects truth from being seen. It's a defense mechanism.
Just look at the feeling - where is it in the body? Don't push it away, let it stay. Hug it like an old friend, respect it.
Then look behind fear.. what do you see?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Fri May 08, 2020 6:29 am

What does "Aware" really mean for you?

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Fri May 08, 2020 7:06 am

Are you aware? Yes or no? Even to say no you have to be aware. You know that you exist. You know of experience happening. It’s simply knowing. Being aware = knowing.
Can you deny your own existence?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Fri May 08, 2020 4:41 pm

Of corse not.. I know that I exist and that I'm knowing.
What should I do with that?
Of course until now this did not get me to the realization of no-self
What further step should I do?

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sat May 09, 2020 8:34 am

You want something to change in the future. We're not interested in a 'future', we look at what's here right now - that's where we find truth.

So what do you want to do with this, where are you trying to get to?

Do you need to do anything in order to be?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Sat May 09, 2020 3:02 pm

Right. True. Actually, I'm unwittingly projecting a future where I'll realize all that.
But projection is the opposite of what's useful.

Anyway, what I meant is that while reflecting, I stay closer to reality.. but out of this time, I get involved in all kinds of activities and get distracted.

I was wandering about how to act and stay aware at the same time, without consciously engaging in reflection..

Bofi
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby Bofi » Sun May 10, 2020 3:35 pm

Take a close look at moments where reflection happens and moments where distractions appear - are you doing these things? What do you actually do that is not happening by itself?

Acting and staying aware at the same time.. ok, when you get absorbed in a task, does awareness disappear? Are you no longer aware of what's happening?
if the path in front of you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s

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nobody5
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 12:16 pm

Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:14 pm

Sorry, maybe for browser cache I didn't see your reply..

Well, actually I should say that while I'm absorbed into a task or just distracted, I'm aware the a certain degree of what I'm doing..
But I'm not paying attention whether there's a "me" doing all that or not.

So if I don't put in it a conscious effort, I don't process in the no-self awareness.

Also, I try to put aside/keep quiet the sensation of "me" doing something, to watch the thoughts run freely.. But it's not an effortless process

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:15 pm

*So if I don't put in it a conscious effort, I don't PROGRESS in the no-self awareness


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