Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:36 pm

i'm watching a movie so that i can short out this scary commentary... :)

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:05 pm

Yes Tiger.
As you say it is just a commentary.
It is ok and there is nothing to be afraid of.

If there is fear, focus on fear.
Notice, that it's protection mechanism. The fear itself is like a door, it holds you from looking behind the door. But it's just fear. It’s ok for it to be here, it is only doing its job. Just let it be there, acknowledge its presence with respect and gratitude, check where it feels physically in the body. Notice sensation.

What is fear itself?
What is it protecting?
What needs to be protected?
What is that feels threatened?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:57 pm

What is fear itself?
Bunch of sensations across the body at once. Some at the heart, Some back of the head.. Sometimes even calf muscle starts to shake.. increased heart rate
What is it protecting?
What needs to be protected?
What is that feels threatened?
Not sure but something vulnerable.
Slept quite well, the commentary reduced quite a bit. I'll look again today :)

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:26 pm

Would you like to go on your investigation Tiger ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:59 pm

I was scared of the commentary and fear and so have reduced the looking during the day.
But let's continue looking.. The particular feeling does not exist anymore today.
Do guide me to where i have to look now.



cheers! :)

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:15 pm

I was scared of the commentary and fear and so have reduced the looking during the day.
But let's continue looking.. The particular feeling does not exist anymore today.
Do guide me to where i have to look now.



cheers! :)

Yes. Came and gone right.. Thoughts(commentary)/images/sensation/sound all appears and disappears.
As you see it is all ok. There was never a time that it was not ok.
Anytime fear arise ask it to reveal why it’s here, what it is trying to tell you, ask the fear to share its wisdom.
If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected, right?
Honor the feeling. Bow to it, thank it for doing its job.
Notice, it is here to protect, fear is really love in disguise. It is only showing you where to look.

Lets go with love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:20 pm

Now that you know that feeling behind the face/eyes cannot be a you right ?
It is just a feeling.
What is a feeling without a thought ? Nothing.. If you don't label /(think) what you are eating what is it more than a texture in your mouth. Unknown. You can say it is there, there is something in my mouth but means nothing.
Same as these emotions/feelings/sensations.
They are like labelled vibrations.

What about control ?
How do you feel about this ?
Do you think that you control things or can you see how automatic they appear and dissapear ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:34 pm

If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected, right?
Honor the feeling. Bow to it, thank it for doing its job.
Notice, it is here to protect, fear is really love in disguise. It is only showing you where to look.
That's such a unique way of looking at unpleasantness. I will try this.. But what I have noticed is the mind reacts immediately to such things. Once the movement begins, the momentum builds up. How can i consciously respond to such things...
And thank you for the link regarding fear and shall try it.. And is this true even in the case of intense painful sensations?
Some sensations are pleasant but many are not... Would it help to look at them from this context.

What about control ?
How do you feel about this ?
Do you think that you control things or can you see how automatic they appear and dissapear ?
Like breathing.. the movement is happening and sometimes the thought labels it as I am breathing. But upon looking closely, breathing was already happening.
Likewise with controlling, there is definitely movement of controlling and sometimes there is thought that claims I am controlling. But again on looking its the same scenario as breathing..
I really can't sit and correct thought patterns ... I am leaving it to subside with time and repeated looking

Also something I have noticed is mind is using "I" in the context of communicating with someone. For ex, you are with ur friend and you say "I want a burger and she wants fries". Now remove the other person in reality.. and mind is still communicating as "I want a coke" "I want to sleep" "I am bored"... It's communicating... The other friend is a trigger.. but mind is habitual to that manner of doing things...


Attention.
There was something I noticed recently. Like the example "I am breathing". Breathing was happening right.. But attention moved towards that sensations and then thought gave a comment. But once u are careful and look, breathing was happening and I is a thought.. And it's doing the same communication business..
Similarly "I am aware of sensations". Aware-ring must already be happening right? But attention moved towards the sensations and then the thought gave a comment.
But without attention there is no recognition that aware-ring of something is being aware-ring
Also attention seems like a important trigger point for the "I" structure..
Is it possible to be stay in awareness instead of looking via attention...

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:25 pm

Now it is a good timing for us to look again the automatic nature of attention which actually you looked on our page 2

but it is good to remember

Sit down and relax. Observe this focus of attention... see how it wanders. It simply focusses on whatever happens in the moment. From a sound to a color, from a thought to another..
and look can you really control attention ?
Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?
Are you really in charge of attention or again a thought says now " i rotated my attention from here to there"
:)

and i will remind you to read this wonderful article from Ilona showing how labels used for communication / language.
Read this please and make the exercise there and report me what comes..

See you Tiger..
Going good :)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:04 am

Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?
Are you really in charge of attention or again a thought says now " i rotated my attention from here to there"
:)
There is constant movement of attention. And yes thought says! That's just the way of communication for it:)
But it's clear that
I is not a special thought
Only thing a thought or image can do is exist or not
There is no point behind the eyes where a concentration of "I" exists


exercise by Ilona

When the label "I" was used, there was tensing up of certain parts of the body. Specially where i imagine thoughts come from.. This changes day to day.. Right now it's in the forehead.

When the experience was just reported, there was ease. At the same time a little resistance in thoughts bcz it was trying to suggest "I" am hearing etc.. But i was re-questioning what "I" was....

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:44 am

As we were on the topic of Attention.

I'm not sure what attention truly is but the nearest analogy is a torch or spot light.

Is it possible that the source of attention or the "focused light" be from or behind the eyes? or at-least around that region.
Bcz objects change.. but attention seems to move towards something and after it's work is done it seems to move back here.. And on careful observation, when it moves again it seems to move from the region around the eyes


*i'm using the word head for communication. i do understand in reality that's not the case

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:39 pm

Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?
Are you really in charge of attention or again a thought says now " i rotated my attention from here to there"
:)
There is constant movement of attention. And yes thought says! That's just the way of communication for it:)
But it's clear that
I is not a special thought
Only thing a thought or image can do is exist or not
There is no point behind the eyes where a concentration of "I" exists


exercise by Ilona

When the label "I" was used, there was tensing up of certain parts of the body. Specially where i imagine thoughts come from.. This changes day to day.. Right now it's in the forehead.

When the experience was just reported, there was ease. At the same time a little resistance in thoughts bcz it was trying to suggest "I" am hearing etc.. But i was re-questioning what "I" was....
Ok. I see that you have taken what i wanted to point from Ilona's exercise. Thank you.
Resistance, ease will happen that's ok. That will come and go, neither a head is nor parts of the body is a you" you see this right ? :)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:44 pm

As we were on the topic of Attention.

I'm not sure what attention truly is but the nearest analogy is a torch or spot light.

Is it possible that the source of attention or the "focused light" be from or behind the eyes? or at-least around that region.
Bcz objects change.. but attention seems to move towards something and after it's work is done it seems to move back here.. And on careful observation, when it moves again it seems to move from the region around the eyes


*i'm using the word head for communication. i do understand in reality that's not the case


i can understand your effort to understand and describe things but no need for more thoughts.
Even the word "attention" is a label.
Best definition we can make so far is "It just is.."
It is enough for us to see that, you have seen the automatic nature of "attention" / "how thoughts/things appear"

Have you seen ?

:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:48 pm

Hey Tiger,
Can you watch this video and tell me what comes,
Thank you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNwED9J ... lXH0sua1a8
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:07 pm

and can you tell me please which one of the following list you still believe ?

1-I AM MY NAME /
2-I AM / HAVE / IN THIS BODY OR MIND,
3-THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE,
4-THERE IS CONTROL, I CAN CONTROL THINGS
5-I HAVE FREE WILL,
6-I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS,
7-YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, NOW, PAST FUTURE HISTORY ETC. IS REAL
8-THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
9-THERE IS A FEELING AND IT IS A PROOF OF A SEPERATE I / SELF / ME
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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