Knowing what I see

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Hi vivslack,

Thank you for your fervent motivation to see.

So it is. Sensations triggering fear will continue appearing here and there. The habit of an existing self is such that it will return in certain situations.
'if i don't have a purpose I might feel lost'
We already know these are thoughts, but the question is, what is there to have a purpose? If the purpose is just for a character, a person, what is underneth all the stories of the self? What is there that is never affected by all those stories?

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:42 am

Thank you so much for your support & qns. Life feels so rich, very alive, diverse. Dancing yesterday I really saw life coming out in many forms, rather than thoughts of 'that person doing that' - beautiful.

There is no 'one' to have a purpose. That concept has guided me this far and felt useful, but also I see thinking, sensations, actions all happening, dependent on lots of other conditions, and thoughts naming them / having ideas about them afterwards. I am grateful for that concept of purpose, whilst knowing it's only an idea.

What is it that was never affected by all those stories. Hmm...

Life happening, & awareness. Beautifully simple.

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:58 am

There's used to be a feeling of emotions, of not enough, and my mind said it was because 'i needed a purpose', something was lacking. But in the present, in awareness, with that alive-ness, there's nothing missing. Wow!

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:50 pm

Wonderful!!

Yes, life is all that is, isn't it marvellous??

If life is all that happens in every so called moment, does life need any "one" to choose what is next?
At the moment you are reading this, at this very moment, can anything different be happening?
I see thinking, sensations, actions all happening, dependent on lots of other conditions, and thoughts naming them
You nailed it.
Think about a decision you made in the past. Could anything different happen in that very moment?
In actual experience, how did/does it work? What is the concept "decision" or "choice" pointing to?

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:58 pm

Sensations or thinking or actions happen, the mind tells a story about it. That's all. There's no one to choose.

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:13 am

When sensation of hanger appears? Is there a decision to eat or not to eat?

How does it work? Please explain how you see it.

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:13 am

The instinct to eat seems to appear, there's no direct experience of any decision happening.

Sometimes theres then thinking about whether to eat or not - those thoughts appear, a decision is made, all of this happening without a self controlling it.

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:03 am

Good!

What is seeing life happening? Is there anything "outside" life witnessing it?

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:18 pm

Pure awareness, always there, never changing, without limits, experiences rising and fading away.

Emotions rise up, and sometimes strongly, the thought that goes with it to explain is something like a longing for peace, but when I look there's no I to be found.

Thanks so much for your support & patience.

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:38 am

Without the intention of being wordy.

Awareness can be a tricky word, easy to say, let's say. What is awareness pointing to in actual experience? Is a sound heard? And a colour seen?
Pure awareness, always there, never changing, without limits, experiences rising and fading away.
You wrote, awareness is always there but experiences rise and fade away.
Are there experiences, separated ones from others or there is just experience/THIS?
Emotions rise up, and sometimes strongly, the thought that goes with it to explain is something like a longing for peace, but when I look there's no I to be found.
Yes, the system continues working as always but no one is there authoring or owning the system. Our habitual patterns will recreate the illusion, as if we remove the watch from our wrist, from time to time we will look at the wrist in order to know the time and maybe feel frustration for not remembering we are not waring the watch anymore, until we just assimilate the new situation.

You are very welcome :)

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:23 am

Ah, that's helpful... just experience, always changing.

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:01 am

Good!


Do you have a body?

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:28 pm

Hmm. There's a concept/belief 'i have a body', but in direct experience there is seeing, hearing, sensations, taste - experiences associated with 'my body'. Recently in yoga with eyes closed in movement there were just sensations with space all around, without the concept of body, at least briefly, then the concept 'my body moving' was back. But in my direct experience there is no body that 'i have'.

When there's a thought 'i' or 'mine' or 'I am doing' i notice that they are thoughts and not to be found, no separate being in control of anything.

There is still feelings of 'wanting', for example wanting deep connection with someone. Asking 'who is this i that wants something, and what does it want' etc doesnt seem to loosen it. I can see the thoughts and go to the direct sensations, but for now at least the wanting keeps coming back. Maybe thats natural, how it is to be human, or maybe it changes over time with this new way of seeing?

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Luisa
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby Luisa » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:54 pm

Recently in yoga with eyes closed in movement there were just sensations with space all around, without the concept of body, at least briefly, then the concept 'my body moving' was back. But in my direct experience there is no body that 'i have'.
So it is, there are experiences which thoughts label afterwords as my body, my hand, my knee. Our faculty of seeing has become distorted by imputing inherent existence to what we see.
Closing your eyes and looking at experience, can you say when your body ends and the chair starts?
There is still feelings of 'wanting', for example wanting deep connection with someone. Asking 'who is this i that wants something, and what does it want' etc doesnt seem to loosen it. I can see the thoughts and go to the direct sensations, but for now at least the wanting keeps coming back. Maybe thats natural, how it is to be human, or maybe it changes over time with this new way of seeing?
The person wants, desires, enjoys, cries, but the person has been seen as illusory, therefore illusory are her wants, desires, etc. Is it relevant if it changes or not? Is there a desire for it to change? What is that desire in actual experience?

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vivslack
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Re: Knowing what I see

Postby vivslack » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:12 pm

There is no point in direct experience where the body ends and the chair starts - only sensations in awareness.

This last day there's a shift - in direct experience there's always just sensations and thoughts, no 'wanting to change' - it comes back often but each time theres that. It feels like desire to change until i pause, look, and then...just sensations and thoughts. With strong emotions it seems a case of doing this process over more times and with patience.


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