Ready to LOOK

[Foxen]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The idea of this person-character that I was assigned as a child and have taken on as my identity is not me. The story of her is literally made up. I perpetuate this story by dragging it from moment to moment through thoughts that I relate to as her memories and plans for the future. This body is not me either.

What are you looking for at LU?
I would love support in EXPERIENCING a clear-seeing that there is no real, inherent 'self'. I recognize that I get sucked into books and theoretical understanding... and I'm grateful for what I've learned, because it showed me that this is even possible. But I recognize that it's time to put all that aside and LOOK. There's a knowing that it's time to slow down and let my direct experience teach me. And also... this is not my default setting and I know I would benefit from guidance in implementing this, practically. I basically need my butt kicked a bit. Get out of your head and be here with this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm completely open to how the conversation unfolds. In my imagination, I assume my guide will ask me questions to understand how I'm perceiving things and will point to places where I'm making assumptions that are unseen by me. I also assume they will give me strategies or practices from time-to-time, based on our conversations. That said, my only real expectation would be that I'm treated with respect.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I had been "seeking" self-improvement for about 20 years before I watched some videos from Angelo Dillulo about nonduality and went, "WHAT?" I had never heard of such a thing, but I knew there was truth in what he was saying. That was about 2 years ago and since then, learning about all of this (books, videos, etc.), journaling, and meditation have been the most "alive" parts of my life. I don't have any regimented meditation practice, but I do enjoy just sitting and do it several times a week for maybe 30-60 minutes. I have tried using "inquiry" questions, like the ones Angelo uses ("who am I?", "What is Mu?", "What is this?") , but they've never quite resonated with me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[jrm72]

Hello Foxen,

My name is James and I can be your guide.

This works best in a Q&A style rather than a discussion, because a discussion is more intellectualising, and what is needed is LOOKING. Also best if you post every day. If you know you can’t do this, tell me and a more suitable guide will find you.


Have you read the info at these two links? (please confirm) -

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041



There is no one judging answers here, so be as honest as possible in your answers and inquiry.

This exploration is based on direct experience (DE) - sight, smell, taste, sound, physical sensation and observed thoughts. Analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.
All other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on can be distractions. Put your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is.

Answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Using the quote function makes things clearer as the thread progresses.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT." -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ



What would you like for me to call you?


You say -

is not my default setting

What is the default setting?
And what is being set?

I knew there was truth in what he was saying

Don't take anything I say as truth, just because it sounds good or somehow resonates with you. Alway verify everything in your own direct experience.





What do you think is the reason that you haven't woken up yet?



❤️🖖

[Foxen]

Hi James! Thank you so much for agreeing to guide me and jumping in so quickly. You can call me Felicity and I will post daily.

I've read the two links you provided and watched the video on quoting - Thank you.

And I will leave my analysis and philosophy out of this... I'm sure you'll remind me if I stray.

What is the default setting?
And what is being set?

The "default setting" I was referring to is a conditioned pattern this human displays. It's the seeking of information and expertise as a way to avoid experiencing what's here. (Especially when "what's here" has been labeled with the thought "bad" or "uncomfortable".) As for "what is being set"... I don't seem to have words for how to reply, but it has the body feeling of being in a box... confined.

What do you think is the reason that you haven't woken up yet?

It's funny... after I submitted the request for a guide yesterday, I began to read Gateless Gate Crashers and it's so obvious the error I've been making. I think I was still looking for some magical, whizz-bang AHA experience, even though I know damned well that's not what I'm "supposed" to do. But it was sneakily there beneath the surface. I can see that all that's required is clearly see that there is no separate self. And so last night lying in bed was very... buzzy. Lots of energy moving through my body as I investigated the possibility that there really is no self. I've said it before. I've "believed it" before. But I don't think I'd ever really sat with it and investigated. It definitely felt different than ever before. I sense that I'm very close but just hadn't let it touch me until now. Keeping it at arms length with ideas about what it all "meant."

[jrm72]

Hello Felicity,

I can see that all that's required is clearly see that there is no separate self.

If there is no separate self, what is it that sees?


❤️🖖

[Foxen]

If there is no separate self, what is it that sees?

When I ask myself that question and wait quietly, the best word I can come up with is "everything." This big, all-expansive something sees.

A doubt thought just came as soon as I typed that. "You're just parroting back what you've heard other people say. You don't really experience that." I'm just watching that thought. It's meaningless, but I wanted to share it, in case it's helpful.

[jrm72]

Good Evening Felicity,

You don't really experience that.

You've hit the nail on the head, it's all experience, nothing else.


There's nothing to learn, just things to experience.
So let's try something -



Hold a hand out in front of you.
Now turn the palm over, then back again, keep repeating these movements.
Watch like a hawk.
Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Who chose which hand to use?
Who decided whether the hand started palm up or palm down?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
Track any decision point when a thought made the decision to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
Now move the hand in a random pattern.
Who or what chose the pattern?



❤️🖖

[Foxen]

Ooooh... you caught me conceptualizing without my realizing it! I love that my "doubt thought" was so insightful! LOL

I played with this a bit. My experience is that the hand is making all of those movements independently. I tried to "catch" something (a thought, a "me," an "all-expansive everything", etc.) in the act of making those decisions or controlling it, but none of those were found.

How is the movement controlled?

The movement happens on its own, spontaneously.

Does a thought control it?

No. In fact, I had the thought "flip over, hand!" arise and my hand defied it!

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No. None whatsoever.

Who chose which hand to use?
Who decided whether the hand started palm up or palm down?

I definitely didn't even notice a decision being made. One hand just started doing it. (my right)

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

You made the suggestion to do this activity, which drew my attention to move to my hand. From there, it was almost as if I was waiting for some kind of creature to do a thing. There was a thought that my hand might turn over soon, but I never knew quite when that would happen. It was a surprise each time.

Track any decision point when a thought made the decision to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

I can't find one. I've looked repeatedly.

Can you find anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No. It's just happening without any observable chooser or controller.

Now move the hand in a random pattern.
Who or what chose the pattern?

I have no idea who or what chose the pattern. It was very fancy though. :)

[jrm72]

Morning Felicity,


So no control over actions.


For a fun thing to do -


Type out first 10 words that come to mind and post them here.


Here's my 10, I have no idea what the first one will be let alone the 10th -

augment horizon bliss words love orange pilot blue floor run

(actually they weren't the strict first 10, there seemed to be a selection process going on that said yes and no to the words that came up, but none of the process of word appearance or selection was known.

Let me know what it's like for you?


❤️🖖

[Foxen]

Good morning, James!

Type out first 10 words that come to mind and post them here.

This is fun!

person, fluff, sequence, matter, bubble, correct, dingdong, umbrella, microphone, samba

THAT WAS SO WEIRD.

I also experienced a sort of selection process. For example, one of the words that came up was "Mike," the name, but then I had a thought that that didn't count and it switched to "microphone." What is evaluating this kind of nonsense and making up these arbitrary rules of the game?!

And furthermore, what is evaluating what I'm typing as I'm typing and sometimes going back and removing words, changing words, restating ideas, etc.? It seems to just happen on its own. Like a software process running by itself. Pausing at each period, there's a sort of waiting for what will come next. And then I don't even know how my fingers know how to create the words that appear as thoughts. They just do.

Funny how this is so overlooked every day, all day for decades!

[jrm72]

Evening Felicity,

So no control over thoughts.


Try this -

The menu is not the meal
The map is not the territory
The word is not the thing


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise or search for a picture of an apple.

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.


❤️🖖

[Foxen]

Good Evening, James.
There is RESISTANCE to this little activity. There's a feeling that I would name "confused" or "overwhelmed" appearing. Overwhelm based on looking at an apple?!

I'm going to stay with this little task this evening, and I'll report back later or tomorrow, but I wanted to drop a quick note to share my experience. Thanks for the challenge!

[Foxen]

Hi James,
As I'm looking, there are a lot of observations and thoughts that are arising and I feel like noting them here - for better or worse. So I'm just opening up this reply and will keep adding notes as I do this.

-Is there really an apple here? YES. I see it. It's literally right there. What the hell?

-Why would I ignore all of the signs and symptoms of an apple? This feels like a form of denial. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

-How weird. This apple has something rattling in it (I assume a seed). I've never noticed that before in another apple.

-Going to try asking, "what is this?"

What is known for sure?

-Ok, the things I can observe directly are: a circular-ish area of concentrated color - a gradation of red with yellow splotches and yellow pin-sized spots. I can pick it up and turn it around and I hear a rattling sound. The texture feels smooth. On one side, there is a small black circle that I can put my finger inside surrounded by flecks of green and black. On the opposite side, there are 5 bumps surrounding a little tuft of green with brown ends. I don't smell anything. I didn't taste it. I observe thoughts saying things like "this is a freaking APPLE!!!!!".

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

The thought said "this is a freaking APPLE!!!!" and I will admit, I do not directly experience any meaning behind that word that are not other thoughts. If I follow it, I imagine cutting into it... that it will be white inside and juicy. That it will smell sweet. That I could take a bite and it would taste crispy and sweet and juicy in my mouth. That I would enjoy it.

But alas, these are all thoughts... assumptions. I do not observe any of this directly.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

I'm struggling with this one a bit. My resistance still wants to say there's an apple here! But if I keep it to what I can OBSERVE, then it's only what I listed above under "what is known for sure". Everything else that carries the meaning of "apple" is made up of thoughts.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Since "apple" is an idea, then... begrudgingly... no. :)

This feels sticky, James. I see what you're pointing to here and yet there's a defiance in me that wants to dismiss it somehow. It's a thought that sounds like, "This is silly... of course it's an apple."

I'll keep playing.

[jrm72]

Hi Felicity,

"this is a freaking APPLE!!!!!".

Part 1 - Of course it's a freaking apple, who are these idiots who say it's not. If you couldn't see an apple, there'd be something seriously wrong with you. so you are functioning normally.

Part 2 - Nobody is saying there's not an apple there. As we function in life we see apples and eat them, we see doors and thankfully walk through them. We label everything, as a mental shortcut, so we can get on with life.

Part 3 - Once we label something, we stop looking, we stop seeing what's there. The recognition system in the brain has done its job - label "apple" yay 🥳, got that move on to the next thing. The words (labels) get in the way. And not just nouns (the names of things) but all other words to - love, hate, enjoy, flavour, running - all of them.

Part 4 - Day to day use labels, but when you can peel them away, see what's actually there.



A personal story may make this clearer -


I was feeling overwhelmed, but seemed to have the wherewithal in the moment to notice it.
I noted that 'overwhelmed' is a label and so dropped it.
I then had the feelings of pressure in my head and a weight on my chest.
More labels, so I dropped those.
I then had bodily sensations, more labels to drop.
It gets harder to describe from here because the labels were no longer words, but feelings about sensations.
Kept dropping everything.
This now becomes impossible to describe because obviously there were no labels.
The best I can do is to say there was an absence of everything and nothing else, no me, no time, nothing.

Peaceful is the nearest word I can come up with.

It seems to be different for everyone, from feeling like being hit with a ton of bricks, to, this is it, to, oh it happened weeks ago and I didn't realise. And there's an infinite number of ways to get there.

❤️🖖

[Foxen]

Good Morning James,
This is SO SO helpful. You aren't telling me to pretend an apple isn't there. I don't know why I got that stuck in my mind.

Yes. Having a shortcut to knowing an apple is in front of you is useful. And also... I can back my way out of that certainty. Stripping away each label to SEE the assumptions and the thoughts that are at work.

And thank you so very much for sharing your personal experience. For whatever reason, this is 'easier' when I think of feelings and emotions. I can easily see the label 'overwhelmed' and drop it and feel the unnamable whatever-it-is that underlies. And you're pointing me to the idea that I can keep going further with that. That feels right.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks again!

[jrm72]

Afternoon Felicity,

back my way out of that certainty.

The thought that came up here was - don't back out, walk through.





Let me know if I'm giving you too much, sometimes its good to let things digest.


If all's well, try this -


Butt Chair Exercise


Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them?
Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.


❤️🖖