Spiritual Seeker Stuck in Their Silly Head

[butterfly33]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
On my spiritual path, I have increased my understanding that there is this universal connectivity. That in some way, we are all connected, of one consciousness so to speak, and because of this, there can be no real, inherent 'self.' We are one, consciousness experiencing itself. However, I feel as if I still do not fully understand what that means.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance. I have this current sensation of desperation in my spiritual seeking. As if I'm searching the house for my missing glasses, when they've been on my head the whole time. I am hopeful the generous community of LU can help me recognize that I haven't misplaced my glasses, they're just sitting on top of my head. I struggle with getting stuck in my mind, of trying to understand, of logically trying to grasp something that I inherently know is beyond mind, is beyond logic. I am looking to let go of this 'seeker' part, and looking to just 'be.' However, this 'seeker' part gets in the way. As I'm writing, I'm realizing it's so difficult to communicate this with words--it just leads to more 'mind traps.' However, I am hopeful LU can support me with pointing out--the glasses are just on top of my head. And I am hoping when I put them on, I will be able to clearly see what has always been.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
In a sense, I am trying to go into this process with as few expectations as possible. However, as a human, I recognize expectations will always be there. My struggles have been getting stuck in my head, trying to put puzzle pieces together, using logic and analysis and words to try to understand something that from what I understand thus far, is indescribable. I am hopeful a guided conversation can get me out of head and into 'being,' something I have struggled with for a majority of my life in several different ways. Perhaps the details of that are not important, but there seems to be a consistent theme and pattern of getting trapped in my own thoughts, in my head. And I am hopeful a guided conversation can challenge this in me. I am also hopeful a guided conversation can take a 'no bullshit' approach (oops am I allowed to say that? lol). But seriously, sometimes I need that directness, and I certainly need to be called out on my BS when it shows up.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I recall being drawn to spirituality from a young age, especially due to growing up in a home where we did not strictly practice any religion. My father is Jewish, my mother is Christian, and I grew up learning about both religions, celebrating both holidays. However, it was always confusing to me as a child that people would have these differing beliefs dictating their lives. I have much gratitude for the way my parents approached religion. They allowed me to ask questions, encouraged me to think for myself, and allowed me to explore what resonated with me. I was drawn to magic and metaphysical practices from a young age. In college, I began to practice yoga and meditation. In my training as a mental health clinician and drama therapist, we engaged in several experiential practices that utilized mindfulness and meditation which increased my interest in pursuing a spiritual path. I fell into (and am presently trying to crawl my way out of) what I conceptualize as a spiritual ego trap. I became very interested in witchcraft, Wicca, crystals, astrology, herbalism--anything trending on spiritual TikTok. As I've continued on the path as seeker, I recognize that these are all still 'materials' in a sense. In a way, my spiritual interests, particularly in the realms of metaphysics, were perhaps escapism. I used to have a regular yoga and meditation practice, and I feel as if I had many insights from those practices, as well as many benefits--decreased monkey mind, increased sense of awareness, increased relaxation. But there was still something missing. In my current job, I spend a lot of time driving. This has allowed me to listen to several audiobooks and podcasts, fueling my identification with this 'seeker.' I've listened to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, and several others, but still couldn't find the 'answer.' As my 'seeker' part grew more desperate, I have spent several hours on the internet--specifically YouTube and Reddit--trying to find this 'answer' whatever it is. The missing piece that I have known all along. In my internet deep dives I was introduced to non-duality and have attempted to increase my understanding of this. At this time, I feel like I know very little about a lot of things, if that makes sense. I've dabbled in several practices, read about several practices, but am a master of none. I have tried to meditate on self-inquiry questions, however I still feel lost, but also as if the 'answer' is right there, I just need to open my eyes.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Good morning (here in Colorado, US),

I haven't misplaced my glasses, they're just sitting on top of my head.

You pretty much nailed it. It's more that there are no glasses, but that's close.

I struggle with getting stuck in my mind, of trying to understand, of logically trying to grasp something that I inherently know is beyond mind, is beyond logic.

That won't stop. You will simply stop believing it.


My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

I meant to edit the bit about every day. Just do your best. It helps to keep the momentum up

[butterfly33]

Hi Stacy! Greetings from Florida, US. Thank you for your reply, I would be very grateful for you to be my guide.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Em, and I am in EST.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

I can confirm that these both have been read and reviewed.

How will life change?

I’m not sure life will change. I imagine life will carry on and continue as life. So perhaps it is more accurate to say life will continue to change, as life is always changing.

How will you change?

I will be aware that there is no separate ‘self.’ Aside from that, I am unsure of how much I will change. I hope to learn to flow with life, and move through life with greater awareness.

What will be different?

I will know the truth. I will know that there is no separate ‘self.’

What is missing?

I am taking this to mean, what do I feel is missing in my life. However, if I am misunderstanding, please feel free to correct me! Probably nothing is missing. It feels as if my knowing that there is no separate ‘self’ is missing. I understand conceptually, but I don’t know it.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

I understand, thank you for your clear expectations. I apologize for this first response being a bit delayed, as I did not check my email this weekend. However, now that this process has begun, I will be sure to check regularly.

It is great to connect with you, and thank you for being willing to guide me on this journey!

With Gratitude,
Em

[Anastacia42]

Hi Em,

Great. You are welcome.

Your expectations are pretty reasonable. Thank you.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Much love,

[butterfly33]

Hi Stacy,

You're welcome!

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

This is a question I have been meditating on. Confusion comes up, because my "self" knows that it cannot know it--if that makes any sort of sense? I can become caught in a thought loop.

When I continue to meditate on the question I experience a sort of dissociative sensation. Although, dissociative seems almost too clinical of a word to describe the sensation. It feels difficult to put into words.

With gratitude,
Em

[butterfly33]

Was just sitting with this a bit longer, there is also a sense of expansiveness.

[Anastacia42]

a sense of expansiveness.

That's because it's true. We'll get to that shortly.

But now...

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.




Loving

[butterfly33]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Am I understanding correctly, to presently observe the direct experience because this is the only way to know the truth, as in the sock example.

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

I am noting to be intentional about this, I can sense the emotion, but have difficulties describing the sensations outside of using emotion words as labels. I will continue to dig deeper with this.

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Noting to be intentional with this as well, I feel as if this is an area I have become stuck on in the past.

Thankful for the guidance!

Kindly,
Em

[Anastacia42]

Hi Em,

Am I understanding correctly, to presently observe the direct experience because this is the only way to know the truth, as in the sock example.

Yes. That's correct.

The pointers given here will help you to see what is Direct Experience.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[butterfly33]

Hey Stacy,

Those are the only items any experience can be.

<3

As I am sitting here now:

Seeing a computer screen, simply = image/color
Smelling candle, simply = smell
Feeling the coolness of the fan, simply = sensation
Tasting the last sip of water, simply = taste
Hearing the the sound of the keys on the keyboard, simply = sound
Thought about what to think about, simply = thought

Will continue to notice this evening, and I will be intentional about observing my direct experience throughout the day tomorrow, and will report back with my observations. Thank you Stacy!

With gratitude,
Em

[Anastacia42]

So far, so good. It's a good practice.

Here's your next pointer, unless you want more time on that one. This one takes it a little farther:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Post this list.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

Post this list, too.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

Relax, have fun. Looking forward to your replies.


Loving,

[butterfly33]

Thank you Stacy! I will practice this tomorrow, and post after I have completed the mind labeling experience.

Relax, have fun.

You know "self" too well. :P

I hope you have a good evening!

Warmly,
Em

[butterfly33]

Good evening, Stacy!

I am sitting on a bed
I am holding a pen
I am hearing the sound of the pen on the paper
I am hearing a dog bark
I am breathing
I am smelling incense
I am breathing
I am feeling warmth on my back
I am blinking
I am breathing
I am feeling tightness in my thigh
I am hearing crickets
I am seeing a cat
I am breathing
I am feeling tightness in my throat
I am feeling my heartbeat
I am feeling hungry
I am thinking about writing
I am hearing the door open
I am feeling tension in my abdomen
I am feeling relaxed in my shoulders
I am seeing worlds [sic] on a page
I am seeing a phone

Seeing the paper
Seeing a hand
Breathing
Hearing writing on paper
Hearing a bird
Smelling incense
Breathing
Feeling pressure in abdomen
Feeling tight in shoulders
Hearing a dog bark
Breathing
Blinking
Feeling pressure in lower back
Breathing
Breathing
Hearing airplane
Feeling contraction in chest
Feeling tight in shoulders
Feeling pillow
Breathing
Seeing computer screen
Feeling sensation in stomach
Feeling hungry
Breathing
Feeling tight in wrist

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second list is truth.

2. What is here without labels?

Experience? This? Now? Nothing. Everything. Truth.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They just describe it.
They just describe it?
They just describe it!

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

Yes, with the second list--a disconnection, but also ability to notice? A floating sensation. It’s all just happening. I’m not sure how to describe it?

Everything just is.

With much gratitude and love,
Em

[Anastacia42]

Hi Em,

This is all good.

floating sensation. It’s all just happening.

Excellent. Maybe a feeling of the truth of it? An expansive feeling? Try this:

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,