I don’t know

[Freshbundle]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is awareness itself. All things seem to appear but are made of nothing when looked at closely/experienced. There is only the experienced. No experiencer really.

What are you looking for at LU?
To see through the delusion, attachment to this me sense that is something. I’ve been investigating this through inquiry- allowing thoughts and images and allowing / recognizing resistance to feeling and also allowing feeling that had not been fully fully experienced. These practices seem to help soften. I would like someone to help me to look in a way I have not . Subtler and subtler ?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Please point me where I need to look in order to see clearly what is really going on.
I have looked at thought and images and experience sensation and emotion only to have those fall away. I still identify somewhere but I don’t know how to look perhaps for this next facet. Doubt? Beliefs still in place ?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Too much seeking. Seeking keeps seeking. Inquiry tools - is that me, what do I get from believing this thought, where is the threat, where is the urge to do something. All questions that require looking, and an allowing what is, and what is turns out to be sensation and then emptiness.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[atmajnani]

Hi Freshbundle,

Welcome to LU!
My nickname is Atmajnani and I can be your guide, if you would like.

I just request that you try to post every day. If once in a while you must be absent for more than a couple of days, please let me know in advance. I'm planning to do a 10-day silent retreat in the second half of June, but apart from that I'm available to reply everyday.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is here and now. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

To begin with, take some time to see whether you have any reservations about seeing that there isn't a 'me' separate from everything else.

Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Is there something you don't want to happen?

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?

How will it feel? What will change and what will stay the same?

Warmly,
Atmajnani

P.S.: I use the blue color to highlight the questions and when you reply please use the above quote button, then paste the question, and write your answer after the quote.

[Freshbundle]

Dear armajnani, there apparently was a snag in my registration. I am just receiving this now - having written to see again if someone could guide me. Answers below. Thank you. :



Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Relief

there something you don't want to happen?

I don’t know

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?

Lighter

Hi Freshbundle,

Welcome to LU!
My nickname is Atmajnani and I can be your guide, if you would like.

I just request that you try to post every day. If once in a while you must be absent for more than a couple of days, please let me know in advance. I'm planning to do a 10-day silent retreat in the second half of June, but apart from that I'm available to reply everyday.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is here and now. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

To begin with, take some time to see whether you have any reservations about seeing that there isn't a 'me' separate from everything else.

Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Is there something you don't want to happen?

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?

How will it feel? What will change and what will stay the same?

Warmly,
Atmajnani

P.S.: I use the blue color to highlight the questions and when you reply please use the above quote button, then paste the question, and write your answer after the quote.

[Freshbundle]

Also, I am not clear how to use this thread and how to correspond. Hopefully this becomes clear. The blue color did not paste blue but I’m pasted it.


quote=Freshbundle post_id=374253 time=1694212556 user_id=15487]
Dear armajnani, there apparently was a snag in my registration. I am just receiving this now - having written to see again if someone could guide me. Answers below. Thank you. :



Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Relief

there something you don't want to happen?

I don’t know

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?

Lighter

Hi Freshbundle,

Welcome to LU!
My nickname is Atmajnani and I can be your guide, if you would like.

I just request that you try to post every day. If once in a while you must be absent for more than a couple of days, please let me know in advance. I'm planning to do a 10-day silent retreat in the second half of June, but apart from that I'm available to reply everyday.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is here and now. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

To begin with, take some time to see whether you have any reservations about seeing that there isn't a 'me' separate from everything else.

Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Is there something you don't want to happen?

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?

How will it feel? What will change and what will stay the same?

Warmly,
Atmajnani

P.S.: I use the blue color to highlight the questions and when you reply please use the above quote button, then paste the question, and write your answer after the quote.

[/quote]

[atmajnani]

Hi Freshbundle,

Nice to know you are interested in guidance!
Sorry about the glitch in the system, sometimes it happens.
If a longer silence follows your reply, login in the forum to check for missed messages.

You just need to quote the question, not all text, before replying.
Use the Preview button in the bottom of the text box to visualize your answer before sending it to me.
With practice it will get easier.

Reading your initial answers, it seems you already have experience with self-inquiry.
Is there a particular belief(s) or illusion you would like to work on or can we follow the 'regular' questions at LU step-by-step?

Much love,
Atmajnani

[Freshbundle]

Hi Freshbundle,

Nice to know you are interested in guidance!
Sorry about the glitch in the system, sometimes it happens.
If a longer silence follows your reply, login in the forum to check for missed messages.

You just need to quote the question, not all text, before replying.
Use the Preview button in the bottom of the text box to visualize your answer before sending it to me.
With practice it will get easier.

Hi Freshbundle,

Nice to know you are interested in guidance!
Sorry about the glitch in the system, sometimes it happens.
If a longer silence follows your reply, login in the forum to check for missed messages.

You just need to quote the question, not all text, before replying.
Use the Preview button in the bottom of the text box to visualize your answer before sending it to me.
With practice it will get easier.

Reading your initial answers, it seems you already have experience with self-inquiry.
Is there a particular belief(s) or illusion you would like to work on or can we follow the 'regular' questions at LU step-by-step?

Much love,
Atmajnani

Reading your initial answers, it seems you already have experience with self-inquiry.
Is there a particular belief(s) or illusion you would like to work on or can we follow the 'regular' questions at LU step-by-step?

Much love,
Atmajnani

Thank you. I don’t know where to type my answer. Impress the quite and there is a subject box and topic review box. This is where I am typing.

Main beliefs I have looked at are all reactions to sensation and around identity: I am not any good , will never be, I feel guilty , ashamed, angry, sad, hurt, I should do something, I need to make a living, these are the main items that arise. Childhood imprints. Intense inquiry aimed at rooting out repressed feelings/ emotion and beliefs.
Recently in last two days I have a clearer view that I am
Awareness or nothing. These feelings and beliefs are not truth. I still react as if there is a me. So with reaction still happening, a me must still be in place…. Otherwise who would be threatened .

[Freshbundle]

Hi Freshbundle,

Nice to know you are interested in guidance!
Sorry about the glitch in the system, sometimes it happens.
If a longer silence follows your reply, login in the forum to check for missed messages.

You just need to quote the question, not all text, before replying.
Use the Preview button in the bottom of the text box to visualize your answer before sending it to me.
With practice it will get easier.

Hi Freshbundle,

Nice to know you are interested in guidance!
Sorry about the glitch in the system, sometimes it happens.
If a longer silence follows your reply, login in the forum to check for missed messages.

You just need to quote the question, not all text, before replying.
Use the Preview button in the bottom of the text box to visualize your answer before sending it to me.
With practice it will get easier.

Reading your initial answers, it seems you already have experience with self-inquiry.
Is there a particular belief(s) or illusion you would like to work on or can we follow the 'regular' questions at LU step-by-step?

Much love,
Atmajnani

Reading your initial answers, it seems you already have experience with self-inquiry.
Is there a particular belief(s) or illusion you would like to work on or can we follow the 'regular' questions at LU step-by-step?

Much love,
Atmajnani

Thank you. I don’t know where to type my answer. Do I type it here at the end of your thread? there is a subject box and topic review box. This is where I am typing:in topic review. I pressed the quotation mark and scroll to the end of your question and type my response. Please advise if this is wrong!
ANSWER:
Main beliefs I have looked at are all reactions to sensation and around identity: I am not any good , will never be, I feel guilty , ashamed, angry, sad, hurt, I should do something, I need to make a living, these are the main items that arise. Childhood imprints. Intense inquiry aimed at rooting out repressed feelings/ emotion and beliefs.
Recently in last two days I have a clearer view that I am
Awareness or nothing. These feelings and beliefs are not truth. I still react as if there is a me. So with reaction still happening, a me must still be in place…. Otherwise who would be threatened .

[atmajnani]

Hi Freshbundle,

Sorry for the delay n the reply. I'm working full-time and some evenings I feel very tired.

Instructions to reply:
1 - First press the button 'Reply' below the bottom left of my post.
2 - A white box appears where you can start writing (eg. Hi Atmajnani,...)
3 - If there are several questions to reply I suggest that you drag the mouse and copy the question I wrote (scroll down to find my last post below the white box of reply).
4 - In the reply-whitebox click the button 'Quote' on the top (4th button on the left), put the cursor in between the quote brackets and paste the question you copied before.
5 - Below the quote line start writing your answer.
6 - Repeat 3 to 5 for all the questions.

You can also write without quoting any text, if not needed.

In the end you can click the 'Preview' button below to see how your reply looks like and then click the 'Send' button.

About your previous reply:

reactions to sensation and around identity: I am not any good, will never be, I feel guilty, ashamed, angry, sad, hurt, I should do something, I need to make a living, ...

It's obvious that you are still very identified with your thoughts. Your reasoning of the last couple of days is also mental and not experiential. You really have to learn to distinguish thoughts from direct experience.
All the inquiry we will start here aims at making you conscious of what are thoughts in order for you to disidentify with them.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference between thoughts and actual experience:
If I ask you what colour are the socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a thought about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are;

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.
For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. KNOWING is about knowledge which is all in the MIND and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[Freshbundle]

Hi, Thank you for response. I did not see reply button. Now hopefully I get it correct.

I had been answering the question about what I may want to inquire on. I therefore shared that I notice that even though it seems there is no me… I can’t find a me when I look for one…. BUT I still react. Reaction tells me I still assume a me, otherwise there would be no reason to react. (Fetter 4/5).

It seems that I am clear direct experience from your example. DE is sensation, what is heard, seen, smelled, tasted, touch. Not an interpretation- which would be thought, label.

“It's obvious that you are still very identified with your thoughts. Your reasoning of the last couple of days is also mental and not experiential.”

I am not sure what you are referring to in the quote above .


Warmly,
Kristyn

[atmajnani]

Hi Freshbundle,

I can’t find a me when I look for one…. BUT I still react. Reaction tells me I still assume a me, otherwise there would be no reason to react.

Maybe you assumed that all the self-referential thoughts would disappear all together in one go, when in fact the 'ME' structure has many layers and nuances that need to be inquired and seen at different moments in time. 'Awakening' is an organic process of peeling many many layers of illusion and not a one-step shift.

First, do you remember experiencing a shift in perspective where you clearly and positively saw there is no 'ME', that your mental or conceptual identity was an illusion and not real?
If you have can you describe how you felt and what changed after that shift?

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[Freshbundle]

First, do you remember experiencing a shift in perspective where you clearly and positively saw there is no 'ME', that your mental or conceptual identity was an illusion and not real?
If you have can you describe how you felt and what changed after that shift?


it felt- light, spacious. Like the tree I was looking at and me are one and without location, not having to do with a body. A wonderful relief to not feel that I am a body. Nothing permanently changed.
After this though I still had a general anxiety that maybe got worse (or at least I knew I needed help to see what it really is) I then did kiloby inquiry for 1 year- inquiring into so many beliefs, feelings. It seems to have peeled back layers of hidden beliefs, feelings.

It seems to be a process. I have more and more clarity.

[atmajnani]

Hi Freshbundle,

The emotional turmoil or reactivity that you have experienced after the initial glimpse of the truth is part of the awakening process. I suggest that you observe in detail the physical sensations that arise - where in the body do you feel pain or a contraction, how long it lasts, etc. - and experience it fully without attaching any mental label or narrative. As everything else, those unpleasant sensations are impermanent, why react if you can just wait until it passes?

In our inquiry we will go through several exercises for you to observe the nature of thoughts, which will help you desidentify with thoughts and see the illusion with clarity.

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the 'self' put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the 'self' side. Any thought that refers back to a 'self' should go on the 'self' side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety), that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[atmajnani]

Hi Freshbundle,

The emotional turmoil or reactivity that you have experienced after the initial glimpse of the truth is part of the awakening process. I suggest that you observe in detail the physical sensations that arise - where in the body do you feel pain or a contraction, how long it lasts, etc. - and experience it fully without attaching any mental label or narrative. As everything else, those unpleasant sensations are impermanent, why react if you can just wait until it passes?

In our inquiry we will go through several exercises for you to observe the nature of thoughts, which will help you desidentify with thoughts and see the illusion with clarity.

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the 'self' put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the 'self' side. Any thought that refers back to a 'self' should go on the 'self' side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety), that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[Freshbundle]

Thank you. I am sorry I missed this response.
I have been grieving my beloved lost cat ( self) .
All is self. All thought.

Warmly,
Kristyn

[Freshbundle]

What I meant to say is all thoughts are referring to this ‘self’.