I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

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TPT
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I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sun May 20, 2012 5:20 pm

hi i would like to begin this process and i would like to work with Ilona.

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Ilona
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Mon May 21, 2012 7:26 am

Hi TPT

Thank you for invite. Yes, I can help you through.
Please share a bit of your story and how you got here to start and we will take it from there.
What is it you are looking for?
What do you expect?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Mon May 21, 2012 10:19 am

Hi Ilona, well lets see. i have been seeking for a long time mostly through books. i have been to a couple of retreats but mostly my search has been mostly through book, mp3s etc.. I have never been much for the guru type thing. i dont believe in much anymore. i have never gone about finding the truth through meditating ( although i like it), i dont say mantras or bow to anyone, burn incense or think much about past lives. im not into the new age thing. ive just always had this force pulling me to find the truth. it started with big questions when i was little like why are we here? do aliens exist? whats really going on here? i was doing self inquiry naturally when i was younger and didnt know it. i dare that if i had stuck with that i would have found the Truth a long time ago. those questions led me to start seeking which created a long process. ive read many things but the last few years has led me to adyashanti, anthony de mello and in the last year or so jed mckenna. these 3 really created a focus to turning the search back inward instead of outward. Im looking for the Truth, thats it. im not looking for any states of being, maybe freedom would be one. I dont think seeing through this me will be the end but a important piece. thanks for working with me

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Mon May 21, 2012 11:54 am

Great, thank you for intro. I was pretty much the same and the last bit that pushed me was jed's books. That started a period of decinstructing beliefs, until I came across the core one. There is no self at all. None, as in zero, is it true?
Until this question is faced head on, the search continues.

So you want the truth, great. And I help you see by asking questions, which you have to find answers to by yourself, with full honesty, not from second hand knowledge but from direct experience.

Let's start.

There is no self at all, no me as a separate entity, no controller, no manager, no watcher, no decider in reality.
Play with this thought, write what comes up, feelings, thoughts, notice what goes on in the system and just describe it here.


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Mon May 21, 2012 11:44 pm

There is no self at all, no me as a separate entity, no controller, no manager, no watcher, no decider in reality.
Play with this thought, write what comes up, feelings, thoughts, notice what goes on in the system and just describe it here.
Intellectually I know this is true, it is the shift that is needed from intellect to knowing. Until then it is a dead thing. Like quoting someone elses poem. Yes it may be beautiful but it is still dead. It’s a tricky thing , this me. Trying to get rid of it simply gives me more strength. Just to see through it I think would be enough. I have had problems with the no decider in reality part as far as fighting against reality and having my ass handed to me repeatedly. When I read your statement I feel like im on a precipice . I can feel the other side of it so close yet I haven’t been able to get there. Maybe the intellect is holding me back. I know with these questions I need to stay to the center of the bullseye or il drift off track. Illusion makes it so easy to. When I read your statement I feel confusion, of course, lol I recognize that when I type I never really know when im goin to type the next thing. I was in the shower this morning and noticed all the thoughts I was having and seeing how random they were and all over the place and actually pointless previously recorded material. You said no watcher. Im confused by that. When I look out of my eyes I feel like there is something there. Awareness. I know intellectually that there is no watcher only watching but grasping that totally is hard. How do people become what they become in life without any controlling . what seperates the homeless from the movie stars? Is there no choice? Is everything preplanned? That may sound surface level I guess but it feels like it ties into your statements. That’s part of where my confusion lies. Sometimes im closer than other times. Like I said, sometimes I feel like im right about to fall right over the waterfall but it doesn’t quite happen. Please be patient with me and thank you.

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Tue May 22, 2012 8:16 am

Great answer, thank you for taking time to look and answer fully.

I'd like you today spent a little time in nature of if it's not possible, just open a window and look outside.
Is there a manager to all this life that is going on? Is there a controller that makes trees grow or grass green? Is there a need for effort for birds to fly? This flower is blue, is it wrong? Should it be red?
And these people are what they are same way as this fly or dog. Just playing out the role. Everything is unique and yet everything moves, wiggles, including your body and thoughts in one movement.

Is it possible that human is a manager of his own life? Is it possible that a human is outside nature and separate from what is?

Just write what comes up after this exercise.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Tue May 22, 2012 10:33 pm

i noticed that while i was outside today i disturbed some birds by getting to close and the flapped away. did they think oh hes getting to close ? no their wings just flapped and they were gone. their wings flapping feels the same as my hands typing. i can say ok hands start typing..... now and they will but that is just a silly game. the illusion of control because while i do that my foot is tapping the floor and then i am made aware of that. is that like saying ok "you" start succeeding ........ now? lol or you start working out or eating better .........now? there is a measure of control that i can exert over these things in a way through will but i notice while im exercising that im not constantly thinking ok now this , now this, now this. i just look down and notice that im doing a pushup. its weird. a fine line from it happening all by itself and me thinking im in charge of it. the gray area where i and im sure many others start getting fuzzy about whats true and what isnt. i think one of the things that have held me back is not sure what i want to do with life. i didnt want college was actually led by something not to go, like being literally pushed in another direction yet now im just floating along through life not doing much except surviving. its strange to feel this pull by some unseen force so strongly yet i have no idea what direction its going. so i think this me is getting in the way of it doing its thing. off topic maybe a little or hell maybe right in the bullseye. not sure. people seem to make things happen in their life while others seem like they cant no matter what. from little things to the biggest things. if there is no I then how are these choices made and what determines what happens to certain people and not others?

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Tue May 22, 2012 10:48 pm

il say a little more about your direct exercise since i veered off a little. while outside after a while( i try this often actually) i try to drop labels and see things naturally. like i literally try to forget that a tree is a tree and just look at. of course i can never completely forget that ive labeled that a tree my whole life but i can sorta open enough that things will start to blend into one process sometimes. its feels like pulling with all my might to open a broken elevator door and just barely getting a peek before it slams shut. haha maybe not the greatest analogy because theres not effort exerted really just a noticing which relaxes into a awareness. my mind will go ooooo theres something and then bam its snapped back to my normal viewing. but as you say i cant control thoughts or feelings so i cant stop my mind from commenting on this awareness which disrupts the whole thing. ahhhhh crazy time. like the film american beauty when the guy watches the bag floating and feels connected. hes just watching this "happening" and feels apart of it. i think probably if anyone sat outside for a length of time and didnt try to expect anything to come out of it or hope for anything that sooner or later they would just blend into what was happening and forget about their head ( mentally and physically) then theres just seeing and being. its a state ive noticed before happening but theres always a return to seperation. as long as the pause between my thoughts it stays but not one second longer than that. thanks for reading

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Tue May 22, 2012 11:08 pm

Great work! Thank you for full answers. Now let's carry on.

Ok, let's look closer at what is here between thoughts. What is real, as in what does not disappear if you don't think about it.

Look at table for example- it can be seen, it can be touched, it can be tasted ( haha)
Apple- can be smelled, can be touched, can be tasted, can be seen.

There are streams of data incoming through 5 sense channels + thoughts
Now if you look at something for a bit, thoughts come up and labelling starts. Notice that.

Can me be sensed?
Can I be sensed?

What's going on here?

Write what you notice.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Wed May 23, 2012 9:38 pm

when i look at what is real between thoughts what i notice is simply awareness. if i get caught up in looking at something beautiful or listening to something beautiful and theres no thoughts or at least not awareness of thoughts then theres just awareness and the self is forgotten about or i guess better to say the self isnt there. as soon as i go oh wow thats beautiful then self has returned. there are times when ive been doing something in the present and theres no thoughts and i just notice things then a thought comes in and i snap back into commentary. like theres no such thing as time if your not thinking about it. whats weird is that when i was in that state it felt like a trance also just like the trance when you snap out of your thoughts. i guess those are just states of being and not being itself? what i notice is that when i look at something thoughts and labeling comes up right away, almost immediately . if i stay with something then i notice the labeling dies down. can me be sensed? well definitely not in the normal way with the 5 senses. me feels like a thought or a feeling. its sensed that way. what makes it so hard to see there is no me is that everyone around you that you come into contact with talks to you, reacts to you like there is a me there. at least it appears that way to me. lol

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Wed May 23, 2012 10:00 pm

Yes, we have been trained to refer to ourselves as me when talking to others.
So me is a product of language, a convenient way to replace the name with a simple sound mi and I.

You say me feels like a thought.
Spot on. It is a thought. No more than that. And thoughts are charged with feelings.
Think of something bad that you did when you were a kid- thought triggers feeling. And feelings trigger labelling process. Watch how it works.

If I tell you- you are useless and never gonna get this-- can you see that feelings get triggered?
So I and me are thoughts that are charged with feeling.
But question here is, is me real?
Is there something real behind this label me?

Look at a thought unicorn. It's a fantastic image of a beautiful white horse with a horn. You can visualise it and see an image, even see how you touch it in imagination, you can also tell a story about unicorn. But does that make it real?
So this me, is just the same- an image, created in the mind, with no reality behind it.

Is it true?
If you say no, find it!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Thu May 24, 2012 8:30 pm

i have been thinking about your last post all day today while i was working. i had a shift. not the shift here that were going for. not yet at least but a different type. like a piece of ego broke off and dissolved and wont be coming back. what you wrote i already "knew" but it just seemed to settle this time if that makes sense. i definitely want to keep going further and deeper. box me in the corner and kill "me' and i will thank you for it

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Thu May 24, 2012 9:46 pm

Great work! And tell me more about the shift, please. A piece of ego fell off? Nice. How does it feel?

So do you exist?
Is there a separate self that is in charge of life?

Write what you see.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Thu May 24, 2012 10:35 pm

i guess thats what you would say. thats the best way i can describe it. or a piece of the mask came off? maybe something like that. it was very nonchalant, no big thing but yet it was. like a piece of the onion layer came off but theres still plenty of layers left to deal with but it was still a noticeable layer.
Look at a thought unicorn. It's a fantastic image of a beautiful white horse with a horn. You can visualise it and see an image, even see how you touch it in imagination, you can also tell a story about unicorn. But does that make it real?
So this me, is just the same- an image, created in the mind, with no reality behind it.
something about this analogy with the unicorn compared to the me just made sense even though ive heard many analogies like this. just being aware of this analogy and wondering about it ( not thinking about it) made a piece of me go away. its like i partially have seen what your trying to get seen but not all the way.
f I tell you- you are useless and never gonna get this-- can you see that feelings get triggered?
this also clicked with me because i have told myself this many times and can trace back to memory the thoughts and feelings that landslided from this initial thought. i dont know i was just more peaceful today than i have been in a while but i know there is so much further to go

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Thu May 24, 2012 10:38 pm

So do you exist?
Is there a separate self that is in charge of life?
i dont want to answer this yet bc i have to go to a class soon and dont wanna just answer this with my mind just to get something down before i go. i want to ponder this awhile then i will write again tonight or tomorrow . Thank you Ilona for your help


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