How do I return home

[N704GC]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there are only pointers to this experience. I am not who I think I am, i am not my thoughts even though I can not find myself. I am in my own way. I don't know. Who i think i am isn't real.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am seeking guidance with self inquiry, i feel as though i am getting myself stuck. I am seeking a community of others who feel the same way as i do, that something in life is 'off' and that i am not who I think i am and that i don't have to suffer needlessly in this lifetime. I am seeking support during the isolation i feel, since i don't feel like i know anyone who feels the same way i do.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I am hoping to learn how to inquire correctly. I expect maturity, grounded conversation, peacefulness, humility, honesty and presence. Also encouragement that coming home to who we really are is possible.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I found meditation years ago (Vipassana) and sat on and off but never felt like i was getting anywhere. Not that i needed to get anywhere but i just didn't feel right. Felt like i was just learning to focus my attention instead of learning what the attention was. As long as I can remember i've felt that i was buffering unnecessary, that i didn't exist just to feel this pain and find ways to distract myself. I've also been curious to who it was that exists, who i am, what it is that exists that makes "me". A year ago i was asking myself "who is asking the questions?", (Something of that nature) when suddenly who i was dissolved and i was just aware of my own awareness. (It's hard to describe) but for maybe half an hour i felt like i finally remembered who i was and it was everything i had been looking for my whole life. I was at peace and happy to be alive. Then a fear of going crazy crept in and this experience became a memory. But it's the most real thing I've ever experienced.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

when suddenly who i was dissolved and i was just aware of my own awareness. (It's hard to describe) but for maybe half an hour i felt like i finally remembered who i was and it was everything i had been looking for my whole life. I was at peace and happy to be alive.

Yes, that sounds like seeing no self. It will come and go, possibly for years.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

~ Stacy

[N704GC]

Hi Stacy!

I'm excited to speak with you! My name is Diego and I reside in PDT (UTC-7). I will try my best to post every day and let you know if I am unable. I really appreciate the time you are taking.

How will life change?

I'm not sure, hopefully life will be lived with peace and without boundaries. I don't feel like life itself would change at all, just my relationship with it, like actually seeing it all for the first time.

How will you change?

I'd have a truer sense of who I am, because at this moment I don't really feel like I am the persona I use daily. Hopefully that mask will drop away, hopefully I wont feel like I need it. I'll stop living on autopilot and be able to witness/engage in life spontaneously. I don't know, but maybe I'd have a better sense of what it really means to be alive. Maybe I'll be able to have deeper connections with others and myself.

What will be different?

I don't know. I don't feel like I can answer this question.

What is missing?

I feel very limited in this current experience. I feel held back by habits of fear and anxiety when I huge part of me just wants to explore the world just as it is with connection, intimacy and trust in all things. Intuitively I don't sense that anything is missing, there's just so much of 'me' in the way if that makes sense. I don't feel like I am really living, there has to be more to this.

I tried to be as honest as possible, its hard to answer these questions in words.
I look forward to hearing back from you,

All the best,
Diego

[Anastacia42]

Hi Diego,

You're welcome!

First, on how to "return home," recognize that you never left. The only thing "in the way" is believing your thoughts.

Your expectations are relatively reasonable. Know that once you SEE no self, you will bounce in & out, probably for years. This is normal.

Now, what comes up when is read there is no self, never has been, never will be? That "self" is completely made up, fictional?

Loving,

[N704GC]

Hi Stacy,

Know that once you SEE no self, you will bounce in & out, probably for years.

will this eventually stabilize?

Now, what comes up when is read there is no self, never has been, never will be? That "self" is completely made up, fictional?

Intuitively it feels true, there is hesitation and fear of this unknown because I have grown so accustomed to being 'me'. This 'me' and my thoughts have been a safety net. There is resistance to accepting another belief. Confusion because there is no conceptual understanding of 'no self', and without concept, my mind has no control. There is also a sense of relief that who I think I am isn't me (physical tightness in the chest, as if trying to hold back a laugh, or looking over the edge of a high precipice), followed by a deep sense of fatigue, as well as a desire to 'acquire' no-self. i.e. "how do I do this?", "how do I stop believing my thoughts?" etc.

-Diego

[Anastacia42]

Hi Diego,

We'll help you see that "fear" is only a label for Sensation.

will this eventually stabilize?

Kind of. You will not live on some Bliss Bunny high, but as you become more certain & question any untrue thinking (lies) that you've been believing, things will settle down. There's a book called, "What's Awakening Really Like?" edited by Marriane Broug, that you can find on Amazon that will give you 20 awake people's perspectives on that & other questions.

Though right now, reading "Gateless Gatecrashers," available for free in our Resources section here and "Liberation Unleashed," available on Amazon, will be more about where you are now.

without concept, my mind has no control.

Very good to notice! Besides, there is no Diego to have any such control!

physical tightness in the chest,

Excellent to be aware of this, too! This is how it feels when you lie. One of our early pointers will help with this.

The pointers you will practice here will give you experiential answers to all of these questions & a few more.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[N704GC]

Hi Stacy,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

This is clear to me

Thank you for the book references

-Diego

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome!

Okay...

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

~ Stacy

[N704GC]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Looking out the window and watching the wind blow through the trees, seeing the words appear on screen that are being typed, seeing the reflection of my face in the coffee= image/color
Smell of hand soap on my hands, smell of coffee that was just made, smell of empty can of sardines in the trash nearby, simply = smell

feeling of pads of fingers on the keyboard, tension in the shoulders and middle back, hollow 'disappointed' feeling in response to learning that a job I was looking into isn't hiring at this moment, feeling of feet against cold floor, agitation/desire of move, simply = sensation

residual toothpaste taste in mouth, bitterness of the coffee, simply = taste

The sound of the glass clinking as the recycle is taken out, sound of cars passing by and birds chirping outside, the sounds of the keyboard as I type, sound of breath moving in and out of the nostrils, simply = sound

Thought about how coffee is kind of burnt, thinking about what thought to write down, thoughts about prospective future living situations, doubtful thoughts, thought about not passing a color vision test, "what should I do today?" "don't breath with your mouth open" , simply = thought

I've been trying to do this throughout the day, its deceptively hard to stay focused on the present moment. I notice how quickly the mind starts ruminating. I will post more as I can. I read ahead on some of the other threads and have been changing how I label the experience i.e. "I am feeling pain in my leg" --> "The is a sensation of pain in the leg" which helps reduce a little of the stickiness of 'me'.

-Diego

[Anastacia42]

Hi Diego

Great.

Here's the next one. It sounds like maybe you've already started.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,
Stacy

[N704GC]

Hi Stacy

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

I am typing
I am chewing a bagel
I feel tired
I have a headache
I feel tension in the neck and shoulders
I feel my breathing
I feel the peanut butter and jelly in my mouth as I eat
I am listening to cars pass by
I am listening to the hum of the refrigerator
I feel too hot
I feel tightness in my chest
I feel myself holding my breath
I feel the need to use the bathroom
I feel strain in my knees and muscle soreness
I feel a heaviness in my eyes
I feel a strange stress response like I want to distract myself
This feels very uncomfortable, honestly

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

eating soup
dislike of soup
tasting bitterness
tension in shoulders
strain behind eyes
typing of words on screen
heat on skin
slight feeling of sweat on torso
constricted breathing through nose
watching the leaves flutter in the wind
listening to the sounds of other roommates in their rooms
feeling of the hardwood then carpet floor under the feet
ringing in the right ear
sounds of children playing outside
listening to the rumble of a motorcycle go by in the distance
thoughts about an attractive coworker
thoughts about 'I'
feeling the breath speed up
watching the wind blow things around outside
hearing the sounds of the keyboard
looking at the pleasant color of a lamp in the room
taste of unpleasant soup left in mouth
noticing breath moving in and out the mouth then switching to in and out the nostrils
tension between eyebrows
image thoughts from scene in tv show
There is a feeling of confusion and wanting to grasp at what is 'real'

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Assigning an "I" to the experience felt habitual with a lot of momentum behind it but it did not feel 'right'. Intuitively, labeling the experience without a 'me' felt more genuine. The 'I' label placed this feeling of separation and judgement of the experience, good/bad, passed through a filter of what 'I' want to be. Without 'I' it all just was what it was.

2. What is here without labels?

Just pure experience... no resistance to what is, even if just briefly

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

The label of 'me' makes experience feel foggy in a way. Labeling the experience without a 'me' doesn't seem to affect the experience

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

With the 'I' label there was this very noticeable discomfort and tension in my body, a feeling of agitation and it was honestly difficult to complete the ten minutes without wanting to find a distraction or stop the exercise. The second exercise felt more present, more like experiencing life, it was as if the brightness of experience got turned up just a little bit

Stacy I've noticed that there seems to be an attachment to expectation. That there's something to 'get' and understand. There is also fear that comes up when I try to stay in this non-I-labeling zone. "who will I be when I'm not me"

Thank you for your guidance, this is something I've been searching for for a long time

-Diego

[Anastacia42]

You're doing great, Diego. You are quite welcome.

With the 'I' label there was this very noticeable discomfort and tension in my body, a feeling of agitation and it was honestly difficult to complete the ten minutes without wanting to find a distraction or stop the exercise. The second exercise felt more present, more like experiencing life, it was as if the brightness of experience got turned up just a little bit

Yes!

I've noticed that there seems to be an attachment to expectation. That there's something to 'get' and understand. There is also fear that comes up when I try to stay in this non-I-labeling zone. "who will I be when I'm not me"

Yes, let's look at that.

Are these fears & expectations Direct Experience? Or are they a made- up story your thoughts are telling?


Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.
[/b]
First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely. What is found?


If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

The Sun rises in the West is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I."

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not a name for the Sensation itself, for example. Do you see that?


Loving,

~ Stacy

[N704GC]

Are these fears & expectations Direct Experience? Or are they a made- up story your thoughts are telling?

The fear feels very real as well as confusion, but only because I'm trying to let go of a narrative that has kept me safe. The response is felt directly, yet the story is made up. The story is that if I let go of 'me', I will die. Or it very much feels that way. There is a made up story that "waking up" should feel a certain way and there is an expectation to feel that way, this I can tell you is also a story based off the experience of no-self a year ago.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

I can remember lying to my mom every time we interact. Not by the things I say, but I feign comfort hoping that it would mend our relationship. I lie about who I am presenting. Which now I realize isnt dissimilar to how I lie every day about who I am around different people. This persona/lie connection is becoming more clear.

What is found?

slight nausea, tightness in the stomach right below the ribs, tension in the neck below the jaw, like the body wants to contract and curl up into a ball. this is all so subtle.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

This was very funny, thank you!

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not a name for the Sensation itself, for example. Do you see that?

yes, interpretation is story tied to an experience?

-diego

[Anastacia42]

Hi again,

trying to let go of a narrative that has kept me safe.

You mean trying to let go of a narrative that you only *think* has kept you something labeled "safe."

slight nausea, tightness in the stomach right below the ribs, tension in the neck below the jaw, like the body wants to contract and curl up into a ball

Exactly! This is what lying feels like.

Is this in the same "family" of feelings as your so- called "fears" and "expectations" bring up?

This was very funny, thank you!

You're welcome! Humor & relaxation are far truer than the tightness of lies.

interpretation is story tied to an experience?

That we have learned to *think* is tied to some DE.

Try this:

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.

Loving,

~ Stacy

[N704GC]

Is this in the same "family" of feelings as your so- called "fears" and "expectations" bring up?

Yes, they seem to be related to control in some way, expectations are wanting to control the future and fear as the inability to control the future. I may be over-intellectualizing this.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

There is the reading/thought/label 'green' and the visual seeing of the letters being red

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

The color is experienced and the thought label is experienced but there is no experience of actual green

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

No, only the color red has correspondence with reality. The label is also very real, but I see how you are pointing to how labels can confuse/obscure experience!

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

It is simply a label that overlays the experience of red. I understand how the label of 'I' can overlay the experience of life, and I and trying to inquire into this.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

the redness remains red

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

redness still remains red, but the experience of red is affected if the label of good or bad is believed. If I couldn't read, the red would just be red.

Let me know what is SEEN.

the experience remains the same, but the filter/perception gets changed through whatever label is attached to the experience

I seem to understand this intellectually, I am looking for every time I label things through the 'me' filter.

Thank you

Diego