Maya

[Priya10]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no real inherent self- it’s a bitter pill to swallow. I have been searching the ‘self’ for the last 7-8years.It’s like running on the treadmill. Now I know there is nowhere to go or to control anything . The body has the intelligent to look after it self. I am here to enjoy or act in the show but not to get involved in the show.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for clarity, I want to stop running, U want to stop searching, I want to stop looking. I want to have an amazing human life where everything is beautiful. I would like my quest to be over.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like a guided conversation to pull me out of illusion. I have not been successful at self-inquiries . I either get distracted I don’t go all the way or I am not sure if I am doing the right thing.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started my spiritual journey about 8 years ago. I felt something missing in my life. Everything was ticking along but my soul was in aching . I was not experiencing peace or happiness.l came across opera’s T.V program ‘super soul Sunday’. I used to be glued to t.v for three hours. I loved it.
Later I enrolled into meditation classes. I used to get up 4 o’clock everyday to meditate.
Next I came across the word ‘non-duality’ I read many books and watched endless YouTube videos on that.
Now I still read books, watch videos but I have no where to go. I try to stay present watch my thoughts, emotions and sensation. I try to do self-inquiry some time somehow I don’t go very far...

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[warissem]

Hi Priya

i am glad to walk some steps with you to make you see that there is no separate self.

There are some rules you engage with, during this dialog :

Be honest in your answers to my questions : the answers must be given after having looked at direct experience (hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching)
learn how to use the quote function and answer separately to each question
read the disclaimer text
Let aside for a while all the books, videos, audios, ... about spirituality, advaita, etc ... and come with an open mind, with unknowing mind

If you agree, let me know and begin the exploration.

Warissem

[Priya10]

Dear warissem,

So so pleased to receive this invitation from you. I am ready to put away all the books and videos. I am ready to Look! Thank you for choosing me.
Love
Priya

[warissem]

Hi Priya

You are welcome.
Would you speak about you, what is "you", "I", in your own words?

What do you expect to change after having seen through the illusion of a separate self ?

Warissem

[Priya10]

Dear Warissem,
I am the one who is aware of the sensations, thoughts,beliefs, patterns and habits of my body.
I have a label that is my name.over the years I have stuck many labels on myself but I am constantly changing.
The mind keeps me constantly busy with having imaginary dialogue with others-generally with people who I believe should work on themselves.
The mind also keep on bringing the old sufferings and hurts again and again, inner criticism about how incompetent I am and keep giving me choices of how to keep busy.e.g.
Watch tv, read book, cook a meal, watch new you tube video, go for a walk or sit still for a few minutes.


After having seen through the illusion of a separate self I expect my perception to change. I want to experience inner peace, I want to experience clarity not confusions or doubts. But most importantly to end the quest of searching and knowing my true self- my true nature.
The answer to the big question of WHO AM “l”

Thank you so much for giving me chance
Love
Priya

[warissem]

Hi Priya

I am the one who is aware of the sensations, thoughts,beliefs, patterns and habits of my body.

Great. What you are seeking is this "I am aware" you see, it is so simple, this presence knowing. Continue to be knowingly this "I am aware".

I have a label that is my name.over the years I have stuck many labels on myself but I am constantly changing.

Now, the "I" is used differently than the first sentence above, can you say where this "I" is pointing to ?

The mind keeps me constantly busy with having imaginary dialogue with others-generally with people who I believe should work on themselves.

What is knowing these imaginary dialogs?

The mind also keep on bringing the old sufferings and hurts again and again, inner criticism about how incompetent I am and keep giving me choices of how to keep busy.e.g.

Look at the mind and describe it for me.

After having seen through the illusion of a separate self I expect my perception to change. I want to experience inner peace, I want to experience clarity not confusions or doubts. But most importantly to end the quest of searching and knowing my true self- my true nature.
The answer to the big question of WHO AM “l”

Good.

Thank you so much for giving me chance

You are welcome. It is a question of looking at what is in direct experience.

Warissem

[Priya10]

Dear warissem,
thank you for pointing where I am looking.

Still trying to sort out quote function. Please bear with me.

“ Great. What you are seeking is this "I am aware" you see, it is so simple, this presence knowing. Continue to be knowingly this "I am aware".

I will continue with the awareness of “I am aware”


“Now, the "I" is used differently than the first sentence above, can you say where this "I" is pointing to ?”

Yes, I can see that this “I “ is pointing to the separate self. The self that keeps me busy. The self that is never happy.


“What is knowing these imaginary dialogs?”

I know these imaginary dialogs. I am aware of these imagery dialogs. I am aware of this knowing.



“Look at the mind and describe it for me.”

[Now that is difficult one to describe. When I look at my mind I don’t find it. I don’t know where to look for it. I can’t find it yet it has full controls me all the time. It wakes up before me and goes to bed after me. It is never happy. It keeps me very busy.
I hope it makes sense
Love
Mamta

[Priya10]

Dear warissem,
thank you for pointing where I am looking.

Still trying to sort out quote function. Please bear with me.

“Great. What you are seeking is this "I am aware" you see, it is so simple, this presence knowing. Continue to be knowingly this "I am aware.”

I will continue with the awareness of “I am aware”

“Now, the "I" is used differently than the first sentence above, can you say where this "I" is pointing to ?”

Yes, I can see that this “I “ is pointing to the separate self. The self that keeps me busy. The self that is never happy.

“What is knowing these imaginary dialogs?”

I know these imaginary dialogs. I am aware of these imagery dialogs. I am aware of this knowing.

“Look at the mind and describe it for me.”

[Now that is difficult one to describe. When I look at my mind I don’t find it. I don’t know where to look for it. I can’t find it yet it has full controls me all the time. It wakes up before me and goes to bed after me. It is never happy. It keeps me very busy.
I hope it makes sense
Love
Mamta
[/quote]

[warissem]

Hi Mamta

I will continue with the awareness of “I am aware”

Good.

Yes, I can see that this “I “ is pointing to the separate self. The self that keeps me busy. The self that is never happy.

You see that "I" is mis used here, you said that it points to a separate self. When I say : there is no separate self in any shape or form, what are the feelings, the sensations in the body ?

I know these imaginary dialogs. I am aware of these imagery dialogs. I am aware of this knowing.

Yes.

Now that is difficult one to describe. When I look at my mind I don’t find it. I don’t know where to look for it. I can’t find it yet it has full controls me all the time. It wakes up before me and goes to bed after me. It is never happy. It keeps me very busy.
I hope it makes sense

Sure it is difficult to find something which does not exist. You said that you don't find it but it has full control on you : can you look at that which is in control ? is it a thought, a color, a sound, a sensation, a taste, a perfume ?


Warissem

[Priya10]

Dear Warissem
Thank you for being so patient with me and putting up with my English.

You see that "I" is mis used here, you said that it points to a separate self. When I say : there is no separate self in any shape or form, what are the feelings, the sensations in the body ?

You are right. There is no separate self in any shape and form. Most of the time I am aware of the sensations in my stomach. I actually have to keep my hands on my stomach whenever I am sitting or lying down to calm these sensations down.There is something simmering there all the time.
Sometimes I l feel tightness in my chest- this happens due to unpleasant memories that has come up on the surface or when I am faced with a sudden conflict.

Sure it is difficult to find something which does not exist. You said that you don't find it but it has full control on you : can you look at that which is in control ? is it a thought, a color, a sound, a sensation, a taste, a perfume ?

The control definitely comes from thoughts. Same thoughts appear again and again. For example if I have to phone someone or I need to send email to someone or I need to talk to husband or children about something or watched or heard something that trigger the past experience then thoughts get feast. I am aware of these thoughts . To stop them I normally listen to some YouTube videos and the circle goes on.
Love
Mamta

[warissem]

Hi Mamta

You are right.

It is not a question of right or wrong here. I don’t want you to believe what I am saying but look for yourself in direct experience.

There is no separate self in any shape and form.

Have you seen this or is it just an intellectual understanding ?

Sometimes I l feel tightness in my chest- this happens due to unpleasant memories that has come up on the surface or when I am faced with a sudden conflict.

Look at the feeling of tightness in your chest and look to the memories which come up, is there a link between them in direct experience ?

The control definitely comes from thoughts. Same thoughts appear again and again. For example if I have to phone someone or I need to send email to someone or I need to talk to husband or children about something or watched or heard something that trigger the past experience then thoughts get feast. I am aware of these thoughts . To stop them I normally listen to some YouTube videos and the circle goes on.

There is an exercise for you : sit down comfortably, prepare a sheet of paper on which you put two columns, column A and column B. Close your eyes and observe thoughts during 5 minutes. List all the thoughts turning about yourself, personal thoughts in the column A and all the other thoughts in the column B. Don’t send the lists of your thoughts to the forum but you give answers to these questions :

What is the great part of thoughts, column A or column B ?

Do thoughts need you to arise ?

Can you stop a thought in the middle ?

Can you choose your thoughts ?


Warissem

[Priya10]

Dear Warissem,

I try to answer as honestly as I can. I am very grateful to receive this support from you.

It is not a question of right or wrong here. I don’t want you to believe what I am saying but look for yourself in direct experience

In my direct experience there is a faint awareness which is calms and silent and nice.Everything feels good and it’s growing. But I am also aware of the awareness that is angry, unhappy and irritated .it’s takes a lot of energy to stay in that awareness. I used to spend all my time there but now I recognise that awareness and spend less time there. The minute I feel the tightness in my chest or a knot in my stomach I became aware of it. Some times I can come out quickly but other times it takes longer.

Have you seen this or is it just an intellectual understanding ?

It’s more of an intellectual understanding at the moment.

Look at the feeling of tightness in your chest and look to the memories which come up, is there a link between them in direct experience ?

Yes , there is a direct link between feelings of tightness and memories. It’s like living the same experience again again. Over the years the frequency of the memories coming up has gone less but not the experience. It still brings up the hurt and distracts me.

What is the great part of thoughts, column A or column B ?

Column B

Do thoughts need you to arise

?
I am bit hesitant to say yes. I don’t no way. I believe all actions comes from thoughts and the best and the worse ideas are born from thoughts.so yes thoughts do need to asise.

Can you stop a thought in the middle ?

Yes, 100% The minute you put light of awareness on to it -it disappears.

Can you choose your thoughts

?
Yes. I have changed my thoughts over the years.
Love
Mamta

[warissem]

Hi Mamta

What is awareness in your own words ? Can it be known through the five senses ?

Is awareness calm, silent, angry, unhappy, … or are you aware of calm, silence, anger, unhappiness, …?

Yes , there is a direct link between feelings of tightness and memories.

I recall for you that “direct experience” means hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting and touching. Look and tell me if there is a link between feelings (sensations) and memories (thoughts) ? If you see a link, just describe it for me.

I am bit hesitant to say yes. I don’t no way. I believe all actions comes from thoughts and the best and the worse ideas are born from thoughts.so yes thoughts do need to asise.

your answer does not come through direct experience. Before giving an answer, you need to look at thoughts, how do they arise : do they need you to push them ? is there a basket full of thoughts which are pushed up ? LOOK.

Yes, 100% The minute you put light of awareness on to it -it disappears.

There is a pink elephant. Can you cut the thought in the middle or are you imagining the whole elephant ?


Do you choose your thoughts ? You said :yes. Then how can you be angry or unhappy ? Just, you need to choose the good thoughts and throw away the bad ones.


Warissem

[Priya10]

Dear Warissem,
hope you are well. I have started paying more attention to my direct experience less to past experiences.

What is awareness in your own words ? Can it be known through the five senses ?

In my words awareness is what “Mamta” is experiencing in her day -to- day life. All experiences take place in “Mamta” .When “I” or Mamta is asleep then “Mamta”does know or aware that she is asleep when “Mamta”wakes up the story starts again from where “Mamta”fell asleep.
Senses collect information for Mamta. Then thoughts decide what to do with that information .But thoughts arise in awareness so it can’t be known through senses. Awareness is unlimited whereas senses are part of the body so they are limited.

Is awareness calm, silent, angry, unhappy, … or are you aware of calm, silence, anger, unhappiness, …?

Awareness is not calm, silent, angry or unhappy.... I am aware of calm, silence, anger, unhappiness.

recall for you that “direct experience” means hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting and touching. Look and tell me if there is a link between feelings (sensations) and memories (thoughts) ? If you see a link, just describe it for me.

Earlier today I went to the kitchen sink to wash my hand. As I was washing hands I saw flower vase in the window. Then the thought came about the person who gave me flowers and my feelings about that person came in the awareness. Feelings came from the memory. So in my direct experience I saw a link between feelings and memory.

your answer does not come through direct experience. Before giving an answer, you need to look at thoughts, how do they arise : do they need you to push them ? is there a basket full of thoughts which are pushed up ? LOOK.

In my direct experience thoughts just arise at any time about anything and anywhere. I was making dinner earlier and thoughts about my work place popped up. I am on holidays at the moment and not been to work for quite sometime. Thoughts about work popping up like that was strange.There is no basket full of thoughts which are pushed up. They just arise.

There is a pink elephant. Can you cut the thought in the middle or are you imagining the whole elephant ?

I can’t cut through the object so which means I am imagining the whole elephant

Do you choose your thoughts ? You said :yes. Then how can you be angry or unhappy ? Just, you need to choose the good thoughts and throw away the bad ones.

I don’t choose thoughts.they just arise.I am aware of the thoughts. By being aware I stop the train of thoughts from arising.
Love
Mamta

[warissem]

Hi Mamta

In my words awareness is what “Mamta” is experiencing in her day -to- day life. All experiences take place in “Mamta” .When “I” or Mamta is asleep then “Mamta”does know or aware that she is asleep when “Mamta”wakes up the story starts again from where “Mamta”fell asleep.
Senses collect information for Mamta.

We need to put down the meaning of the words we use. Awareness = being aware = knowing.
What is experienced = experiences. They could be sights, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, feelings, emotions, thoughts, …

In the basis of the definitions given above, where do you situate Mamta, yourself ?

Then thoughts decide what to do with that information.

What is a decision other than a thought ? Can a thought take a decision ?

But thoughts arise in awareness so it can’t be known through senses. Awareness is unlimited whereas senses are part of the body so they are limited.

OK.

Awareness is not calm, silent, angry or unhappy.... I am aware of calm, silence, anger, unhappiness.

Good

Earlier today I went to the kitchen sink to wash my hand. As I was washing hands I saw flower vase in the window. Then the thought came about the person who gave me flowers and my feelings about that person came in the awareness. Feelings came from the memory. So in my direct experience I saw a link between feelings and memory.

Can you describe exactly what this link looks like ? Is it a thought, a sensation, a smell, a taste, a sound, a sight ?

In my direct experience thoughts just arise at any time about anything and anywhere. I was making dinner earlier and thoughts about my work place popped up. I am on holidays at the moment and not been to work for quite sometime. Thoughts about work popping up like that was strange.There is no basket full of thoughts which are pushed up. They just arise.

Good

I don’t choose thoughts.they just arise.I am aware of the thoughts. By being aware I stop the train of thoughts from arising.

Being aware don’t stop the thoughts. You are aware all the time long, with thoughts arising or without thoughts arising. Look for yourself.

Warissem