Liberation from self

[Figs]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the self is a thought, an idea, which has been conditioned from childhood so we’ve been led to believe that there is an I here who is doing and choosing and taking action. In the absence of an idea of me in any moment the body continues to function and action continues to be taken. When believed its presence makes like personal and leads to fe

What are you looking for at LU?
I think I understand no self intellectually and can see times when there is no self here and life continues to happen – sometimes apparently better than when there is no self, although I guess I couldn’t know. What I would like is to be guided to a direct experience which will have the ‘there’s no santa clause’ effect. I’d also like help to settle the battle that sometimes appears in my mind about component parts vs system. The lung is nothing unless it’s part of the system of the body when it becomes essential to the operation of the whole. Why would it not be that there’s a self here which is nothing when observed on its own but essential when brought into the system with everything else. Or is the self more like the appendix which is part of the system but in fact useless – or hindering – to its overall operation?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect a guided conversation to involve questions to me, for me to then test honestly in my experience and for the subsequent dialogue to guide me closer and closer for times when I might be in belief or assumption. I expect understanding of the challenges we might face when we’re in this exploration so I feel supported in the exploration and not shamed or dismissed with questions that might come up as I go through.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started this journey through being a psychology-based coach. I started yoga, then meditation and I then read about the essence of Buddhism which took me into the three principles / non duality (being coached as well as watching/reading around the subject). I’ve also done some chakra / energy work.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[warissem]

Hi Figs
My name is Warissem, I jump in to help you go through the self belief.

This is YOUR inquiry. I wont give you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry. Your answer must be based on Direct experience, not given from books, nor from memory. Direct experience means : color, sound, smell, sensation.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and beliefs.

A few technical support:

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the 'Post Reply" button at the left bottom of this page.
- You can learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/

If you agree to the above and have me your guide, we can start the process.

Could you please answer the following questions : what are your expectations of change about you, about your life ?

Warissem

[Figs]

Hi Warissem, I’m so glad I came to check the forum for an update, I thought I’d get an email when a guide picked this up. Thanks for guiding me.
What I expect to change - nothing but my perspective of everything. The way it’s seen.

[warissem]

Hi Figs

welcome back to the forum. You said :

What I expect to change - nothing but my perspective of everything. The way it’s seen.

What do you mean by I, does it point to something in direct experience ?

Look carefully at this, and tell me what is coming up. Write all what is coming up, goodies and badies.

Warissem

[Figs]

I see the “I” like a collective noun. So the example of a university - the university is a concept created to bring together the lecture halls, books, students, offices, etc. So the “I” is like a collective noun for this body, the words, the feelings, the awareness, the tendencies of behaviour.

There’s no one thing that can be pointed to say “that’s me” - it’s in the coming together of these separate aspects that a university or an “I” is created - but it’s not a singular real thing that can be pointed to. Other than, like a university, you could look on a map and show the different parts and point to them and say that’s the university in this area of town. So too with us, you collect all the parts up and say this is me. All of it.

“I” is a useful shortcut instead of having to name each part every time we talk to each other.

But why does that make it illusory? My body only works as a body because it has these separate parts that come together. The separate parts are nothing on their own. Why is it not the same that there is only an “I” because all these parts have come together. Nothing on their own but something when together.

[warissem]

Hi Figs

I read your reply, it could be a good understanding of what is I. Nevertheless, we are not here to make courses of philosophy, instead we are here to LOOK at what is here now.
When you give an answer to a question, please do it from a basis of direct experience which is : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and sensations (touching). It is so easy to dissertate and speak about I, me, you, he, she, yours, ... This forum is not a social nor educational forum. The goal, your supposed goal is to go through the illusion.
Answer honestly and from direct experience to these questions :

What is I? what does it refer to in direct experience?

You have to LOOK before coming with an answer.
The answers from the mind won't help you, lost of time for both of us.

Warissem

[Figs]

I guess direct experience is a new experience here so I hope this is what you were meaning... I have looked. I first went to the body but couldn't say where "I" would be there. Then I went to the head. The only 'thing' I could find was a thought - but I can't experience that directly - other than via thought. So I can't find an I with direct experience.

[warissem]

Hi Figs

Good job. You said :

So I can't find an I with direct experience.

Is there an I subject (I can’t find) and an I object (which is not found) Give a LOOK at this and report what comes up.

Warissem

[Figs]

Definitely no object “I”. The subject “I” that’s looking and not finding seems to be awareness. I can’t see, touch, taste, etc awareness either though so does that mean there is no direct experience of awareness? Is awareness a belief?? It doesn’t look like it. It looks like there is awareness without going via a thought about awareness.

[warissem]

Hi Figs

Definitely no object “I”. The subject “I” that’s looking and not finding seems to be awareness. I can’t see, touch, taste, etc awareness either though so does that mean there is no direct experience of awareness? Is awareness a belief?? It doesn’t look like it. It looks like there is awareness without going via a thought about awareness.

Your answer came from the mind. You have to LOOK at this I. Listen to this video
https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

What comes up when it is said that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be?

Warissem

[Figs]

Love that video! Thank you. The words about “no you” are familiar intellectually. There was a small fear came up but mostly curiosity. I looked again for a subject I - I can’t find one. There was a swell of energy in my chest on checking again.

[Figs]

There is now a feeling of lightness and smiling happening 😀

[warissem]

Hi Figs

You are doing good.
Take your time before sending a reply : questions are pointers. Look at what is pointed to, go with the pointer the whole day before sending the reply. You need to digest what is seen, to be comfortable with it and deepen it.

Now we'll go further : Do you think your thoughts? Can you stop a thought in the middle?

Go along the day with this inquiry, observe the process of thought and come with what is seen.

Warissem

[Figs]

Thought has been noticed. I am not thinking my thoughts. Two things noticed - don’t know if this is too much from mind and not direct...
1. When I tried to stop a thought flow it was like the thought was building up behind a dam and had to be expressed. Like it wouldn’t go until it was allowed through.
2. A couple of times I interrupted a thought flow with the thought ‘stop thinking’ and then a new thought flow started in a different direction. Like a tributary of the river.

But “I” can’t be thinking any of this - including the ‘stop thinking’ thought that it looked like I thought on purpose Because there is no “I” to think any of it. I didn’t consciously think “now I’m going to do what Warissem said and stop my thoughts”. It just appeared.

[warissem]

Hi Figs

2. A couple of times I interrupted a thought flow with the thought ‘stop thinking’ and then a new thought flow started in a different direction. Like a tributary of the river.

You can notice that a thought cannot be interrupted, if so you will choose only good thoughts and throw away the bad ones

But “I” can’t be thinking any of this - including the ‘stop thinking’ thought that it looked like I thought on purpose

Is there a thinker of thoughts? Look at this and sink in it. Come here with what you see.