Curious

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Curious

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:45 am

Morning Nic, *checks it's still morning :)

Oh yay, feels like a test.....Okay, here goes. In this moment this is how things seem.

We come in to the world with a genetic predisposition and some mild conditioning, from being in the womb. As a baby the body moves and responds to ensure its needs are met. Reactions will happen away from pain and towards pleasure. All of this happening without any self referential thought or notion of being a human baby. No idea, I have a hand etc. All of the time life through parents and life interactions the baby is conditioned.

Eventually, as a toddler the child takes on the prevailing beliefs of the culture and begins to believe it is a seperate person but also a person that can make things happen, a human being with agency. The terrible twos show this developing notion of 'me' when life gets it wrong and doesn't line up to how I think it should be and I want to change it.

This illusion of me is identification with thoughts and feelings that give rise to a sense of autonomy, control and as a by product feelings of guilt, blame, shame, pride and attachment to outcomes (Roger Castillo describes these outcomes). The self sets off on a rollercoaster of apparently managing itself, others and the world. A constant struggle to get the ducks in line and keep them there for it to be okay.

The illusion itself is not problematic, it acts as a useful interface in this world of form and duality. The problem is the accompanying belief of autonomy. Just like a mirage is a real mirage. It is not, and never was, made of water. It will never quench thirst no matter how many hours we walk to find it. Mirages, when we know how they work, can be appreciated for what they are and no matter how realistic they look we won't spend our lives going towards them when we need water. With your help, now I see that the illusion of self doesn't mean there is no self there at all but that it's characteristics are not what I believed them to be. The self could never satisfy the desire for peace. The me isn't the autonomous person I thought it was. Rather it is thought that narrates the flow of life and takes ownership of the doing that is happening through life via the body mind. So like the mirage has it's own form of existence, the illusion of self can play out without any need to be identified with it or need to buy in to any sense of autonomy. Just another play of life.

The call to being, to the peace of true nature I believe is built in to the system. For many, conditioning leads to people trying to find peace in external objects and experiences. For some, life gives a glimpse of the peace of Being empty of experience. The body mind is led suddenly or gradually to glimpse behind the curtain and the illusion is seen for what it is, a play of thought and beliefs. I know for some they go off to the cave but for others they remain 'in life and relationship' with a different perspective. I'm assuming life continues to decondition the body mind so a deepening can happen.
I love the simplicity of the whole thing. It was only the belief in the illusion of self that made it seem so complicated :).

Feel like I've rambled so hope this is what you were looking for.

Thanks so much
Nic

That's great. No right or wrong mind, just some LU prompts to see what's what. :D

Ok, another little prompt for you delectation. :)

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


With much love,
john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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GeordieGirl
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Re: Curious

Postby GeordieGirl » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:22 pm

Hi John,

Had a client cancel, so I'll jump right in...
That's great. No right or wrong mind, just some LU prompts to see what's what. :D
Okay great, they didn't feel like your style of questions.
Ok, another little prompt for you delectation. :)

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
The word that springs to mind is simplicity. There is a relaxation, an ah yes. Not in an I got it type of way. More of the noticing of being, right here right now. A deeper sense of wellbeing and a sense that everything is just as it is meant to be. I've read and watched so much I had a tangle of beliefs that although were all pointing in the direction of being had become another set of beliefs just with a more spiritual flavour. This bespoke guidance has kept me looking at what is actually true right here, right now.

A big shift has been that I came in with the belief that the sense of Nic had to totally disappear because it was an illusion. This guidance gave me the insight that a sense of Nic is just part of the conditioning and that what actually drops away is the belief that this sense of Nic has autonomy. Through your pointing I've seen that the Nic narrative playing out is also fine just part of life unfolding but in the last few days, at least, there isn't the strong identification with it. Like I can't unsee what I've seen. It feels very exciting and also somehow the start of a lifetime of exploration.

I've also seen that the human body mind is built to react and be fully in life. So seeing through the self doesn't lead to inertia but rather an expression of life without the filter of the belief in autonomy or authorship which feels freeing.

I've set random timers on my phone, when it alerts whatever I'm doing I notice and sink deeper in to Being. Over the last few days I've noticed that sometimes when it beeps I'm already knowingly 'there' and when I'm busy in life I can sink more easily.

I'm so grateful for your intuitive guidance and the lens of simplicity you flow from.

Much love
Nicky

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Curious

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:32 pm

Hiya Nic,

Hi John,

Had a client cancel, so I'll jump right in...

Excellent! :)

That's great. No right or wrong mind, just some LU prompts to see what's what. :D
Okay great, they didn't feel like your style of questions.

Hehe.

Ok, another little prompt for you delectation. :)

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
The word that springs to mind is simplicity. There is a relaxation, an ah yes. Not in an I got it type of way. More of the noticing of being, right here right now. A deeper sense of wellbeing and a sense that everything is just as it is meant to be. I've read and watched so much I had a tangle of beliefs that although were all pointing in the direction of being had become another set of beliefs just with a more spiritual flavour. This bespoke guidance has kept me looking at what is actually true right here, right now.

Cool.

A big shift has been that I came in with the belief that the sense of Nic had to totally disappear because it was an illusion. This guidance gave me the insight that a sense of Nic is just part of the conditioning and that what actually drops away is the belief that this sense of Nic has autonomy. Through your pointing I've seen that the Nic narrative playing out is also fine just part of life unfolding but in the last few days, at least, there isn't the strong identification with it. Like I can't unsee what I've seen. It feels very exciting and also somehow the start of a lifetime of exploration.

Lovely to hear.

I've also seen that the human body mind is built to react and be fully in life. So seeing through the self doesn't lead to inertia but rather an expression of life without the filter of the belief in autonomy or authorship which feels freeing.

It is indeed freeing. :)

I've set random timers on my phone, when it alerts whatever I'm doing I notice and sink deeper in to Being. Over the last few days I've noticed that sometimes when it beeps I'm already knowingly 'there' and when I'm busy in life I can sink more easily.

What a good idea - might have to steal that. :D

I'm so grateful for your intuitive guidance and the lens of simplicity you flow from.

It's a pleasure, and thank you. :)

Ok, next LU prompt for your delectation (you may already have mentioned this above, but in case anything else shows up):

What was key in seeing this?

Much love,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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GeordieGirl
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Re: Curious

Postby GeordieGirl » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:57 pm

Hi John,

Phew, it's a hot one here today!
What was key in seeing this?
This guidance felt very bespoke and practical. As I said I'd taken on a belief that the self is an illusion and when the illusion was seen through there would be no traces of self. Therefore, anytime the self, apparently, showed up it meant something wasn't right with my understanding and in the moment experience. It was a Gordian knot that was just getting tighter and tighter. The insight that cut through the knot was what was meant by illusion in terms of the self. ie a felt sense of a self can arise but there is no autonomy to it. That was key. I think you said why would you give it a second thought if it has no autonomy, head slap...of course.

There was definitely a belief lurking that the illusion of self who wasn't who i was had some sort of agency to cause set backs and hijack things- lots of talk like this around the ego. So i had another lightbulb moment when I'd indicated that I thought the self was lurking trying to hijack things. You pointed out it has no agency...ah yes that small thing and again another chunk of misunderstanding fell away.

Also, I came to see that if a sense of self arises in the moment that is all okay, part of the unfolding of life.

I've become much clearer about the importance of noticing being and the ways in which it seem to get veiled in daily life.

Thanks again.

With love
Nic

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Curious

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:58 pm

Hiya Nic,
Hi John,

Phew, it's a hot one here today!

Gonna get hotter - so they say. :) Mind you, our tadpoles have become tiny tiny frogs, and had one in my palm about the size of a thumbnail, oh my goodness, what a magical beastie.
What was key in seeing this?
This guidance felt very bespoke and practical. As I said I'd taken on a belief that the self is an illusion and when the illusion was seen through there would be no traces of self. Therefore, anytime the self, apparently, showed up it meant something wasn't right with my understanding and in the moment experience. It was a Gordian knot that was just getting tighter and tighter. The insight that cut through the knot was what was meant by illusion in terms of the self. ie a felt sense of a self can arise but there is no autonomy to it. That was key. I think you said why would you give it a second thought if it has no autonomy, head slap...of course.

There was definitely a belief lurking that the illusion of self who wasn't who i was had some sort of agency to cause set backs and hijack things- lots of talk like this around the ego. So i had another lightbulb moment when I'd indicated that I thought the self was lurking trying to hijack things. You pointed out it has no agency...ah yes that small thing and again another chunk of misunderstanding fell away.

Also, I came to see that if a sense of self arises in the moment that is all okay, part of the unfolding of life.

I've become much clearer about the importance of noticing being and the ways in which it seem to get veiled in daily life.

Thanks Nic, really helpful to hear your perspective, helps to evolve the guiding.


Ok, another wee prompt. :D

Now, thing with this is just write like the wind and don't think. :

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Does ‘me’/‘myself’ make things happen? Is ‘me’/‘myself’ in control of anything? How does it work? What is ‘me’/‘myself’ responsible for? Give examples from experience.


Much love,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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GeordieGirl
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Re: Curious

Postby GeordieGirl » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:43 pm

Hi John,
Gonna get hotter - so they say. :) Mind you, our tadpoles have become tiny tiny frogs, and had one in my palm about the size of a thumbnail, oh my goodness, what a magical beastie.
Oh wow, that does sound magical. It must be great to watch them develop from tadpoles to frogs. I haven't got any water in my garden but I do have a couple of frogs who love to jump out at me at any opportunity :)

I've been immersed in my garden the last few days. Amazing what can be achieved when you start.
Thanks Nic, really helpful to hear your perspective, helps to evolve the guiding.
Great glad I can help in a small way.
Ok, another wee prompt. :D

Now, thing with this is just write like the wind and don't think. :

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Does ‘me’/‘myself’ make things happen? Is ‘me’/‘myself’ in control of anything? How does it work? What is ‘me’/‘myself’ responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Write like the wind, love that......it might be more of a gentle breeze with one finger on my mobile but here goes....

Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all
a feeling or sense which comes from thought after the fact. Life through genetics and constant conditioning controls the body mind but the feeling in the body mind is one of agency. That feeling is fine but it can become problematic when the feeling arises and is believed to point to agency by the me. I decided that, good me, bad me. They did that etc.

The left brain is constantly narrating what is already happening through life. The left brain is an expert at coming up with reasons why we did or didn't do something. It uses conditioning to come up with a believable story but it's all made up, a story.

A decision feels like it is being made. For example if asked 'do you want tea or coffee' it feels like a choice coffee is made. But preferences and tastes come from conditioning. The thought coffee arises but we have no control over what thought enters awareness. So the body mind is acting out it's programming and has a felt sense that it is making decisions. What is different in this seeing is that the felt sense doesn't point to a decider in the system. I see it as part of the design so the body mind doesn't feel like a puppet.

There is no 'me' there to make anything happen. There is no me to be in control. There is no me to be responsible for anything but the body mind lives in a society and society has certain rules which if the body mind, due to conditioning, breaks those rules may have consequences. If no autonomy is understood the consequences will be seen as the flow of life and guilt and regret wouldn't be taken seriously if they even arose.

How it looks to me at the moment is that it is an amazing system where life/being arises as form. The form is life unfolding in the only way it could. Nature unfolds and adapts. Body/minds are unfolding in the same way but with the added gift of awareness and a sense of agency. We get to experience things and others as seperate to us so we can be in relationship. It's so liberating to see that the sense of agency isn't pointing to an internal author it's just part of the system. Like a shadow is an effect of the light with no agency or seperate independence.



Most of my life I've struggled thinking I should be thinner, look a different way. It felt that 'me' was weak and lazy. That 'me' should be eating differently and exercising more. Social things were avoided and endless miserable diets and the next fad have been a part of my life. Seeing that this is the conditioning that life has given this body mind is huge. Thoughts are still arising and can feel like a call to action but seeing that there is no agency here has shifted things. There is more space from the experience and those urges seem more like a call to presence rather than a call to action.

It's been interesting over the last couple of weeks to be fully immersed in action from being more knowingly. Noticing the narrative when it arises and then back to flow. . I'm having to write notes as I'm forgetting things which I think is because I'm not so focused on the narrative chatter?

Recently I've signed up for a book writing course and a yoga teacher training programme. No one did that, life presented the information about the courses, the action of exploring the information, the thought I'd like to do that and the thought yes let's sign up thought this body mind. I'm noticing the flow, the synchronicity and the grace with wonder and amazement. I'm so grateful for what I've seen so far. Who's have thought it........

Thanks John
Nicky

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Curious

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:09 pm

Thanks Nic, that's great.

And finally, for now :) do you have anything to add about our inquiry?

Much love,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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GeordieGirl
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Re: Curious

Postby GeordieGirl » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:05 am

Hi John,
And finally, for now :) do you have anything to add about our inquiry?
I'd like to say again how grateful I am for your guidance. Thank you so much for giving your time freely to this exploration together. The clarity and grounding of your pointers helped keep me out of the mind stuff. It's been a joy!

Much love
Nic

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Curious

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:29 pm

Hi John,
And finally, for now :) do you have anything to add about our inquiry?
I'd like to say again how grateful I am for your guidance. Thank you so much for giving your time freely to this exploration together. The clarity and grounding of your pointers helped keep me out of the mind stuff. It's been a joy!

Much love
Nic

Thank you for the kind words Nic, it's been a pleasure.
Will be back soon.

With much love,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Curious

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:52 pm

Hiya Nicky,

Have just sent you a PM (Private message, top right of page) if you could have a look :)

Really enjoyed exploring this with you! :)

With much love,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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GeordieGirl
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Re: Curious

Postby GeordieGirl » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:48 pm

Hi John,

Fantastic! Thank you so much.

I've really enjoyed exploring with you too. I hope our paths continue to cross.

Take care.
Much love
Nicky


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