Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

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Jfore
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Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:16 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
What I understand by the statement- there is no real, inherent self is:
There is one “consciousness” that pervades everything. We are not our individual body we are the one consciousness being expressed through a human body. What I believe to be self is in fact my human mind or ego.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide to help direct me to deeper discovery of no self. I feel like I have a pretty good conceptual understanding of no self but I am lacking the knowing of no self. I am looking for likeminded discussion without judgement. Overall I am looking for a guide to help point my spiritual quest in the right direction.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
My only expectations of a guided conversation is to converse with someone that is not judging. A conversation that is directed toward the goal of realizing no self with someone that has experienced and hopefully lives in a constant state of no self. I think this is what I expect but honestly I’m not sure.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I was raised in a non practicing Christian home. After many years of greater and greater feelings of lacking something I began my spiritual seeking. I found the philosophical teachings of ancient Greeks of some help initially. Since then I have been seeking and inquiring as to the Vedic non dual forms of spirituality. I started regular meditation about a year ago and while it is not a spiritual practice I also use a breathing technique called heartmath.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:41 am

Hi Jfore,
My name is Stafford & if You're still interested in a guide, it would be my pleasure & is Jfore what You prefer to be called !?!
I would first like to explain that this isn't any kind of teaching & there isn't anything to learn !!! It's Best for us too stay in direct experience what's Actually Happening Here Now & I'll point out that as best as I can if This isn't clear !?!
I have weird work hours so it's easier for me to post around 11:30 pm & 3am if not sooner. I live in Northern Oregon so You're familiar with my time frame. You can post any time, just as long as we try & post every day if possible !!! So if this sounds good for You, We can start anytime Your Ready !?! Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford

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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:12 pm

Hi Stafford!

Yes I am ready to start. Since I signed up for a guide I have been on the site reading other threads. Also started reading one of the conversations that led to realization. I have been following along and doing the practice recommended at different points. So far I have...

Closed eyes and wrote things in the I am format then without.
Looked for gaps between thoughts a number of times.

Thanks for spending your time with me and we look forward to our conversation!

Josh

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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:13 pm

By the way you can call me Josh

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:10 am


Hi Stafford!

Yes I am ready to start. Since I signed up for a guide I have been on the site reading other threads. Also started reading one of the conversations that led to realization. I have been following along and doing the practice recommended at different points. So far I have...

Closed eyes and wrote things in the I am format then without.
Looked for gaps between thoughts a number of times.

Thanks for spending your time with me and we look forward to our conversation!

Josh
Hi Josh Great & You're Welcome it's Really my Pleasure & i Love Your Enthusiasm.
Ok so Josh We're going too keep this simple, let's take a look at Who's the one doing the practice & Seeing the gaps ?!? Reading Your first question & understanding You're somewhat familiar with This !?! I felt We can just jump in & take a Look at what's Really Happening !?! Ok Josh let me know what You See & if You need more clarification no problems !!! Thank You for Your Patience & Kindness & letting me join You on Your Journey !!! Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford ImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:47 pm

let's take a look at Who's the one doing the practice & Seeing the gaps
Ok looking for the looker...there is no looker that I have found. There are sensations while looking that are being interpreted as I, front of head, back of head and chest. When I focus on the sensations that seem to point to there being a looker the sensations seem to evaporate. I am unusable to find who.

This was my first look I will try to take a few more moments throughout the day to look for the looker!

Josh

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:24 am


let's take a look at Who's the one doing the practice & Seeing the gaps
Ok looking for the looker...there is no looker that I have found. There are sensations while looking that are being interpreted as I, front of head, back of head and chest. When I focus on the sensations that seem to point to there being a looker the sensations seem to evaporate. I am unusable to find who.

This was my first look I will try to take a few more moments throughout the day to look for the looker!

Josh
Hi Josh,
Thank You for Your Patience in waiting for my reply, I try to reply back as soon as I can, much Appreciation !!!
Yes No One Home. Good work Josh !!! Now When going through Your Day & it gets personal. Describe how that happens & if No One is Home Looking, can the personal feelings be fixed or taken away ??? Please describe how the answer You find in this makes You Feel emotionally !?! If this isn't clear just let me know & We'll clarify this up for You ?!?
Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly StaffordImageImageImageImageImageImage


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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:26 pm

Now When going through Your Day & it gets personal. Describe how that happens & if No One is Home Looking, can the personal feelings be fixed or taken away ??? Please describe how the answer You find in this makes You Feel emotionally !?!
Hello Stafford! So I have done the next practice. Closed eyes found gap between thoughts down no liquor attempted to look at how it gets personal can the personal feelings get fixed or taken away?
First though I want to say I’m not sure I completely understand what you mean by how it gets personal. I have taken this to mean emotionally caught up or something like this. Now that I’m writing this I realize it’s possible could mean simply being caught up in the “I”

1st exp. I asked my daughter to do something this turned into an argument I was angry. How does it happen? The me thoughts had certain expectations of her. When expectations were not met emotions became intense. If no one is home then there is no one to fix or take away the feeling. It is strange though that when coming to this realization the emotions seem to have left place to land and they dissipate.

2nd exp. feeling anxiety. Dealing anxiety for no apparent reason. If no one is home can it be fixed or taken away? No. After looking this time the sensations did not go away.

3rd exp. endless thought streams as I sit and attempt to look. Realize I don’t control my thoughts. Look for the looker and can’t find it. Come to the answer there is nothin “I” can do to fix or get rid of personal feelings. Emotionally I am feeling some fear and then indifference.

I will keep at this...

Josh

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:33 am


Now When going through Your Day & it gets personal. Describe how that happens & if No One is Home Looking, can the personal feelings be fixed or taken away ??? Please describe how the answer You find in this makes You Feel emotionally !?!
Hello Stafford! So I have done the next practice. Closed eyes found gap between thoughts down no liquor attempted to look at how it gets personal can the personal feelings get fixed or taken away?
First though I want to say I’m not sure I completely understand what you mean by how it gets personal. I have taken this to mean emotionally caught up or something like this. Now that I’m writing this I realize it’s possible could mean simply being caught up in the “I”

1st exp. I asked my daughter to do something this turned into an argument I was angry. How does it happen? The me thoughts had certain expectations of her. When expectations were not met emotions became intense. If no one is home then there is no one to fix or take away the feeling. It is strange though that when coming to this realization the emotions seem to have left place to land and they dissipate.

2nd exp. feeling anxiety. Dealing anxiety for no apparent reason. If no one is home can it be fixed or taken away? No. After looking this time the sensations did not go away.

3rd exp. endless thought streams as I sit and attempt to look. Realize I don’t control my thoughts. Look for the looker and can’t find it. Come to the answer there is nothin “I” can do to fix or get rid of personal feelings. Emotionally I am feeling some fear and then indifference.

I will keep at this...

Josh
Hi Josh & Yes That's Exactly what I meant, caught up in the I & Yes no one Looking or controlling emotions or thoughts. No one fixing anything & fear & indifference is normal when facing lack of control & the unknown !?!
Ok So Next let not leave anything out & look into the senses, Sight Sound & Touch & find exactly when You make them Happen or do they naturally occur on their own ?!? So After going through these exercises is there anything that stands our that You are doing as a Separate Self ?!?
Hope this made sense if not I'll definitely make it clearer. Good Work Josh & Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter
Yours Truly StaffordImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:11 am

Sight Sound & Touch & find exactly when You make them Happen or do they naturally occur on their own ?!?
Pretty instantly it is clear they all naturally occur.
So After going through these exercises is there anything that stands our that You are doing as a Separate Self ?!?
This is more difficult...I see in experience that there is no I controlling anything, more importantly my thoughts are not me and I don’t create them. There is a nagging sense that the I must be “making” some decisions. The sense of free will. This has me a bit stuck.

Thanks for your help

Josh

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:29 am


Sight Sound & Touch & find exactly when You make them Happen or do they naturally occur on their own ?!?
Pretty instantly it is clear they all naturally occur.
So After going through these exercises is there anything that stands our that You are doing as a Separate Self ?!?
This is more difficult...I see in experience that there is no I controlling anything, more importantly my thoughts are not me and I don’t create them. There is a nagging sense that the I must be “making” some decisions. The sense of free will. This has me a bit stuck.

Thanks for your help

Josh
Hi Josh,
Free Will Wow Yes, Not Lol
I Really think When that phrase was translated too English it was miss interpreted & ment Free the Will, Here's Why !?! I'm going to put this in Questions. Did You have a Choice what sex You woud Be when You Were Born or Where You Were Born? Do You have a Choice Who You going too talk to through out Your Day or What? No One is controlling the senses, so can You have Free Will over What You See Hear or Feel next? When You go to a Friends house to eat can You control how the Food is going taste or weather or not You like it or not? Ok my Friend if that's not clear enough please let me know & by the way that would also show lack of Free Will if that makes sense to You ?!? Ok Josh IT'S Going Great, Good Night &
Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly StaffordImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:08 am

Hello Stafford,

Our time difference seems to be just right for daily responses. I am on the east coast.

[/quote]
Did You have a Choice what sex You woud Be when You Were Born or Where You Were Born? Do You have a Choice Who You going too talk to through out Your Day or What? No One is controlling the senses, so can You have Free Will over What You See Hear or Feel next? When You go to a Friends house to eat can You control how the Food is going taste or weather or not You like it or not?
[/quote]

Certainly not aware of choosing anything related to my birth.

Yes no one is controlling the senses, and it is my experience that I have no control over what I see feel or hear next. What is in my line of sight I see weather I want to or not same with sound. Touch is harder for me to parse out however even if I can control where my hand or foot or body goes I cannot turn on or off the sense of touch. When I eat something I cannot not taste it if it’s horrible.

Now when you ask if I have a choice WHO I am going to talk too throughout the day I would say yes. I am not able to turn hearing off if someone is speaking too or near me however I certainly seem to make the decision to enter into conversation.?

I look forward to your response!

Josh

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:20 am


Hello Stafford,

Our time difference seems to be just right for daily responses. I am on the east coast.
Did You have a Choice what sex You woud Be when You Were Born or Where You Were Born? Do You have a Choice Who You going too talk to through out Your Day or What? No One is controlling the senses, so can You have Free Will over What You See Hear or Feel next? When You go to a Friends house to eat can You control how the Food is going taste or weather or not You like it or not?
[/quote]

Certainly not aware of choosing anything related to my birth.

Yes no one is controlling the senses, and it is my experience that I have no control over what I see feel or hear next. What is in my line of sight I see weather I want to or not same with sound. Touch is harder for me to parse out however even if I can control where my hand or foot or body goes I cannot turn on or off the sense of touch. When I eat something I cannot not taste it if it’s horrible.

Now when you ask if I have a choice WHO I am going to talk too throughout the day I would say yes. I am not able to turn hearing off if someone is speaking too or near me however I certainly seem to make the decision to enter into conversation.?

I look forward to your response!

Josh[/quote]

Hi Josh & Glad my Post time fits in Your schedule !!!
I have too Apologize for today been busy & has caught up with me & my focus isn't there. So keeping this short tonight & I'll try & post twice tomorrow !?! So now We're going try & do the opposite & I want You to Absolutely claim Every single thing that You Do Down Too the Second !!! So in other words itching scratching walking talking thinking Yawning Every single Think Leave nothing out. Find Exactly When You have Free Will Choice or is there any gap in between the Happening & Your Decisions ??? Ok Good Night & Good Morning Too You & if this doesn't make sense I'll totally explain I'm just tired Apologies & Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly Stafford ImageImageImageImageImageImage


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Jfore
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby Jfore » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:58 am

So in other words itching scratching walking talking thinking Yawning Every single Think Leave nothing out. Find Exactly When You have Free Will Choice or is there any gap in between the Happening & Your Decisions ???
I am not able to notice a gap between decisions and actions generally but I also am a bit confused how a gap would indicate no free will...

On the other hand I think I am getting a sense of what you are pointing too. I have been unable to find an actual decision point although, since I have to have an actual thought to select and then act on it seems any answered is derived from thinking about what happened and not a reflection of direct experience. Not sure I’m making sense here. Sorry for being a bit scattered with this reply!

I will have to sit with this one another day.

Much appreciation too you!

Josh

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StaffordJR
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Re: Seeking assistance along the path of realizing no self

Postby StaffordJR » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:23 am


So in other words itching scratching walking talking thinking Yawning Every single Think Leave nothing out. Find Exactly When You have Free Will Choice or is there any gap in between the Happening & Your Decisions ???
I am not able to notice a gap between decisions and actions generally but I also am a bit confused how a gap would indicate no free will...

On the other hand I think I am getting a sense of what you are pointing too. I have been unable to find an actual decision point although, since I have to have an actual thought to select and then act on it seems any answered is derived from thinking about what happened and not a reflection of direct experience. Not sure I’m making sense here. Sorry for being a bit scattered with this reply!

I will have to sit with this one another day.

Much appreciation too you!

Josh
Hi Josh Yes You're making sense & I'm going too sit on this one mostly because the day got away from me, another example of not having free will Choice Lol. This is what I Love Too do so Will continue tomorrow Here k my Friend Thank you & Sending Peace Love Life & Laughter Yours Truly StaffordImageImageImageImageImageImage


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