Synelg

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:57 am

Dear Synelg,

Please answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Synelg
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:49 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No. No self, no 'I', no 'me'. There was never an 'I'.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
It begins when language starts, when toddlers are taught for instance that this is 'their' hand, 'their' toy, 'their' name. I can see it happening right now with my neighbour's toddlers – they have absolutely no idea what the concept of time is – they just don't get it, and they don't get that 'this is MY toy' and 'that is YOUR toy' – it all has to be taught.

So the concept of a separate entity begins to form and because they now have language, thoughts begin and thoughts start producing a story of 'me' and the story gets more and more convincing, with evidence collected to support the 'story' and evidence that doesn't fit the story gets discarded. So the thoughts and the story become reality from then on – a story that gets added to with every thought, every day. The layers and layers of thoughts and stories get so thick that reality is no longer seen – that the 'I' is a useful concept for communication, but is not what it seems to be, it's not a real entity.

How it works from my experience - there is sometimes a sensation – usually in the chest, but not always, and the illusion is the thought of 'it feels like me'. But it's just a sensation, and not noticed very often these days. Then there's thoughts with the 'I' in them. And thought narration about 'me' or a narration about 'my' life. Then there's what I call the 'me-character' – the shadowy mental image of my body or parts of my body within thoughts. All together, they create and re-create the illusion of a self and stories around this self.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
The world is the same, but there's a profound knowing of the truth – that there's no 'I'. And that thoughts aren't real.

There's was some disorientation at first and a little anxiety that this would all disappear. But what has been seen cannot be unseen and the knowing so far has deepened.

The desperation to look look look, in order to see through the self has now completely stopped – it's just known. There's is now just what is and an obvious what isn't.

For much of the time, there's a calmness, contentedness, confidence. Not major mind-blowing stuff – just nice, yet profound nevertheless. It's been deepening since the last 'ding'.
Also after the last 'ding', it became clear that this is just the very beginning of this unfolding – it had been hoped that thoughts of depression might drastically alleviate, and so far, after the first few days, they actually haven't arrived or are so far nowhere near as intense, or perhaps it would be more correct to say that they just aren't seen as real any more. But if they do begin to arrive with more intensity, that's just fine – it'll be a good time to do some looking.

On one or two occasion, things have gotten a little more muddied and on those occasions, looking began again. Good practise.

Also, although it's just the beginning of the journey, and it would be lovely to talk to others on this journey, there's also now, a sort of non-desire to do anything else at all – it's all sort of self-contenting.

So how else is life different? Well, some of how it was before is a little blurry. but it seems like life was frantic before, frantic to find something, to learn something. Now it seems like that particular life is over, gone now. There's a different life now that is calmer, lived from a different perspective – an almost constant, conscious underlying knowledge that things are different, and something that was once thought to be there, isn't. There's a certain love/joy around a lot of the time.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
The last bit of seeing clearly that my name wasn't the body, wasn't a real synelg was what finally pushed it over – that had been a strange, subtle, unrecognised belief all along – there was quite a change after that – there were hours of seeing very clearly that there was no-one there at all – it felt like I could give a Tony Parson's presentation for that period of time - I wanted to run around shouting to everyone that there was no-one here!.

Getting 'stuck' on that area also opened up a new world of compassion for others – looking back on Vivien's questions and explanations that were so clear, and yet it just could NOT be seen – even her questions weren't read properly – even when she clearly pointed out that they weren't being read properly. What a mess lol! Thankyou so much for your steadfastness throughout that rubbish Vivien :).
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
There is no-one to BE responsible. Decisions don't get made – not by an 'I' anyway. Intention is just a thought. Free will, choice and control are non-existent – just ideas – things just happen according to conditioning or whatever, there's no 'I' involved. Who knows how things happen or how it works? Who cares? Life happens, good and bad, whatever.

During this inquiry, the question of 'responsibility' came up – I felt 'responsible' for looking after my old horse. I hadn't trimmed his feet for a while and felt 'responsible' for that. But then it was realised that whether or not his feet got trimmed had nothing to do with 'feeling' responsible – I did trim his feet but it just happened – depending on conditions like the weather, how 'I' felt, who knows? His feet need trimming again but there's no longer any idea of responsibility for doing that – it will happen when it happens, depending . . . there's no difference in when or whether it will happen because of responsibility – responsibility is just an idea, a concept, a thought. It's a relief.

Looking back to things that have happened in my life, many choices/decisions/actions that were thought to have been made by 'me' were actually not chosen by anyone at all. Actions were taken and then a story was made up explaining why 'I'd' had to do this or that. There is a relief around this, that nothing would have been done any differently, regrets are pointless, thoughts of suffering around some of these things is slowly beginning to unravel. And compassion around the actions of others in this area is beginning, instead of blame.
6) Anything to add?
I first began looking into spiritual 'stuff' hoping for tools to keep depression at bay. That wish has been granted, just not in the way I thought it would turn out to be. Who would've thought that there's actually no such thing as depression! All there was was the belief in a real 'I' that believed that thoughts were real. Shakes head . . .

This has been an amazing journey. Whether or not I pass through the 'gate', which doesn't seem to matter that much any more, I want to thank LU for this astonishing service to mankind and Vivien in particular – an amazing, beautiful, wise and compassionate lady. It would be fantastic to get to be half as good at helping people as she does.

Some days ago now, there was a thought of “So is this it? Just this?” And a nodding of the head – “Yep, this is it. Just this”. Laughter. Love. Huge gratitude.

It's very, very cool.

xxx

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:13 am

Dear Synelg,

Thank you for your beautiful replies :) I am going to get other guides to have a look at the thread to ensure that I have covered everything and that my pointing has been clear. This may take a few days. Sometimes, not always, the other guides may have further questions which I will bring to you.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Synelg

Postby Vivien » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:18 am

Dear Synelg,

There are no further questions for you. Congratulations for seeing through the self and for your persistent looking. It has been a pleasure to explore the concept of the separate self with you. Thank you for being open and willing to look.

Keep an eye out for an email notification notifying you of a PM (private message) from the forum inviting you to join our aftercare groups on Facebook. If you don't receive an email notification, you can access your PM's from the forum once you have logged in. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions via private message here on the forum, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

PS: One of the guides mentioned if depression seems to return, it may not be enough to rely on self enquiry alone, but to start looking at other available options (such as counselling, exercise, better diet or whatever). And if depression returns it won't be because no self 'doesn't work any more'.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Synelg
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: Synelg

Postby Synelg » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Hi Vivien.

I'm doing really well. You're guiding has made a massive impact – particularly around thoughts not being real. So far, apart from the first few days after the shift – when a few thoughts and moments came up, things have continued to go deeper. No real yo-yoing yet. Still early days of course.

I appreciate the confirming guide's advice about depression, counselling, diet and exercise etc. I do know all about that – many years of 'battling' (so funny now) depression taught me lots about that stuff. I was already good when I began LU – I would not have started the inquiry unless I'd known I was going to be ok, and having now heard and read other guides' ideas on a stronger warning to go on the LU site – I would probably agree that a stronger warning would not hurt anything and could help to deter people with depression, or who may be on drugs for depression – at the moment, I don't believe they should attempt the inquiry until they've recovered and are off the drugs and are stable. Perhaps one enlightened day, depressed people COULD do a modified inquiry with the support of their psychotherapist – I think this is beginning to happen in the world already yes?

However, to me now, it would seem to be almost impossible to be 'depressed' after your thorough guiding about thoughts not being real. I know LU is first and foremost about seeing through the illusion of the separate self, but I feel I got SO much more than that out of the guiding because of the thoroughness of the guiding that the contents of thought are never real. I'm so happy that my journey was so long because I got to learn so much, so much more thoroughly.

So far, since the shift, when any sort of 'negative' thought comes up, there's an automatic new thought that says “it's just a thought”. And the 'negative' thought disappears immediately. In fact SO immediately as the days go on that many of the thoughts get cut off within a split second of them arising, and particularly in the last few days, although I've been ready to 'welcome' any sensation that comes up with such thoughts, they just haven't come up at all. Zero, zilch, nada. Yet prior to this, my first thought most mornings would be “what's the point?”, accompanied by sensations. Now my first thought is more like “I feel like crap – where's the coffee” – in fact that's rubbish too – I just feel crappy 'morning' sensations with NO thoughts at all (I so detest cheerful 'morning' people lol) I hope this isn't spiritual bypassing – but 'I' don't cut the thoughts off, they just get cut off or don't come up at all. So for a reasonably 'stable' person, if the guiding is thorough, I'd currently say that the guiding absolutely works for depression.

Anyway, I'm very keen to learn to guide, and have joined the LU Guide Central group and am studying all the documents. All the way through my inquiry, I studied other threads and other guides, trying to figure out what I would ask if I were that particular guide. I still come back to your thorough DE questions being what I would like to do. I would appreciate any recommendations from you how else to proceed from here Vivien, either here, via PM, Messenger, or wherever on LU it's more appropriate.

I still feel so much gratitude for this amazing gift you have given me Vivien.
Much love. xx


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests