Liberation

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:41 am

Is it ?
:)
You have looked almost everywhere and could you find this self/you anywhere?
If not
Is it scary as that thought say ?
It feels great to learn how to look at experience like this. Not scary at all. Mingboggling yes, but not daunting.
I can’t find this self anywhere. But I really need to practice and decondition how I see reality.

Thank you,
Suzanne
Don't worry we will go on until you tell me a big fat "NO" that a self / you exist.
Let's look more..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:47 am

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling. There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labelled ‘ceiling’.

Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling.
Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look.
Keep the eyes shut.

What do you notice?
Is there a body?
Is there a ceiling?
Is there a distance?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:11 pm

What do you notice?
Is there a body?
Is there a ceiling?
Is there a distance?
Hello Adil,
When my eyes are open, I see body and ceiling and there’s a thought that the two are separated by distance (sight +thought)

When the eyes are closed however, I notice that there are sensations and a visual memory of the ceiling in the mind. But as these fade, I notice that there is nothing really, but the remaining sensations and thoughts that pop about ceiling and other subjects.

Metta,
Suzanne

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:14 pm

distance, like time, is another form of measurement convenient for the functional world.

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:45 pm

What do you notice?
Is there a body?
Is there a ceiling?
Is there a distance?
Hello Adil,
When my eyes are open, I see body and ceiling and there’s a thought that the two are separated by distance (sight +thought)

When the eyes are closed however, I notice that there are sensations and a visual memory of the ceiling in the mind. But as these fade, I notice that there is nothing really, but the remaining sensations and thoughts that pop about ceiling and other subjects.

Metta,
Suzanne
Brilliant Looking Suzanne
Thank you
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:52 pm

let's examine the idea of free will..
Look back into the story of your life and find one important decision that you made.
It can be anything..Deciding to get married, choosing your school..choosing to buy a car..anything
Then ask this-
Could you have made a different decision at given circumstances?
Was that the best and only way to proceed?
Was there any free will involved, as in could you choose independently of situation? Was it you that made a choice or situation made you take the only way possible?
Can you choose something that is not "right"?

Write what you notice doing this exercise. Then bring focus to here & now. Can anything be different than what it already is? How do you know that?
What is that made the choose to be here now? Does it make a difference if you think that you made the choice to be here or not?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:04 pm

let's examine the idea of free will..
Look back into the story of your life and find one important decision that you made.
It can be anything..Deciding to get married, choosing your school..choosing to buy a car..anything
Then ask this-
Could you have made a different decision at given circumstances?>> yes I could have decided otherwise and not get married.
Was that the best and only way to proceed? >> no it wasn’t. We could have continued to live together unmarried.
It was the best decision because I was in love at the time. I was what I wanted at the time.
Was there any free will involved, as in could you choose independently of situation? >>yes i could choose freely. I could have said no and we would have stayed together but not married.
Was it you that made a choice or situation made you take the only way possible? >>I chose to respond yes. However, I didn’t control the asking.
Can you choose something that is not "right"?>> sure! But things always sort themselves out in the end.

Write what you notice doing this exercise. Then bring focus to here & now. Can anything be different than what it already is? How do you know that? >> I know that because by the time that I’ve realized they happened, they are already passed.
What is that made the choose to be here now?>> I have no idea. Really.
Does it make a difference if you think that you made the choice to be here or not?>> I see! No at all! How come my example to get married doesn’t seem to fit? It’s such a personal decision. The circumstances may be out of my control, but I did say yes.

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:57 am

Hello Suzanne,
Yes I could have decided otherwise and not get married.
How do you know this ?
Does thinking "it could be any different change what has happened ?

yes i could choose freely. I could have said no and we would have stayed together but not married.
Are you sure ?
How do you know this ?
Could anything happen in the 'seemingly past' be any different ?

The circumstances may be out of my control, but I did say yes.

Was your "yes" anything out of those "out of control circumstances ?

Look again!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:06 pm

Hello,
Let’s look some more:
Yes I could have decided otherwise and not get married.
How do you know this ?
Does thinking "it could be any different change what has happened ?
If I return to direct actual experience to look clearly, I see that thinking (content of thought process) about the different possibilities of the decision at the time did not change the reality of what actually happened. However, in the functional world, it’s best to think about possilities and their potential consequences.
Even if there’s no way of knowing really.

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:15 pm

yes i could choose freely. I could have said no and we would have stayed together but not married.
Are you sure ?
How do you know this ?
Could anything happen in the 'seemingly past' be any different ?
There’s no way of knowing that, so I can’t be sure. There are only possibilities. Anything could’ve happened really. And no, things that happened in the past cannot be different when you evoke them in the present. That’s simply impossible.

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:20 pm

The circumstances may be out of my control, but I did say yes.

Was your "yes" anything out of those "out of control circumstances ?
I get it, if content of thoughts aren’t part of DE, then, thinking about a decision won’t change a thing. What happens, happens. I don’t control what happens by thinking.

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:59 pm

Hello,
Let’s look some more:
Yes I could have decided otherwise and not get married.
How do you know this ?
Does thinking "it could be any different change what has happened ?
If I return to direct actual experience to look clearly, I see that thinking (content of thought process) about the different possibilities of the decision at the time did not change the reality of what actually happened. However, in the functional world, it’s best to think about possilities and their potential consequences.
Even if there’s no way of knowing really.
yes. only by thinking you may know that this would be any different. and you will never know this.
we are interested in what is here and now and real.
so there is no any way to make this any different.
only a thought says "this could be different than it already is"
which is nothing.
just a thought.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:00 pm

yes i could choose freely. I could have said no and we would have stayed together but not married.
Are you sure ?
How do you know this ?
Could anything happen in the 'seemingly past' be any different ?
There’s no way of knowing that, so I can’t be sure. There are only possibilities. Anything could’ve happened really. And no, things that happened in the past cannot be different when you evoke them in the present. That’s simply impossible.
Sure it is impossible.
There is only what is happening
What is the actual experience of "possibilites" ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:03 pm

The circumstances may be out of my control, but I did say yes.

Was your "yes" anything out of those "out of control circumstances ?
I get it, if content of thoughts aren’t part of DE, then, thinking about a decision won’t change a thing. What happens, happens. I don’t control what happens by thinking.
Yes. Sure Suzanne.

But you say "if.."
Can you see clearly that why thought content is not reliable ? How it is relative..
Can you really trust thought ?
Isn't it really "not" a direct experience ?
and please look
is there really a free will ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:39 pm

What is the actual experience of "possibilites" ?
It’s thought.


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